Forfeit One's Integrity to Win a Game?

ridewiththewind said:
I did say that no one else on my team was paying attention, oh and one was bartending...I know I said this. And why would their team say anything?

Look, if y'all can't take the time to read the whole thread, so that you have all the information, then I am going to quit responding....simply tired of repeating myself.
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I'm talking about a whole room full of players. I guess its different everywhere but theres always 2 people scoring each match plus 3 or 4 tables always in view plus usually half of each of all those team members sitting there and watching.

If someone in our room was to walk over to clearly commit a foul , probably 5 or 10 people are going to scream at the top of thier lungs DONT TOUCH IT !!!

No one on any team I've ever been on would let one of our own players do it either.

Anyway , Ima get out of this one. I've only asked questions that have not been answered despite you wanting side step them and answer others. I'm sure your a nice person but your hostile and abrasive attitude in this thread is wanting to show otherwise.

No need to respond. :)

Have a good one.

:wave3:
 
RRfireblade said:
I'm talking about a whole room full of players. I guess its different everywhere but theres always 2 people scoring each match plus 3 or 4 tables always in view plus usually half of each of all those team members sitting there and watching.

If someone in our room was to walk over to clearly commit a foul , probably 5 or 10 people are going to scream at the top of thier lungs DONT TOUCH IT !!!

No one on any team I've ever been on would let one of our own players do it either.

Anyway , Ima get out of this one. I've only asked questions that have not been answered despite you wanting side step them and answer others. I'm sure your a nice person but your hostile and abrasive attitude in this thread is wanting to show otherwise.

No need to respond. :)

Have a good one.

:wave3:
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I apologize for that, as it is not my intent. However, I do not like feeling attacked, especially when I did not attack anyone else...simply relayed the incident. I have not tried to side-step any questions...I'm answering as best I can.

I am frustrated that the thread turned out to be other than it was ever meant to be. I am so not a malicious person, and the intent was not to have it turn to a flamefest. Throughout it all, I have still chosen to leave names out of it...and no one would have known any had not the other parties start revealing. I was not trying to smear anyone.

These matches are played in bars. This particular bar is small, with two 8ft bar boxes. Matches are played typically on the bar box in the back. The bar had maybe 4-5 regulars and the rest was the two league teams....5 on theirs that night and 5 (4 plus the bartender) on ours. There were actually only 3 truly paying attention to the game....myself, and the shooter and coach at the table.

I do not like being painted as the b*tch simply because I called a foul.
 
ridewiththewind said:
I apologize for that, as it is not my intent. However, I do not like feeling attacked, especially when I did not attack anyone else...simply relayed the incident. I have not tried to side-step any questions...I'm answering as best I can.

I am frustrated that the thread turned out to be other than it was ever meant to be. I am so not a malicious person, and the intent was not to have it turn to a flamefest. Throughout it all, I have still chosen to leave names out of it...and no one would have known any had not the other parties start revealing. I was not trying to smear anyone.

These matches are played in bars. This particular bar is small, with two 8ft bar boxes. Matches are played typically on the bar box in the back. The bar had maybe 4-5 regulars and the rest was the two league teams....5 on theirs that night and 5 (4 plus the bartender) on ours. There were actually only 3 truly paying attention to the game....myself, and the shooter and coach at the table.

I do not like being painted as the b*tch simply because I called a foul.
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Um,,, excuse me, but for you to say you did not attack anyone is 100% incorrect. Look at your dam headline of this thread!!! You attacked the integrity of your opponent and then in your OP you called them cheats.

If you did not intend this thread to be a flamefest, then why did you even start it. Oh wait, you thought it was going to be a flamefest on your opponent and the members on AZ would back you up.

As for you to say that nobody would have known if the others would not have revealed who they were. 100% wrong again, I knew what team you were talking about and did you honestly think that the others would not defend themself after you attacked thier integrity and called them cheats.

