For format of the CSI ten-ball was complete rubbish.

[jay helfert]

Like it or not, we've evolved into an 'instant gratification', on-demand species, with short attention spans. We live inside the corridors of a constant virtual mall, and every ten feet something new is vying for our attention. This shift becomes even more profound with each new generation.

Sports in general are continually tweaking anything and everything to captivate the viewing masses. Pool needs to adapt and catch up. This format, with it's short, high-intensity races, and the finality of the shoot-out, is finally bringing audiences into the 21st century.

And lookout when a real-time wagering app becomes available for this format. The fast-paced action and match turnover is tailor made for gambling.

Sorry naysayers but I'm afraid it's not going anywhere.

I guess I missed it when they changed golf from 18 to 6 holes and it ended with a putting contest. Or a set in tennis was now a race to 2 and they traded serves to break a tie. I also missed the five frame bowling tournament on TV with the single ball roll off at the ten ball. I've got to get out of my ten foot circle so I can watch all these exciting new events.

 

[APA Operator]

I guess I missed it when they changed golf from 18 to 6 holes and it ended with a putting contest. Or a set in tennis was now a race to 2 and they traded serves to break a tie. I also missed the five frame bowling tournament on TV with the single ball roll off at the ten ball. I've got to get out of my ten foot circle so I can watch all these exciting new events.

None of these has lengthened matches, either. Pool used to be races to 7, not 11 or more. That said, I still find a bowling or a tennis match unwatchable, and I suspect I wouldn't sit through a golf telecast if they just showed one player all day. I still rarely sit through a whole broadcast, but I find that golf does hold my interest for the small amount of free time that I can dedicate to it. I think that's because of the number of cameras they use and the number of golfers they follow, and because the courses have evolved to get tougher as the players and equipment have evolved. Today's pro golfers would destroy the courses of yesteryear. Contrast that to pool, where playing conditions have changed over time to make the game easier (IMO). The tables have to be perfectly level and every rail identical and the cloth stretched just right, or players will start complaining about bad tables and blaming them for their failures. In golf, when a ball bounces in an unexpected direction it's an unlucky bounce and when it takes an unexpected turn on the green it's the golfer's failure to read the green properly. In pool those are all blamed on the table. Oh, and golf often boils down to a putting contest at the end. If Rahm makes one of those putts on the last two holes, he might be 10M richer today.

If you want the cream to rise to the top, there's a much better way to do it than longer races. Vary the table conditions to make them tougher and less straightforwardly predictable (i.e., one can improve their ability to predict outcomes and it's not all about execution). If you want pool to be more watchable, put a couple of cameras on every table in the room and show only the most interesting shots (some live, some recorded like golf), not the whole boring predictable match.

 

[hang-the-9]

The format is for the fans, not the players. The fans are the only way the sport has a chance of growing.

<== This fans LIKES this format quite a bit. Matches are more exciting. Matches don't drag on forever. There is always a chance for an upset. To each his own

What fans? Only people that watch are the hardcore pool players that even know the event is happening, and most don't like silly gimmiky formats. There are a ton of things that is tried "for the fans" but there are no fans that watch pool no matter what is done since they have no idea there is anything to even watch unless you follow the sport and forums like this. I told a few people, at a pool hall, my son entered the US Open, most thought I was talking about golf LOL

Changing rules and formats for what a non-existent audience may or may not like does no good at all.

 

[realkingcobra]

What fans? Only people that watch are the hardcore pool players that even know the event is happening, and most don't like silly gimmiky formats. There are a ton of things that is tried "for the fans" but there are no fans that watch pool no matter what is done since they have no idea there is anything to even watch unless you follow the sport and forums like this. I told a few people, at a pool hall, my son entered the US Open, most thought I was talking about golf LOL

Changing rules and formats for what a non-existent audience may or may not like does no good at all.

All these gimmick ideas on how to fix pool, how to get the viewing audience involved, how to handicap the Pro's so the amateurs have a chance to win some money, and feel good about themselves because they FINALLY beat a Pro, have NOT worked, has NEVER worked, and NEVER will work!

