Good or bad, Earl is a big draw. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Forfeit One's Integrity to Win a Game?
- Thread starter ridewiththewind
- Start date
Good or bad, Earl is a big draw. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I know there is no coaching in singles play, but am not sure there are any "official" rules governing assistance between partners in doubles play.
In the leagues I have played in conversation or coaching between partners was allowed whether playing alternate shot or alternate inning. I do however feel that placing the CB for your partner when they have BIH is a stretch. If the partner wants to point at a spot and say "if it were me I would play from here", I think that's OK, but the actual placement of the ball should be by the shooter.
If i saw my opponents doing that, I would immediately say "you can't do that" and have the shooter place the ball. To wait until 3 shots later after the game is lost and try to call it sounds like sour grapes to me. I doubt if this thread would exist if the OP had won the game anyway.
Also, If it's true that the OP walked out on the team after this disagreement, that is true poor sportsmanship, immaturity and disrespect for your team mates.
Just my humble opinion
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Thank you. My point was that the player's who inning it was, and who had BIH, had already placed the CB for her shot. And it was a very viable shot, with the right ball speed and control. Her partner/coach is the one who picked the CB back up off the table from where she had placed it, and repositioned it in a completely different spot on the table. So far, everyone on the league that I have spoken with, including the President honestly feel that it should have been a foul...likening it to marking the table.
Sadly...I used to have great respect for these players....but no longer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.....I get it now. I kept hoping beyond hope that people will do the right thing...but sadly, that is just not proving to be the case.
Can't blame you for that Lisa.
Very similar situation a few years ago. Shooter didn't patch the pocket.
Someone watching pointed it out to him. He marked the pocket. I called foul and he shot the 8 in anyway. He looked at me and said, "what you going to do about it"?
The team was sponsored and playing in a bar owned by the H A. I guess not much I am going to do about it.
My own team mates wouldn't back me on it so I walked too. Quit shortly after.
Very similar situation a few years ago. Shooter didn't patch the pocket.
Someone watching pointed it out to him. He marked the pocket. I called foul and he shot the 8 in anyway. He looked at me and said, "what you going to do about it"?
The team was sponsored and playing in a bar owned by the H A. I guess not much I am going to do about it.
My own team mates wouldn't back me on it so I walked too. Quit shortly after.
Sorry, but I think you are wrong on this one. Assuming it was an obvious shot; you want to win a game because someone forgot to mark the obivious shot rather than have someone tell them to mark it.
To me, that just means you want to use the rules to win the game rather than actually win the game with your ability. IMO the league is probably better off without you.
Oh, I agree with you 100%. Only thing is that I would definitely allow Earl and the gang. Only thing being that Earl and the others would know up front that they act like pros or they never play in my tournaments again. I'm always open to giving someone a second chance.
MULLY
I disagree, but that is fine. I have told my opponent to call (or mark) his pocket prior to shooting before because they forgot. I don't need a rule to win; I want to win because I played better than my opponent.
However, I wouldn't expect someone to remind me either as it is my responsibility.
Huh? I didn't wait three shots before pointing it out....I said something immediately and was ignored. He placed the CB...she hadn't even gotten into stance yet. No sour grapes, we had no balls left on the table at this point, and easy shots had been missed all night. Had the inning been handled normally, I would've been okay with their winning that game....that is not the point here, the point here is that he should have NEVER TOUCHED THE CB!!!!!!!
So, cheating is not poor sportsmanship?! Some of y'all got a messed up sense of values.
Like I have previously stated....really didn't want to play this league this year anyways....should have stood my ground and said 'no'. Now it's going to be a moot point....because I'm done. I am certainly NOT going to continue to be berated and lied upon because I did the right thing and called the foul. Last year it was me finally giving a 90 second shot clock warning and my team having to step between myself and the guy I warned because he meant to assault me....and again, nothing was done. He is now in prison serving time for putting a CB in a sock and darn near beating someone to death with it.
Yeah......I'm the problem.:kma:
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But you did play and you are part of a team. Even though you were right in the situation, you were wrong to leave your team high and dry. You made a commitment to them. You let your emotions get the better of you and your team suffered the consequences.
Shit happens. It's how we react to it that defines us. You're quick to define the actions of your opponent for their win at any cost no integrity move, but you fail to recognize your own lack of responsibility to your teammates who suffered as a result. They didn't deserve that behavior from you.
Yeah, that was my point........
You are right about one thing though, don't play on a team if you can't be a team player....
So, he should win a game because someone coached him to mark the pocket?
It was not so much that he didn't mark an obvious shot, rather than someone
watching (not a team mate) told him.
There is a reason why a shooter must patch the pocket.
Exactly why coaching isn't allowed. Kind of a fked up statement on your behalf.
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People who play pool play in leagues. Pool players, not so much.
