For those who have followed the game for decades

[pdcue]

Pool was huge over 100 years ago, with crowds of thousands watching matches.

Movies contributed to giving pool a bad name in the 1940's and '50s.

The biggest single boost to pool since then was the introduction of the bar table in the '60s (remember the opening scene in "The Hustler"?). Small tables made the game available to millions.

There were at least three national pool league organizations going strong long before "The Color of Money" (I'd been playing in pool leagues for 23 years by 1988).

Reasons pool has not done as well in recent years?

League organizations with crazy rules and lousy pay-outs.

TV viewers prefer violence in their sports.

The big money-makers in the pool industry have not given back their fair share.

BILLIARD ESTABLISHMENT OWNERS CATER TO DRUNKS AND DON'T SUPPORT THE GAME.

Not to be too 'nit pickerish' but, the Hustler opening was centered on a pool table
in a bar, not a "bar table"

Dale

 

[pdcue]

Pool rooms were illegal n Texas when the Hustler came out. They had to be private
clubs. They sprang up everywhere. I had over 20 membership cards from Dallas
clubs alone. The 60s,70s had by far the most easy action. Everyone wanted to
be like Paul Newman. People who could not hit the end rail gambled. At the Cotton
Palace I can think of 20 or so full time pool hustlers, and that is just one place. The
place was so packed with players,stake horses, sweaters, etc you literally had to
part the crowd to shoot. That's just one place, every pool room had them.
Everyone wanted to live a little bit on the edge.
Up scale rooms started, with restaurants, dress codes, no gambling, cussing, ladies
welcome, blah, blah, blah. They all went busted. Some players would hit the bars
and there would be 20 quarters lined up with everyone gambling, play until 2;00 am
when they closed then head for some all night pool room. It slowly started dying out
as cheap tournaments, and leagues started. To get any real competition you had to
gamble, but then the easy scores (the ones that kept money in your pocket) could
get their play out playing all night a cheap tournament, or league. Then TCOM gave
it a boost but for me it was never like the 60s and 70s. I like a lot of the old timers
miss those times. You were one of those guys that the nice people whispered about
you were part of something very unique, living on your wits, flush one day busted
the next with no worries, you knew you pump right back up,or move back in with
mom. Seems like so many today want to make pool a true gentlemen game, but
that was tried when it was at its peak and it didn't work and it never will. I don't
think pool would have boomed if Paul Newman wearing a bowling shirt, leaped from
his chair after Fats busted him, ran over and gave him a hardy hand shake (with
eye contact) and told him what a great match, and what a truly fine fellow he was.
Naw, he passed out drunk, falling on the floor, probably in his own waste, Yeah
and we loved it.
jack

Best post of the year... make that several years.

Dale(longin for the good ol days)

 

[Runner]

IMO, the 50's through the early 70's was a key time frame for great pool, including the "Hustler" boost. COM added a boost, and it came out in '86, not the '70's. Agreed about the early Sands tournaments, Rempe, Buddy, Nicky... and then Earl was shooting fireballs, playing unreal 9 ball. Then.... Efren Reyes.

Camel Tour? Uhhh, Mackey took the money and ran. Some players never got paid, I think Parica confronted Mackey until he got paid... there's some threads about all that... I think that put the knock on ESPN's involvement.

Oh, and the opening bar scene in the Hustler ain't a bar box:grin-square:

 

[book collector]

.
Have you been out to a first class golf course lately?
People out there are meeting great people, discussing the game and business, and enjoying the friends they meet.
And most are gambling like crazy.
But..........golf courses are not seedy dumps filled with lowlifes, thieves, people just out of prison (or on the way), and bums like Minnesota Fats Wanderone
I believe his book "The Bank Shot and Other Great Robberies" set the stage for the end of pool. Bragging and telling absurd lies about being a thief and a con man just does not appeal to most people. They may watch it, but they're not eager to get in on it.
It's not the gambling that's wrong with pool......it's the trash who hang around pool rooms. I know of what I speak.....I used to be one of them, long, long ago.
Just my observations...flame away.

My experience has been exactly the opposite.
I have 100s of stories about players from the 1820s to present day.
Some are hilarious, others are pretty dark.
Most people like a good story no matter what the outcome, but most people prefer to hear about a hustle or a con.There is a really funny story of a British champion named Melbourne Inman.
He was very short (under 5 feet} but had an unusually large head.
He had gotten drunk and drove his car thru a park and terrorized some picnickers and the police caught him.
When he goes to court, the judge has heard all the evil this guy has done to the poor civilians and is ready to pass judgement.
Inman is on the other side of a table facing the judge.
In an obviously irritated voice the judge tells Inman to, "stand sir " while the sentence is being read!
Inman yells back in a not so nice voice "I am standing"!
The reporter said it took quite a while for them to get everyone in the courtroom to stop laughing.