'you are not being painted as a Btch simply because you called a foul! I dont think anyone on the forum would say that.
But, I would like to say, with some of the responses you have posted,,,,,you have definately spilled some paint on yourself.
 
Well let me start by saying, who cares what I have to say? Hehe, honestly, just a few things come to mind after reading all this... and yes, I read it all, so you don't have to repeat yourself or explain anything again.

First, I would suggest in the future, even though saying "I don't think you can do that" or whatever phrase you used is considered calling a foul, that you say loudly and clearly "FOUL" or "STOP" so that it is completely clear that you are looking for a stopage of play and a ruling.

Secondly, while I completely agree with you that technically, the partner moving the cue ball and even lining up the shot and showing exactly how he would of lined up his cue and played it would be a foul (unless local rules were modified, at which point you had every right to clearly ask for a stopage of play and a ruling) ... you mentioned a few times that you were not looking to win on a technical foul. You also mentioned that your opponent was pretty "sporty" and had BIH on her last ball with 8 ball basically hanging in a pocket. Regardless of how her partner wanted to play it, don't you think she could of hit those last two shots with BIH without a problem if she was "sporty"?

If her partner pointed with his hand where he would place the CB and then lined up with his arm how he would hit the CB and said "top left" instead of showing on the CB where he would of hit it (or whatever the case was) ... how is it any different? Your opponent still won the game on her own shots and it seems like you are looking for a technical foul win after saying you would never go after that type of win. Even if she never called her partner up to the table and went 3 rails instead of 1, or whatever other dozens of ways to run out from that position, who cares? Fact remains, you gave up BIH when you had 8 as a near hanger and your opponent had 1 ball left. Why are you looking for ways to win and then saying you would never look for a technical out? You lost the game, it happens!
 
kimmyd said:
lisa,
first of all i'd like to mention that they way you explained in your story on how it went down last night is way off and nowhere near how it all happened. I was there & jake never said any of that & also said to your captain & co-captain that he wasn't sure off the top of his head if it was a foul & offered the game to your team. Since your captain & co-captain couldn't find this in the rules anywhere and the fact that it wasn't called until 3 shots later he declined the offer to take the win. I'd also like to mention, which you forgot to, that you tore down your stick & walked out leaving your team high and dry in the middle of the match knowing they wouldn't have enough people to finish. This should've been an issue handled within our league & you could've contacted another grievance member or the president.
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oh snap!!!!!!!!
 

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PocketPoint said:
now you know not to play on teams, and not to play in leagues!

Do you see how crazy the whole thing is?????
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No, no and no.. you're so way off

Leagues are the epitome of sports. Do not for one second think that it is the league and not the PLAYERS PLAYING IT or the PEOPLE RUNNING IT.

Is the NFL bad for football? NBA for basketball? MLB for baseball?

Not only are they not bad, they are EVERYTHING...

Leagues might be doing some things wrong like the APA.. but the future of pool revolves around league play.. not tournaments.

Everyone of you want pool to get better, but guess what.. there has to be a PRO... get ready for it.... LEAGUE
 
You have to wonder, maybe someone that works in the Billiard Stupid Rules Dept. was sitting around being bored one day and decided to implement it.

VNEA uses it in Vegas, I don't know about the BCA.

There must have been a reason for it. Keep losers from cheating possibly?

I think a 30 mph speed limit is stupid myself but I like getting 120 dollar tickets less so I try and keep it under 40 when ever possible.

Some make it sound like theres nothing but a bunch of goody 2 shoes, rule books in hand, playing their game and waiting for their opponent to foul so they can pounce. Not that way at all. Luckily there are more honest people playing league pool than not. But there are enuff cheaters, sandbaggers and losers out there that can make league night not enjoyable. The rules are pretty much there for them so don't try and twist it otherwise.
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Not twisting anything. I just don't understand the origin of this rule. I've been playing pool for more years than I care to admit and I don't remember a single instance where a player made the ball in the wrong pocket and it wasn't obvious to everyone in the room. However, I've seen multiple times where players didn't mark the pocket on a dead straight in shot and lost the game. Even worse, the opposing spotter would see the train wreck happening and not show the courtesy of telling the shooter to mark the pocket. Then immediately scream foul after the shot. Very unclassy...

