force follow power shot, how to hit?

[hitman22]

its not rocket science and even the average joe with wrist action solid bridge and follow though can get it.The vid is two minutes long and there is a good example about a minute and 28 seconds out.... https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...A5867DB36091198F2623A5867DB36091&&FORM=VRDGAR

 

[Black-Balled]

Wrist got mentioned a few times.

Obviously, text doesn't convey the meaning of 'wrist action', but I know a guy- real good player- whose wrist moves fwd/ bkwwd a ton on all shots. Very smooth.

My wrist is pretty much locked in all directions when I shoot.

I dont believe wrist action is required to execute this shot.

 

[Tooler]

I was shown this shot with a small elbow drop at impact for max action.

If you watch that video the Mr3 Cushion posted above, you can see it.:thumbup:

 

[mr3cushion]

Wrist got mentioned a few times.

Obviously, text doesn't convey the meaning of 'wrist action', but I know a guy- real good player- whose wrist moves fwd/ bkwwd a ton on all shots. Very smooth.

My wrist is pretty much locked in all directions when I shoot.

I dont believe wrist action is required to execute this shot.

EVERY shot that the CB has to exhibit EXTREME effect requires a certain degree of, 'wrist-action!' The timing when to apply that wrist-action is the question along with length of follow-thru. Oh, don't forget, 'cue-tip speed!'


Here's an excerpt of, 'Force-Follow' shots from an exhibition I preformed in 1997 at Chris's Billiards for 450 patrons. 350 of them, were students from Northwestern University.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqSz5LazJIU&t=11s

 

[Slasher]

There are no mystical forces at play, it is all pure physics. "wrist action" in itself adds nothing in terms of velocity, it just helps to strike the CB more accurately, tension is the enemy in all billiard strokes and the grip is the single most important element.

 

[mr3cushion]

There are no mystical forces at play, it is all pure physics. "wrist action" in itself adds nothing in terms of velocity, it just helps to strike the CB more accurately, tension is the enemy in all billiard strokes and the grip is the single most important element.

If the fingers of the players grip hand, open & close with the stroke, that IS wrist action!

 

[Slasher]

If the fingers of the players grip hand, open & close with the stroke, that IS wrist action!

That would be anatomically abnormal, don't know about you but my fingers are attached to my hand

 

[Black-Balled]

Well again...with words it is not possible we consider 'wrist motion' to be the same thing.

That said, your thoughts on the ergonomics are of particular interest to me.

There are many subltities re: cueing actions that are plainly apparent to billiards players, but pool players dont a knowledge or dont recognize.

EVERY shot that the CB has to exhibit EXTREME effect requires a certain degree of, 'wrist-action!' The timing when to apply that wrist-action is the question along with length of follow-thru. Oh, don't forget, 'cue-tip speed!'


Here's an excerpt of, 'Force-Follow' shots from an exhibition I preformed in 1997 at Chris's Billiards for 450 patrons. 350 of them, were students from Northwestern University.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqSz5LazJIU&t=11s

 

[Andrew Manning]

Well again...with words it is not possible we consider 'wrist motion' to be the same thing.

That said, your thoughts on the ergonomics are of particular interest to me.

There are many subltities re: cueing actions that are plainly apparent to billiards players, but pool players dont a knowledge or dont recognize.

Also, there's conscious wrist motion, unconscious wrist motion, and no wrist motion. You may think you have no wrist motion when you really have unconscious wrist motion.

I believe when people talk about having a "loose grip" for power shots, the reason this helps in most cases is it allows the wrist to move a bit and contribute to the shot, whether the player notices it happening or not.

 

[mr3cushion]

That would be anatomically abnormal, don't know about you but my fingers are attached to my hand

We're reading the same book, but, NOT on the same page!

If your grip hand opens and closes during the stroke, wrist action is involved! It's real simple! :banghead:

BTW, the hand is attached to the wrist!

 

[Slasher]

We're reading the same book, but, NOT on the same page!

If your grip hand opens and closes during the stroke, wrist action is involved! It's real simple! :banghead:

BTW, the hand is attached to the wrist!