 

[pdcue]

My experience has been exactly the opposite.
I have 100s of stories about players from the 1820s to present day.
Some are hilarious, others are pretty dark.
Most people like a good story no matter what the outcome, but most people prefer to hear about a hustle or a con.There is a really funny story of a British champion named Melbourne Inman.
He was very short (under 5 feet} but had an unusually large head.
He had gotten drunk and drove his car thru a park and terrorized some picnickers and the police caught him.
When he goes to court, the judge has heard all the evil this guy has done to the poor civilians and is ready to pass judgement.
Inman is on the other side of a table facing the judge.
In an obviously irritated voice the judge tells Inman to, "stand sir " while the sentence is being read!
Inman yells back in a not so nice voice "I am standing"!
The reporter said it took quite a while for them to get everyone in the courtroom to stop laughing.

+1

If there is one thing about Pool that has been demonstrated beyond question, it is that the
general public has zero interest in watching well behaved, expert players competing
while showing high degrees of skill - or hearing about them

Dale(well behaved expert)

 

[Donny Lutz]

thanks

I am absolutely stating there is no such thing as a "fair share"!
I owe you nothing. And I have zero guilt or shame about it.
You owe me nothing either.
If a rich person WANTS to give away some money, it's his/her business and none of yours or mine.
Again, I keep asking you and you keep running..... WHO DECIDES WHAT IS A "FAIR SHARE"? Some government agency or the "Fair Share Police"..??
You sound like one of those "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" guys.

Thank you for your opinion. Obviously you must be correct because you type in red.

You sound like the folks who think the wealthy shouldn't even pay taxes...

 

[SJDinPHX]

+1

If there is one thing about Pool that has been demonstrated beyond question, it is that the
general public has zero interest in watching well behaved, expert players competing
while showing high degrees of skill - or hearing about them

Dale(well behaved expert)

I don't think its as much the general public has no interest in watching a skillful pool contest. I believe its more that there is no real rooting interest!..For all its other (many) faults, Bonus Ball had one good idea..The inclusion of local, or area representation, as almost all other sports rely on.. Pool has never been blessed with 'household names' that were instantly recognizable by anyone but pool addicts. Willie Hoppe, Mosconi and Minnesota Fats, are the only ones that come to mind, and most people cannot even tell you why they instantly associate them with pool.

Even avid league player's, or youngsters who become enamored with the game and its challenges, cannot name any of the best players in the world today..Until such time as there is a governing body, dedicated to promoting the game/sport, and its participants..I can't see that ever changing! Thanks largely to Mr.Barry Hearne's efforts and much larger prize funds, snooker has enjoyed popular acceptance in the UK..

Pool's only moderately successful venture in that area, (also due to his efforts) is the Mosconi Cup..People will attend that event, if only to pull for their 'home team' or country! They then begin to know the player's, and develop a strong 'rooting' interest!..Without that equation, most other games would be just like pool.. Very few people can compete professionally in those other sports either, but they enjoy watching the skill involved in playing them!

 

[book collector]

I don't think its as much the general public has no interest in watching a skillful pool contest. I believe its more that there is no real rooting interest!..For all its other (many) faults, Bonus Ball had one good idea..The inclusion of local, or area representation, as almost all other sports rely on.. Pool has never been blessed with 'household names' that were instantly recognizable by anyone but pool addicts. Willie Hoppe, Mosconi and Minnesota Fats, are the only ones that come to mind, and most people cannot even tell you why they instantly associate them with pool.

Even avid league player's, or youngsters who become enamored with the game and its challenges, cannot name any of the best players in the world today..Until such time as there is a governing body, dedicated to promoting the game/sport, and its participants..I can't see that ever changing! Thanks largely to Mr.Barry Hearne's efforts and much larger prize funds, snooker has enjoyed popular acceptance in the UK..

Pool's only moderately successful venture in that area, (also due to his efforts) is the Mosconi Cup..People will attend that event, if only to pull for their 'home team' or country! They then begin to know the player's, and develop a strong 'rooting' interest!..Without that equation, most other games would be just like pool.. Very few people can compete professionally in those other sports either, but they enjoy watching the skill involved in playing them!