Abba Eban who was an Israeli politician and diplomat. In March 1967 Eban visited Japan, and the New York Times reported on a remark that he made: 1

Commenting that the passage of time offered the best hope of an end to the problems of Israel and her neighbors, he said: “Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources.

What that means is as Americans we can be counted on to do all the WRONG things first, before we finally get it right!!!

PRO players playing against PRO players ONLY, and getting PAID is the TRUE direction this sport need to take!

What does it take to make that happen? A lot of planning, work, patience, persistent, and dedication to ONE outcome! It don't and WON'T happen over night, and will NEVER happen if someone don't pursue those goals, like a bulldog with a bone in its mouth!!

There's a lot of changes that must be made in order for this to happen, to many to list here, but, my last meeting to fix this sport is on Thursday, with the advertising agency in Seattle to bring them on-board with the non-profit leadership, which represents the organization and leadership needed to move forward.

Do I care if most of you don't support my goals, not really. Reason being, not ONE of you is lifting a single finger to straighten it out, NOT ONE.

But that's ok with me, because I know what I'm doing, and I don't need anyone's approval, but once I'm done, this sport will benefit from my efforts, and so will all of you as viewers, though I feel many of you don't deserve it!

1) PRO players should NOT have to pay entry fees to support the event winners!

2)PRO players should at a minimum get paid enough money in a first round loss to cover all their travel, hotel, and food expenses to every event they play in, as they ARE providing ENTERTAINMENT to YOU viewers, which is their JOB!

3) PRO players should NEVER have to play in events which include amateurs just to make a living, that should be an OPTION to them, BUT amateurs should NEVER be allowed to play against the PRO'S in PRO only events just because they can afford to pay an entry fee, therefore they have the RIGHT to play against the PRO'S!

4) Streamed events MUST include live streaming 8 9ft tables live, not ONE TV table, then viewers have the CHOICE of who they want to watch and follow, NOT get stuck watching TWO players they don't care to watch!

5) All matches MUST start on time, and END on time, so the VIEWERS can plan THEIR viewing time based on who and when their favorite players are playing, as they have busy schedules as well.

6) The viewing audience. MUST have the option to view any event they CAN'T watch, at a later time frame, as to still be able to watch the live event they missed watching, and that REQUIRES a subscription VOD, like the NETFLIX OF POOL events!

 

[jay helfert]

None of these has lengthened matches, either. Pool used to be races to 7, not 11 or more. That said, I still find a bowling or a tennis match unwatchable, and I suspect I wouldn't sit through a golf telecast if they just showed one player all day. I still rarely sit through a whole broadcast, but I find that golf does hold my interest for the small amount of free time that I can dedicate to it. I think that's because of the number of cameras they use and the number of golfers they follow, and because the courses have evolved to get tougher as the players and equipment have evolved. Today's pro golfers would destroy the courses of yesteryear. Contrast that to pool, where playing conditions have changed over time to make the game easier (IMO). The tables have to be perfectly level and every rail identical and the cloth stretched just right, or players will start complaining about bad tables and blaming them for their failures. In golf, when a ball bounces in an unexpected direction it's an unlucky bounce and when it takes an unexpected turn on the green it's the golfer's failure to read the green properly. In pool those are all blamed on the table. Oh, and golf often boils down to a putting contest at the end. If Rahm makes one of those putts on the last two holes, he might be 10M richer today.

If you want the cream to rise to the top, there's a much better way to do it than longer races. Vary the table conditions to make them tougher and less straightforwardly predictable (i.e., one can improve their ability to predict outcomes and it's not all about execution). If you want pool to be more watchable, put a couple of cameras on every table in the room and show only the most interesting shots (some live, some recorded like golf), not the whole boring predictable match.

Fyi, the biggest 9-Ball tournaments beginning in the 1960's (Johnston City and the Stardust) and continuing to present day were ALL races to 11. That has been the "gold standard" for major 9-Ball tournaments for over fifty years.

As far as the rest if your argument I'm not sure why pool tables shouldn't play as uniformly as humanly possible. My opinion is that a level playing field insures the best competition. Isn't this exactly what the powers that be dictate for a regulation tennis court, basketball court or even a ping pong table. The test is not about who can overcome adverse conditions, but who has the superior skills at playing their respective sport.

