Forward Stroke: increasing acceleration

C

clarkie39

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Hello everyone, I read some where that the best forward stroke is a "increasing acceleration stroke". What i mean by "increasing acceleration" is once you start your forward stroke you should increase accleration as you get closer to the cue ball to reach max power at impact. From what i understand it forces you to follow though everytime and more importantly no power is lost when you strike the cueball. It makes sense. If I accelerate immediately in my forward stroke there is a good chance my power could be less when i contact the cue ball. My question is I don't see alot of info about it. The info i've read/instructional DVD don't talk much about it. I watch a lot of pros and I'm not sure if they are doing it. Obviously its hard to see it but do the pros do it? Based on the video I've watched if anyone does it would be Buddy Hall. But not sure..Just wondering the importance of it. Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
Lots of people confuse speed with acceleration. What you need on each shot is the correct speed of the cue stick. A particular speed can be achieved by a lot of different acceleration profiles -- think "jackrabbit start" versus Prius "slow and easy" which both get to 35 MPH.

If you want easy power, here is a way you can find it: Shoot with just the cue ball on the table. Shoot it straight up and down the center of the table from the line. Fiddle with the shot until you can make the cue ball go four table lengths with the minimum amount of effort. (Suggestion: think "let the cue stick do the work".)
 
Bob Jewett said:
Lots of people confuse speed with acceleration. What you need on each shot is the correct speed of the cue stick. A particular speed can be achieved by a lot of different acceleration profiles -- think "jackrabbit start" versus Prius "slow and easy" which both get to 35 MPH.

If you want easy power, here is a way you can find it: Shoot with just the cue ball on the table. Shoot it straight up and down the center of the table from the line. Fiddle with the shot until you can make the cue ball go four table lengths with the minimum amount of effort. (Suggestion: think "let the cue stick do the work".)
Click to expand...

I am bad about jerking the stick when wanting to hit it hard. I also grip the cue at impact a bit. I have had buddies tell me to "let the stick do the work" and I don't get it. Can you elaborate on this phrase a bit?

Thanks,

Ken
 
Okie said:
I am bad about jerking the stick when wanting to hit it hard. I also grip the cue at impact a bit. I have had buddies tell me to "let the stick do the work" and I don't get it. Can you elaborate on this phrase a bit?

Thanks,

Ken
Click to expand...
One way to think about it is to not think about hitting the cue ball hard, but instead think about maintaining a constant force on the cue stick. Try to feel you "resistance" of the weight of the cue all the way through your stroke.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
One way to think about it is to not think about hitting the cue ball hard, but instead think about maintaining a constant force on the cue stick. Try to feel you "resistance" of the weight of the cue all the way through your stroke.
Click to expand...

If you maintain a constant force on the cue, you are accelerating it at a constant rate by definition. Releasing the cue at the end of the stroke (i.e. letting the cue do all the work) implies a zero force is being applied to the cue by the stroking arm at impact. Acceleration will be zero and velocity will be constant until the cue strikes the CB.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
One way to think about it is to not think about hitting the cue ball hard, but instead think about maintaining a constant force on the cue stick. Try to feel you "resistance" of the weight of the cue all the way through your stroke.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

First - apologies to the OP. Mr. Jewett nailed your question and I got focused on a phrase I have had trouble with. Hopefully discussion about this phrase will help you gain insight into the stroke...I think it will

Patrick, I have used that idea in practice but it fails me in competition. Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ken
 
Okie said:
... I have had buddies tell me to "let the stick do the work" and I don't get it. Can you elaborate on this phrase a bit? ...
Click to expand...
Mostly it means not to tighten up to try to control the shot. In particular you don't want to start stopping the cue stick before it hits the cue ball.

I think the phrase "accelerate through the ball" is trying to get the same result.

In the end I think the best way to work on a technique (good power with low effort in this case) is to set a specific goal, like four table lengths, and then see how to get there so it "feels best" while fiddling in various ways with your mechanics. One example fiddle would be to grip the cue stick a few inches farther back.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Mostly it means not to tighten up to try to control the shot. In particular you don't want to start stopping the cue stick before it hits the cue ball.

I think the phrase "accelerate through the ball" is trying to get the same result.

In the end I think the best way to work on a technique (good power with low effort in this case) is to set a specific goal, like four table lengths, and then see how to get there so it "feels best" while fiddling in various ways with your mechanics. One example fiddle would be to grip the cue stick a few inches farther back.
Click to expand...
Good description.

FYI to Okie and others, more pertinent info can be found on the stroke acceleration resource page, including the following video Bob and I did together:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
I think of this problem in quite the same way I do the golf swing. I see a lot of golfers and pool players who seem to have a pretty decent practice stroke/swing, but when they step up to hit the shot, they're thinking about trying to hit the ball (cue ball or golf ball) rather than swinging the club or stroking the cue.