I played APA for about 10 years and I would not call a foul on an unmarked pocket, regardless of the rules. When I used to play in the singles regionals, we generally agreed at the start of the match that we would call the pocket.

Never liked winning on a technicality...
 
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ridewiththewind said:
At this point I am saying, "you can't do that"...but my partner/Captain didn't hear me, so I went over to let him know what was up...by then, she had not only shot the 1 from where her partner had set the CB, but then pocketed the 8.

Her partner, who is also on the Grievance Committee, as well as the 'go to' rules guy comes over and says, 'Well, it's too late now, the game is over...
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Forget all the jabbing ^^ this is what needs to be addressed. Did that guy really say that? Can that be confirmed? Because if so.. he just called the foul on himself.
 
OneIron said:
I played APA for about 10 years and I would not call a foul on an unmarked pocket, regardless of the rules. When I used to play in the singles regionals, we generally agreed at the start of the match that we would call the pocket.

Never liked winning on a technicality...
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Same here, but......

I played a match in National Qualifiers and the guy I played and I agreed to call 8-ball. Match was at 4-3 my favor, and I was on 8-ball for the match. I sunk the 8-ball for the match and the other team Captain called foul for me not marking pocket. My opponent said it was OK, we agreed...captain said no and called Ref. Ref said loss of game. I won the next game and won the match 5-4, but I will never forget that.

Not everyone is honorable.

Joe
 
We pretty much always use called pocket in our APA league, instead of marking it during the session. Up to the players playing, so long as they both agree.

BUT, when it comes time for states, my team knows to ALWAYS mark the pocket, regardless of what the opponent wants to say or do. Then there is no question. Because it's the rule. Pretty simple. Follow the rule, you have no issues. Whether you agree with the rule or not.

(The angst over marking the pocket continues to amaze me. It's such a simple little rule, yet it fires up so much passion here. Rather amusing, actually.)

As for the OP, yikes. Sounds like there were problems waiting to happen, and this was the tipping point.
 
Bamacues said:
Same here, but......

I played a match in National Qualifiers and the guy I played and I agreed to call 8-ball. Match was at 4-3 my favor, and I was on 8-ball for the match. I sunk the 8-ball for the match and the other team Captain called foul for me not marking pocket. My opponent said it was OK, we agreed...captain said no and called Ref. Ref said loss of game. I won the next game and won the match 5-4, but I will never forget that.

Not everyone is honorable.

Joe
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That's true, Joe. But IMO, it just illustrates my point. The "mark your pocket" rule is a great way for a dishonorable player (or captain) to steal a game. When I played APA and didn't have a gentleman's agreement about marking, I would remind my opponent to mark the pocket. Used to drive some of my players crazy...
 
This is extremely serious.

Just kidding, it's only a league. Forget about it and move on. If you are truly concerned about winning, the best way is to play more pool and get better. If you are forced to resort to leafing through the rule book in search of victory that's probably not something to be particularly proud of.
 
Bill S said:
it's a coaching foul. However, many leagues and tournaments will alter the rules as they see fit. If they are going by the book, it is a foul.

Bill S.
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Bill,

The league does not go by the book, they use a modified BCAPL rules because they allow coaching.
 
If it doesn't specifically DISALLOW it, then it's up to the league director (who should be on-call during matches) to make the call. You should call "Foul" (or some other statement paraphrasing "That's a foul.") and ask for a ruling from the director.

It's a sucky situation, but walking out was incorrect. If you called "Foul" and they continued play, I would ask the director to forfeit the entire match in your favor.

And if you don't get the ruling you want, quit the league! Complaining on an internet forum might not always be the best idea, as evidenced by this super-awesome thread.
 
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