 

[JessEm]

Nothing wrong with different events varying the format. Unless, perhaps, something comes along that really sticks. A lot of people liked this format (and some did not. Mostly staunch traditionalists it seems, and that's fine too). But nobody is being forced to watch something they don't like.

The notion that "such & such" has been a certain way for 60 years and therefore shouldn't be tweaked, is actually an argument against if it isn't working.

But, again, nothing wrong with mixing in a different format. It's almost like some are afraid it might catch on? Hmmm... And other times we just like bitching about things.

 

[Positively Ralf]

All these gimmick ideas on how to fix pool, how to get the viewing audience involved, how to handicap the Pro's so the amateurs have a chance to win some money, and feel good about themselves because they FINALLY beat a Pro, have NOT worked, has NEVER worked, and NEVER will work!

Abba Eban who was an Israeli politician and diplomat. In March 1967 Eban visited Japan, and the New York Times reported on a remark that he made: 1

Commenting that the passage of time offered the best hope of an end to the problems of Israel and her neighbors, he said: “Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources.

What that means is as Americans we can be counted on to do all the WRONG things first, before we finally get it right!!!

PRO players playing against PRO players ONLY, and getting PAID is the TRUE direction this sport need to take!

What does it take to make that happen? A lot of planning, work, patience, persistent, and dedication to ONE outcome! It don't and WON'T happen over night, and will NEVER happen if someone don't pursue those goals, like a bulldog with a bone in its mouth!!

There's a lot of changes that must be made in order for this to happen, to many to list here, but, my last meeting to fix this sport is on Thursday, with the advertising agency in Seattle to bring them on-board with the non-profit leadership, which represents the organization and leadership needed to move forward.

Do I care if most of you don't support my goals, not really. Reason being, not ONE of you is lifting a single finger to straighten it out, NOT ONE.

But that's ok with me, because I know what I'm doing, and I don't need anyone's approval, but once I'm done, this sport will benefit from my efforts, and so will all of you as viewers, though I feel many of you don't deserve it!

1) PRO players should NOT have to pay entry fees to support the event winners!

2)PRO players should at a minimum get paid enough money in a first round loss to cover all their travel, hotel, and food expenses to every event they play in, as they ARE providing ENTERTAINMENT to YOU viewers, which is their JOB!

3) PRO players should NEVER have to play in events which include amateurs just to make a living, that should be an OPTION to them, BUT amateurs should NEVER be allowed to play against the PRO'S in PRO only events just because they can afford to pay an entry fee, therefore they have the RIGHT to play against the PRO'S!

4) Streamed events MUST include live streaming 8 9ft tables live, not ONE TV table, then viewers have the CHOICE of who they want to watch and follow, NOT get stuck watching TWO players they don't care to watch!

5) All matches MUST start on time, and END on time, so the VIEWERS can plan THEIR viewing time based on who and when their favorite players are playing, as they have busy schedules as well.

6) The viewing audience. MUST have the option to view any event they CAN'T watch, at a later time frame, as to still be able to watch the live event they missed watching, and that REQUIRES a subscription VOD, like the NETFLIX OF POOL events!

I have no idea what your plans are but you have my support. Anything is better than nothing. Good luck.

 

[realkingcobra]

A lot of people liked this format (and some did not.

Got a number to go along with that " a lot of people liked"? Because when people say things like that I figure they know how many people they're talking about, unless they're just blowing smoke!!!

 

[Fatboy]

I guess I missed it when they changed golf from 18 to 6 holes and it ended with a putting contest. Or a set in tennis was now a race to 2 and they traded serves to break a tie. I also missed the five frame bowling tournament on TV with the single ball roll off at the ten ball. I've got to get out of my ten foot circle so I can watch all these exciting new events.

You forgot corn hole!!! How can you forgot about cornhole.


is corn hole one or two words?

best
fatboy

 

[Fatboy]

Fyi, the biggest 9-Ball tournaments beginning in the 1960's (Johnston City and the Stardust) and continuing to present day were ALL races to 11. That has been the "gold standard" for major 9-Ball tournaments for over fifty years.