The whole point of opening the fingers on the backswing is to minimize the involvement of the other components, nothing to do with the wrist.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Also, there's conscious wrist motion, unconscious wrist motion, and no wrist motion. You may think you have no wrist motion when you really have unconscious wrist motion. ...

In order for the wrist itself to actually produce more stick speed, it has to be moving the center of the hand forward relative to the bottom of the forearm as quickly as it can at the instant of impact. Try placing your grip hand on a table and twisting at the wrist forward and back. After doing that for a little bit, I've come to the conclusion that my wrist gives no significant power to any shot in comparison to my forearm and in fact it can't give any significant speed to the stick.

Further, the wrist will actually tend to twist in the other direction in order to hold onto the stick. Try bringing your stick forward in a straight line and watch which way your wrist tends to twist.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The whole point of opening the fingers on the backswing is to minimize the involvement of the other components, nothing to do with the wrist.

I think opening the back fingers tends to prevent twisting of the wrist.

 

[Black-Balled]

Also, there's conscious wrist motion, unconscious wrist motion, and no wrist motion. You may think you have no wrist motion when you really have unconscious wrist motion.

I believe when people talk about having a "loose grip" for power shots, the reason this helps in most cases is it allows the wrist to move a bit and contribute to the shot, whether the player notices it happening or not.

I guess you are right...no movement is not the same a virtually no movement.
:

 

[Slasher]

I think opening the back fingers tends to prevent twisting of the wrist.

It would be a cocking motion as opposed to rotation if you did not open the fingers.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Practice Earl’s “picnic shot”.See youtube.

Earl has shown me this shot in person...for a good while. He claims it is not a follow shot. He says it is all english. Seeing it up close, I have mixed feelings. He does get so much side spin on the ball that it makes a unique sound I have not heard elsewhere.

That's what he said, anyway.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think opening the back fingers tends to prevent twisting of the wrist.

I find using my ring finger as the main gripping finger very much promotes eliminating the muscles that twist the hand. When I finish mu straightest strokes, my first finger and thumb open up considerably.

Check out some of the grip videos by Barry Stark. Interesting stuff.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

There are no mystical forces at play, it is all pure physics. "wrist action" in itself adds nothing in terms of velocity, it just helps to strike the CB more accurately, tension is the enemy in all billiard strokes and the grip is the single most important element.

Actually wrist action does indeed add velocity. Your stroke is the same speed either way, as far as your forearm moving forward. So you either have a stationary hand, or a hand that is moving on top of the arm motion. That really is pure physics. It incorporates both the principles of levers and inertial reference frames. If you throw a ball in the same direction as the moving train you are standing on, the ball goes faster relative to the ground than if you don't throw the ball, or if the train is not moving. You know?

Also, I hear people talk a lot about "wrist action". I believe that "hand action" is far more important. There is a little snap you can incorporate into your grip, where the cue butt kinda slaps against the palm of your hand...kind of the same motion you would use to make water squirt out of your hand in a pool.

Food for thought...

KMRUNOUT

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In order for the wrist itself to actually produce more stick speed, it has to be moving the center of the hand forward relative to the bottom of the forearm as quickly as it can at the instant of impact. Try placing your grip hand on a table and twisting at the wrist forward and back. After doing that for a little bit, I've come to the conclusion that my wrist gives no significant power to any shot in comparison to my forearm and in fact it can't give any significant speed to the stick.

I forget who (long ago) suggested hitting the CB while holding your forearm still, with just wrist motion, to see how far you could make it go. The results were pretty convincing that you can't add much speed with your wrist, even with perfect timing.

What do you think of the idea that it can increase speed precision?

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

I forget who (long ago) suggested hitting the CB while holding your forearm still, with just wrist motion, to see how far you could make it go. The results were pretty convincing that you can't add much speed with your wrist, even with perfect timing.

What do you think of the idea that it can increase speed precision?

pj
chgo

I think that's a real bad idea. In the end your body will do what is needed to make the visualized shot real, but adding an extra timing issue, especially if it is conscious, is broken.