Don't think of trying to hit the cueball...think of stroking the cue...and the cueball just happens to get in the way of your stroke when you finally go to make your shot...this helps a lot of people with getting the cue (or golf clubs) to do the work rather than "forcing" the shot...
 
Bob Jewett said:
Mostly it means not to tighten up to try to control the shot. In particular you don't want to start stopping the cue stick before it hits the cue ball.

I think the phrase "accelerate through the ball" is trying to get the same result.

In the end I think the best way to work on a technique (good power with low effort in this case) is to set a specific goal, like four table lengths, and then see how to get there so it "feels best" while fiddling in various ways with your mechanics. One example fiddle would be to grip the cue stick a few inches farther back.
Click to expand...

Clear enough then...I just gotta learn to compose myself better under fire.

Thank you!

dr_dave said:
Good description.

FYI to Okie and others, more pertinent info can be found on the stroke acceleration resource page, including the following video Bob and I did together:

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

I have read it...a few times lol

I must be a bit hard headed...or forgetful :embarrassed2:

Seriously though, I have spent hours reading your site and reading Mr. Jewett's articles and posts. They are very helpful! Thank you both!

Ken
 
clarkie39 said:
Hello everyone, I read some where that the best forward stroke is a "increasing acceleration stroke". What i mean by "increasing acceleration" is once you start your forward stroke you should increase accleration as you get closer to the cue ball to reach max power at impact. From what i understand it forces you to follow though everytime and more importantly no power is lost when you strike the cueball. It makes sense. If I accelerate immediately in my forward stroke there is a good chance my power could be less when i contact the cue ball. My question is I don't see alot of info about it. The info i've read/instructional DVD don't talk much about it. I watch a lot of pros and I'm not sure if they are doing it. Obviously its hard to see it but do the pros do it? Based on the video I've watched if anyone does it would be Buddy Hall. But not sure..Just wondering the importance of it. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Click to expand...



The killer is decelerating through the cue ball. This will cause ball misses all day long. :eek:
 
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MFB said:
Your forward stroke of the cue stick slows as your arm moves forward. At least that is how I would describe it.
Click to expand...
Or "stopping the shot before it is finished". It gives a really bad result if you are also trying to use side spin as you end up with less speed and more swerve than you were planning. Some people feel they have to quickly jerk the stick back on draw shots and that can lead to a decelerated shot as they start the jerk before contact.
 
Okie said:
I am bad about jerking the stick when wanting to hit it hard. I also grip the cue at impact a bit. I have had buddies tell me to "let the stick do the work" and I don't get it. Can you elaborate on this phrase a bit?

Thanks,

Ken
Click to expand...

It is all remembering to follow through, one thing helps me a lot, is when i am about to shoot a shot that demands follow through, before i pull the trigger i say to myself, "all the way" few times until i pull the trigger, meaning bring hand and shoulder all the way do not stop until ball in pocket, i say that when i break 9 ball also.
At times i follow through without shoulder down, that some times not enough if i want high speed.
Just a note.
 
naji said:
It is all remembering to follow through, one thing helps me a lot, is when i am about to shoot a shot that demands follow through, before i pull the trigger i say to myself, "all the way" few times until i pull the trigger, meaning bring hand and shoulder all the way do not stop until ball in pocket, i say that when i break 9 ball also.
At times i follow through without shoulder down, that some times not enough if i want high speed.
Just a note.
Click to expand...

What does the length of your follow through have to do with any shot?

randyg
 
randyg said:
What does the length of your follow through have to do with any shot?

randyg
Click to expand...
As has been said (and as you know better than most) follow through helps prevent "braking" the stroke before hitting the CB, which helps prevent "stroke nips".

I think "follow through" means about the same thing as "accelerate through", and I think "follow through a lot" is just another way of saying "be sure you follow through" or "be sure you don't brake your stroke".

pj
chgo
 
DTL said:
Nothing.......the cue ball is on its way the instant (couple milliseconds) the tip hits it. But I guess a poor or bad follow through (deceleration, punching it, etc) for any given shot means flaws in the stroke before contact.
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Could you post some links to the tests results that proves, for all possible cue speeds that can be used for a shot, the CB ball leaves as you say " in a instant " on all shots?
 
duckie said:
Could you post some links to the tests results that proves, for all possible cue speeds that can be used for a shot, the CB ball leaves as you say " in a instant " on all shots?
Click to expand...
High-speed video tests have been done by different people on this topic, covering a wide range of speeds, tip hardnesses, and stroke types. A summary of the results (along with video links) can be found here:

A thousandth of a second (or even a couple of thousandths of a second) is not an "instant" theoretically speaking, but it sure is an instant practically speaking.

Regards,
Dave
 
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