As far as the rest if your argument I'm not sure why pool tables shouldn't play as uniformly as humanly possible. My opinion is that a level playing field insures the best competition. Isn't this exactly what the powers that be dictate for a regulation tennis court, basketball court or even a ping pong table. The test is not about who can overcome adverse conditions, but who has the superior skills at playing their respective sport.

Should be for gambling as well. Some misguided peopl changed the color of the damned balls and messed with the race length. Don’t get me started on the color of the cloth.

Races to 1200 with balls that look like Frutty Pebbles on blue tables…….

 

[realkingcobra]

You forgot corn hole!!! How can you forgot about cornhole.


is corn hole one or two words?

best
fatboy

Depends on where, and who's saying it

 

[APA Operator]

As far as the rest if your argument I'm not sure why pool tables shouldn't play as uniformly as humanly possible. My opinion is that a level playing field insures the best competition. Isn't this exactly what the powers that be dictate for a regulation tennis court, basketball court or even a ping pong table. The test is not about who can overcome adverse conditions, but who has the superior skills at playing their respective sport.

A level playing field ensures the best competition? What exactly does that mean? The term "level playing field" alludes to sports that are played end-to-end (like tennis, basketball, or even ping pong) where a slope would be an advantage to one side or the other. Leveling the playing field refers to taking away that advantage and ensures the fairest competition (I don't know what you mean by "best"). Is that what you mean? If so, I don't think it applies to sports like pool or golf. There is no advantage to take away, so the competition is already fair. No leveling is needed. If you meant something else, please explain.

You're choice of the term "overcome adverse conditions" is interesting, and it exemplifies one of the points I was making. If we instead said "adjust to different conditions", it would not appear undesirable, and it might be seen as part of someone's superior skills. But in the pool world, anything non-uniform is undesirable. I don't know why that has to be. When you find a table that's not level, don't call the mechanic over to "fix" it right away. Use that knowledge to create shots that you can't shoot on a level table. Is that not a demonstration of skill?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Got a number to go along with that " a lot of people liked"? Because when people say things like that I figure they know how many people they're talking about, unless they're just blowing smoke!!!

Without actually counting, I would say half of the people just on this thread liked it, or had no problem with it, or were indifferent

 

[Icon of Sin]

3) PRO players should NEVER have to play in events which include amateurs just to make a living, that should be an OPTION to them, BUT amateurs should NEVER be allowed to play against the PRO'S in PRO only events just because they can afford to pay an entry fee, therefore they have the RIGHT to play against the PRO'S!

So what defines a Pro Pool Player?

Every year there are questionables in the Amateur Open at the Expo. There are "Amateurs" that have sponsors in that tournament as well.

In a pro only event, what criteria defines a Professional Pool Player?

 

[buckshotshoey]

So what defines a Pro Pool Player?

Every year there are questionables in the Amateur Open at the Expo. There are "Amateurs" that have sponsors in that tournament as well.

In a pro only event, what criteria defines a Professional Pool Player?

Maybe use Dr Dave's chart as a baseline?

 

[realkingcobra]

Maybe use Dr Dave's chart as a baseline?

View attachment 609215

How about a Fargo rate of over 775?

 

[realkingcobra]

Without actually counting, I would say half of the people just on this thread liked it, or had no problem with it, or were indifferent

So, about 10 people then?

 

[buckshotshoey]

So, about 10 people then?

And roughly 7 or so that didnt like it. Again, didnt actually count. Why dont you start a poll if you want to know. But it will never include the casual viewers that don't bother getting on sites like these.

 

[buckshotshoey]

How about a Fargo rate of over 775?

Or maybe a little lower. I don't see why you couldn't include a few of the top shortstops and semi-pros. 730 maybe?

And I think you probably mention this before, but I think what needs to be done is there has to be a single rating system. One system for the entire world. I think Fargo rate could do that.

 

[realkingcobra]

And roughly, 7 or so that didnt like it. Again, didnt actually count. Why dont you start a poll if you want to know. But it will never include the casual viewers that don't bother getting on sites like these.

You're assuming the only viewers are Americans!