I agree. I'd prefer doubles play to follow the same rules as single play; when it's your turn at the table, it's entirely your shot. I know some people disagree, so I'm flexible about that. But a partner jumping in after the CB was placed and moving it is going too far.
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People take league play and the rules wayyy too seriously IMO. You say league was supposed to be a release from normal life and problems for you but yet you watch every game like a hawk hoping to call any foul on the other team. Is that really fun to you?
Marking a pocket for the 8 but not any other ball is silly to me. Hoping to win games because of your opponents lack of focus instead of your skill is chickencrap too. The people that take league this seriously are the main reason others quit league play, it's no longer fun.
Marking a pocket for the 8 but not any other ball is silly to me. Hoping to win games because of your opponents lack of focus instead of your skill is chickencrap too. The people that take league this seriously are the main reason others quit league play, it's no longer fun.
Just some general thoughts:
(1) It really doesn't matter if this is a BCAPL sanctioned league or not because the league operator (according to our BCAPL league operator) can run the local league under whatever rules they want. It's just that when you go to larger tournaments expect to know the rules and have them enforced.
Bottom line: Right or wrong whatever the league officials rule is the law. Love it or leave it. The BCAPL rules posted above by dr9ball in post #19 say that for doubles the league operator can relax the rules to be whatever they want regarding coaching between partners.
(2) As far as Ball-In-Hand goes it's my understanding that the shooter (or pair of people in doubles) can do whatever the heck they want to do prior to touching the cue ball with the tip of a cue. Seems to me that in doubles that would include your opponent's partner also.
Here's a brief scenerio I had a while back. I gave up BIH to my opponent and he walked around with the cue ball and then stuffed it into a pocket with his hand and then retrieved it from the ball return at the end of the table and then took his shot. I didn't take issue at the time but wondered about it and did ask about it on this forum. Not a foul.
The shooter with BIH can do WHATEVER they want (short of touching another ball with the cue ball) until they actually take a shot and hit the cue ball with the tip of their cue stick. For example, if my opponent had raked the cue ball into a pocket with the side of his stick or shot it into a pocket with the rubber bumper on the bottom of his stick, it still would not have been a foul because it was not a legal hit with the tip of the stick -- which means BIH is still in effect).
Bottom Line: It appears that in your league in doubles you have a pair of people playing another pair of people and each pair is allowed to coach each other however they want before each shot is attempted.
Either lighten up and realize that the purpose of playing league is to have fun OR decide league is no fun and don't return.
Comment: In Scotch doubles, I don't see how any of this would ever be a problem. However, with each doubles player completing an inning at a time I can see how the OP might get upset if the "relaxed" rules regarding coaching your doubles partner were not explained in advance. But, if partners are allowed to coach on each shot, then I see no problem with both partners touching the cue ball with BIH.
(1) It really doesn't matter if this is a BCAPL sanctioned league or not because the league operator (according to our BCAPL league operator) can run the local league under whatever rules they want. It's just that when you go to larger tournaments expect to know the rules and have them enforced.
Bottom line: Right or wrong whatever the league officials rule is the law. Love it or leave it. The BCAPL rules posted above by dr9ball in post #19 say that for doubles the league operator can relax the rules to be whatever they want regarding coaching between partners.
(2) As far as Ball-In-Hand goes it's my understanding that the shooter (or pair of people in doubles) can do whatever the heck they want to do prior to touching the cue ball with the tip of a cue. Seems to me that in doubles that would include your opponent's partner also.
Here's a brief scenerio I had a while back. I gave up BIH to my opponent and he walked around with the cue ball and then stuffed it into a pocket with his hand and then retrieved it from the ball return at the end of the table and then took his shot. I didn't take issue at the time but wondered about it and did ask about it on this forum. Not a foul.
The shooter with BIH can do WHATEVER they want (short of touching another ball with the cue ball) until they actually take a shot and hit the cue ball with the tip of their cue stick. For example, if my opponent had raked the cue ball into a pocket with the side of his stick or shot it into a pocket with the rubber bumper on the bottom of his stick, it still would not have been a foul because it was not a legal hit with the tip of the stick -- which means BIH is still in effect).
Bottom Line: It appears that in your league in doubles you have a pair of people playing another pair of people and each pair is allowed to coach each other however they want before each shot is attempted.
Either lighten up and realize that the purpose of playing league is to have fun OR decide league is no fun and don't return.
Comment: In Scotch doubles, I don't see how any of this would ever be a problem. However, with each doubles player completing an inning at a time I can see how the OP might get upset if the "relaxed" rules regarding coaching your doubles partner were not explained in advance. But, if partners are allowed to coach on each shot, then I see no problem with both partners touching the cue ball with BIH.
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My million dollars would not be wasted on a circus act. Pool needs its dignity back. Clowns like Earl would not be allowed. Allowing him in my tournament is called selling out.