I used to ask everyone I met outside of a poolroom to name 3 pool players.
Fats was number 1 by a huge margin, Mosconi was next, followed by Greenleaf who maybe 1 out of 2 hundred had heard of.
Most people could not name one,

 

[cueenvy]

I don't believe that leagues ruined tournament. Maybe to some small degree. Leagues are played in bars by mostly less experienced, less skilled people. The bar league players want to play a few games and have some drinks. These people don't play in tournaments that I see.
A D level player is usually not looking to match up against and A or B. This is the way I see it. Maybe in some towns it is different.

Leagues and predominance of Mikey Mouse bar tables have ruined real pool. It's not one out 10 new players that even looks at a 9 foot table.

 

[ribdoner]

Could you possibly give me a time frame as to when pool was as its prime as far as recognition goes and plethora of tournaments? When did it start to go downhill and what caused it?

Action was at its height in the 60's (can't speak for pre 60's time frame) through the early 90's,

Tourney payouts were also at a peak during that time frame.

($$$ adjusted for inflation)

 

[Rockin' Robin]

There once was three guys from Texas that did a thousand or so events. Standardized rules and a code of conduct was one of the highlights. But alas, it was before everyone had a computer or we still might be pounding the highway today.

As for billiard corporations not giving back to the sport, Jim McDermott put them all to shame. He probably put more hard cash into the game than all the rest combined

Meanwhile, I am not a keyboard warrior, but if you run into me down the road, I would let you buy me a drink and discuss the ups and downs of being involved in this lifes journey.

 

[Bank it]

There once was three guys from Texas that did a thousand or so events. Standardized rules and a code of conduct was one of the highlights. But alas, it was before everyone had a computer or we still might be pounding the highway today.

As for billiard corporations not giving back to the sport, Jim McDermott put them all to shame. He probably put more hard cash into the game than all the rest combined

Meanwhile, I am not a keyboard warrior, but if you run into me down the road, I would let you buy me a drink and discuss the ups and downs of being involved in this lifes journey.

I often wondered what happened to the TE events that were so prolific during the 90's. Robbed quite a few of the East Coast events, good times. Really liked Al Atkinson that ran them in this neck of the woods.

 

[Scott Lee]

Bank it...I'm not familiar with Al Atkinson, but the three gentlemen Rockin' Robin was referring to were Randy Goettlicher (randyg here), Robin Adair (Rockin' Robin here), and John McChesney. Together they created the TE events.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I often wondered what happened to the TE events that were so prolific during the 90's. Robbed quite a few of the East Coast events, good times. Really liked Al Atkinson that ran them in this neck of the woods.

 

[Bank it]

Bank it...I'm not familiar with Al Atkinson, but the three gentlemen Rockin' Robin was referring to were Randy Goettlicher (randyg here), Robin Adair (Rockin' Robin here), and John McChesney. Together they created the TE events.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm aware Scott, I think it was the greatest thing that had ever happened with 9 ball & those gentlemen pulled it off, events everywhere, the ones I attended, had large fields, all due to the 3 men you mentioned.

I guess Al worked for them, TD for every east coast event I attended. Great guy, good times. He had a 94 Impala SS, beautiful car with a ton of miles on it from those events. It's a shame that it's gone, love to see something like that flourish again. Be well.

 

[Bob Jewett]

For me, my best memories are fairly recent; when the Camel Pro Tour was in existence, and living on the West Coast, the great pro tournaments they had in Reno (the Sands Regency 9-ball tournaments) twice a year. It was at one of the Reno tournaments I first saw Earl play. I also remember a nice tournament they had at Caesar's Tahoe.

Alas, the Camel Pro Tour somehow self-destructed, and I don't remember exactly the reason. Was it Don Mackey? Was it Earl quitting in one of the Finals? Was it just because the pros did it to themselves?

I sure miss seeing those tournaments.

The Camel Pro Tour was briefly in the middle of the many Reno Sands events and neither started them nor caused them.

After Camel and the PBT started the Camel Pro Tour there was suddenly $400,000 somehow missing from the prize funds. Camel disconnected from the PBT but continued pool involvement. Mackey sued and got an $800,000 settlement. So far as I know, none of that money went to the players who were owed money.

CJ Wiley started a separate tour just before the Camel deal was struck because he and a lot of other players were dissatisfied with how the PBT was going. That was the Tour that Earl has his million-dollar run in.

I suppose you could say that it was the pros doing it to themselves in some sense.