SomeDeadGuy
Member
Help. We’re playing 14.1. My opponent accidentally racks the break ball. What relief options do I have?
FOULS IN POOL ... Everything You Need to Know
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
Put the ball back where you think it was. It's your decision but don't cheat. A general principle here is that the ref can't commit a foul, usually.
Does anyone know the origin of the ball-off-the-table foul? When was it first instituted? Did it stay down and was it ball-in-hand originally? I'm talking about any object ball (not the cue-ball), and I'm most interested in rotation games, although that rule may have been established before 9 or 10 ball.
Off the top of my head, it was OK to knock an OB off the table until about 1985. It just spotted. Also, before about that time all balls spotted at 9B. In American 3-cushion it was also legal to knock a ball off the table and the point would count if scored. There were a few trick shots that relied on a floored ball.
Guy Manges
Registered
One thing about our pool , ( pocket billiards ) is it's always someone else's problem...
Guy Manges
Registered
You must know there is bar leagues in most all cities and the rules are very important. There will always be a local fair OP to quote the rules... This is also in all senior centers and veteran centers so there must be of some importance... These Bars are a big part of this country's pool games their in the quality and quantity of our pool games; The alcohol is everywhere and has to mix with the rules... I have talked to Andersen at WPA about this to no prevail... We must understand that out of these bars comes many hall players, I think that if we are to have a future in United States pocket billiards this rules that are confusing and changing needs to be addressed, Doctor Dave am I wrong ? Guy
Guy Manges
Registered
You are exactly right, Contiguous... Thank you I to hope to read the answers... guy
That's not the way that pool has ever been played. Snooker does that but not pool and snooker gives credit for hitting the ball you shoot away from.
There are many rules of pool that could be changed. Unless there is good reason to do so, they should not be changed.
One of the huge problems with the rules until about 1995 was that they changed every year and usually for no good reason. It was a dark time for the rules.
His name is Ian Anderson.
If you are really interested in changing the rules of pool, I urge you to get training as a referee. Several of the leagues offer such training. There is also the video quiz that Dr. Dave has set up here:
Pool Rules Quiz - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources
An interactive video quiz for testing and improving your knowledge of pool and billiards rules (based on the WPA World Standardized Rules).
billiards.colostate.edu
Finally, although they might not be perfectly clear on first reading, especially if you are from a bar/club background with local rules, I think you need to read and understand the rules as well as you can. As I say, it will likely take multiple readings. If you have questions about them, you can also look in the CSI rules which have extensive examples and explanations. They are based on the World Standardized Rules but have some additions suited to US league players. The CSI rules are here:
Frankly I think the rules should be stiffened. Keep jocks from devolving.
Like the frozen balls; not just shooting away but kicking back for a pool legal contact never mind the snooker version that only requires initial contact.
There would be a lot less confusion if everybody just used the “official rules of pool” when playing pool instead of using nebulous “bar rules,” but i know they are ingrained in many people. Regardless, I agree that we should always try to improve and simplify the official rules.
Never read the WPA rules and I don’t know of anyone that plays by their rules. I think the league I play in has a good set of rules to play by. I play TAP. If there’s going to be a close hit a referee is called to watch. Players will make the call good or bad then the ref makes the final decision in my league. The videos I’ve been watching online are confusing to beginner players and comical to experienced players. I don’t understand the reason to prove a ref might of made a bad call in a recent tournament. What’s the big deal?
I think it was a really big deal. This was a bad call made in a major tournament. This doesn't happen often (although, I have many examples compiled here, all of which are good "learning moments"). It was also a very interesting shot to analyze since the motion of the balls was very non-intuitive on first glance. Also, the motion of the CB and 3 was very similar regardless of the order of contact (ball-first, cushion-first, simultaneous-contact, etc.). This is unusual also. But most importantly, with all the discussion these videos created on YouTube and on Facebook, people (refs and players) have learned a few things about pool rules and how to interpret and apply them correctly. The results of the discussion might also lead to some clarification and improvement in the WPA Rules and Regulations (the "official rules of pool"). That's always a good thing. So yes, this was a big deal!
SomeDeadGuy
Member
Straight pool question.
1. Player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
2. Opponent of player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
Thanks for y input.
1. Player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
2. Opponent of player shooting accidentally touches or racks the 15th object ball. What is the penalty?
Thanks for y input.
In both of these situations I assume that the person at the table was acting as the ref. The general guideline is that the ref can't foul and neither can the player acting as the ref. Put the ball back as best you can.
SomeDeadGuy
Member
Thanks for your reply. However, what happens when the shooter or shooter's opponent is racking? I've heard if the shooter is racking, loss of turn but it doesn’t account where the moved ball should go. I've asked a number of experienced straight pool players and no one knew. Even the rules don’t address this.
As I mentioned in the other thread, the rules assume a ref is racking. I proposed a solution to your outside-the-rules case. I think it can work unless the two players can't cooperate. How about this more complete suggestion:
If you touch a ball say, "Oops, I touched the 7. I think it was here but you put it back where you think it was." If he cheats you, don't play him again.
If he touches a ball say, "Oops. Just put it back where it was." If he cheats you, don't play him again.
I don't think in either case there is a need to call a foul unless the movement was clearly intentional and then you have a much larger problem.
Is there something to the history of "bar rules"? The major components seem remarkably consistent nationally despite having no real current written basis or governing body. I would think something like WWI or WWII soldiers playing it and spreading it evenly in the USA upon return to home, however 14:1 seems more prevalent at the time.
Maybe Bob Jewett or others have some perspective to share on this. I don't.
The deal is trying to educate players. When people are ignorant, it causes problems. When people are informed and willing to learn, there are far fewer problems.