SomeDeadGuy
Member
Help. We’re playing 14.1. My opponent accidentally racks the break ball. What relief options do I have?
Put the ball back where you think it was. It's your decision but don't cheat. A general principle here is that the ref can't commit a foul, usually.Help. We’re playing 14.1. My opponent accidentally racks the break ball. What relief options do I have?
Off the top of my head, it was OK to knock an OB off the table until about 1985. It just spotted. Also, before about that time all balls spotted at 9B. In American 3-cushion it was also legal to knock a ball off the table and the point would count if scored. There were a few trick shots that relied on a floored ball.Does anyone know the origin of the ball-off-the-table foul? When was it first instituted? Did it stay down and was it ball-in-hand originally? I'm talking about any object ball (not the cue-ball), and I'm most interested in rotation games, although that rule may have been established before 9 or 10 ball.
One thing about our pool , ( pocket billiards ) is it's always someone else's problem...I don't have any hope for these people, but I do have hope for the majority of league players who don't know this stuff but should. Some of them might actually want to know.
That's unfortunate, but it's his problem ... not yours.
Regards,
Dave
You must know there is bar leagues in most all cities and the rules are very important. There will always be a local fair OP to quote the rules... This is also in all senior centers and veteran centers so there must be of some importance... These Bars are a big part of this country's pool games their in the quality and quantity of our pool games; The alcohol is everywhere and has to mix with the rules... I have talked to Andersen at WPA about this to no prevail... We must understand that out of these bars comes many hall players, I think that if we are to have a future in United States pocket billiards this rules that are confusing and changing needs to be addressed, Doctor Dave am I wrong ? GuyUnder the "official rules" of pool, anything goes if you hit a legal ball 1st and pocket the intended ball in the intended pocket.
The problem with "bar rules" is they are different in every bar and in every part of the country, and they vary with the person you are playing, especially when the person has been drinking in the said bar. in other words, "bar rules" = "anything goes at the whim of the people playing."
Regards,
Dave
You are exactly right, Contiguous... Thank you I to hope to read the answers... guyHi. First post here.
Briefly, I play a little and mostly just try to stay in stroke. I lurk here and on youtube for the matches and interesting tidbits. I find your videos very insightful and they've certainly added to my knowledge.
What compelled me to actually log on was the part in the video where you cover frozen balls. It occurs to me that no matter how you hit a cueball that is frozen to another ball, the stick and the two balls will be momentarily contiguous. (not sure if that's the right word) I can see requiring the cueball be shot away from the frozen ball and back to it if it is the ball in play. Of course the rule for legal contact would still apply. Any thoughts?
That's not the way that pool has ever been played. Snooker does that but not pool and snooker gives credit for hitting the ball you shoot away from.... I can see requiring the cueball be shot away from the frozen ball and back to it if it is the ball in play. ...
His name is Ian Anderson.... I have talked to Andersen at WPA about this to no prevail... ..
I can see requiring the cueball be shot away from the frozen ball and back to it if it is the ball in play. Of course the rule for legal contact would still apply. Any thoughts?
That's not the way that pool has ever been played. Snooker does that but not pool and snooker gives credit for hitting the ball you shoot away from.
There are many rules of pool that could be changed. Unless there is good reason to do so, they should not be changed.
One of the huge problems with the rules until about 1995 was that they changed every year and usually for no good reason. It was a dark time for the rules.
There would be a lot less confusion if everybody just used the “official rules of pool” when playing pool instead of using nebulous “bar rules,” but i know they are ingrained in many people. Regardless, I agree that we should always try to improve and simplify the official rules.You must know there is bar leagues in most all cities and the rules are very important. There will always be a local fair OP to quote the rules... This is also in all senior centers and veteran centers so there must be of some importance... These Bars are a big part of this country's pool games their in the quality and quantity of our pool games; The alcohol is everywhere and has to mix with the rules... I have talked to Andersen at WPA about this to no prevail... We must understand that out of these bars comes many hall players, I think that if we are to have a future in United States pocket billiards this rules that are confusing and changing needs to be addressed, Doctor Dave am I wrong ? Guy
Never read the WPA rules and I don’t know of anyone that plays by their rules. I think the league I play in has a good set of rules to play by. I play TAP. If there’s going to be a close hit a referee is called to watch. Players will make the call good or bad then the ref makes the final decision in my league. The videos I’ve been watching online are confusing to beginner players and comical to experienced players. I don’t understand the reason to prove a ref might of made a bad call in a recent tournament. What’s the big deal?
In both of these situations I assume that the person at the table was acting as the ref. The general guideline is that the ref can't foul and neither can the player acting as the ref. Put the ball back as best you can.Straight pool question.
1. Player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
2. Opponent of player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
Thanks for y input.
Thanks for your reply. However, what happens when the shooter or shooter's opponent is racking? I've heard if the shooter is racking, loss of turn but it doesn’t account where the moved ball should go. I've asked a number of experienced straight pool players and no one knew. Even the rules don’t address this.In both of these situations I assume that the person at the table was acting as the ref. The general guideline is that the ref can't foul and neither can the player acting as the ref. Put the ball back as best you can.
As I mentioned in the other thread, the rules assume a ref is racking. I proposed a solution to your outside-the-rules case. I think it can work unless the two players can't cooperate. How about this more complete suggestion:Thanks for your reply. However, what happens when the shooter or shooter's opponent is racking? I've heard if the shooter is racking, loss of turn but it doesn’t account where the moved ball should go. I've asked a number of experienced straight pool players and no one knew. Even the rules don’t address this.
There would be a lot less confusion if everybody just used the “official rules of pool” when playing pool instead of using nebulous “bar rules,” but i know they are ingrained in many people. Regardless, I agree that we should always try to improve and simplify the official rules.
Is there something to the history of "bar rules"? The major components seem remarkably consistent nationally despite having no real current written basis or governing body. I would think something like WWI or WWII soldiers playing it and spreading it evenly in the USA upon return to home, however 14:1 seems more prevalent at the time.
The deal is trying to educate players. When people are ignorant, it causes problems. When people are informed and willing to learn, there are far fewer problems.Never read the WPA rules and I don’t know of anyone that plays by their rules. I think the league I play in has a good set of rules to play by. I play TAP. If there’s going to be a close hit a referee is called to watch. Players will make the call good or bad then the ref makes the final decision in my league. The videos I’ve been watching online are confusing to beginner players and comical to experienced players. I don’t understand the reason to prove a ref might of made a bad call in a recent tournament. What’s the big deal?