I've only been playing in APA for about 10 weeks now and I've never seen anybody call somebody on a foul for a double hit or a push shot and I've seen plenty of them. Usually it's bad players that do it and I'm pretty sure they're not aware of what they're actually doing. Do you guys normally call fouls on this? If you know what to look for it's really obvious when it happens. When I played in BCA anytime it looked like a shot might result in a double hit the opponent almost always called a spotter to watch the shot.
fouls on double hits
- Thread starter boblzer0
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I've been playing APA for a while (SL6 in 8 ball) and my biggest pet peeve on obvious double hits/pushes is when the other guy (usually a low handicapper) has the cue ball an inch or so from the object ball and shoots and both balls go down table at the same speed. Obviously a bad hit but the other guy is convinced he "followed" with the cue ball when there's no way that can happen with the balls that close together, and there's no convincing him otherwise so I stopped trying.
Most lower ranks aren't aware of this in my opinion. I have taught it to people on my teams in the past and even to opponents. Normally I will just tell them after they shoot that it was a bad hit and explain why and to be careful next time and I let them keep shooting. After all, league is suppose to be for fun. As far as a higher rank who does it and should know better, I will call a foul all day long. Normally I will get another high rank to watch it if I don't see them at least at a 45 degree angle.
That's kinda what i notice. Usually they have such low understanding of how the cueball should react in that situation that nothing can change their mind. In bca we usually would call the captains(or people that understood the shot) over to watch it and decide whether it's a foul or not. One of these times I'm gonna play a shot like this to my advantage just for kicks to see if anyone calls me on it.
I see double hits get called occassionally, but not too often. Mostly in the playoffs.
Push shots are legal, atleast they are in the league I play in. We just had an APA Regional Singles Qualifier in my area and push shots was covered extensively, by the LO and his referees.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that push shots are legal only if the object ball and cue ball are frozen.
Push shots are legal, atleast they are in the league I play in. We just had an APA Regional Singles Qualifier in my area and push shots was covered extensively, by the LO and his referees.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that push shots are legal only if the object ball and cue ball are frozen.
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yeah i always thought that frozen ball rule was weird. It's funny because I sometimes here players state the balls are or aren't frozen and then go ahead and play a obvious double hit shot. Like seriously you know there's a rule specifically regarding frozen balls but don't know the double hit rule?
I rarely see it called during weekly play against the lower handicaps. Usually if I see it, after the match I'll explain the shot sometimes. Unless they are acting like jerks then its just not worth it. But the higher handicaps should know but surprisingly most don't seem to know.
When the rules talk about a "push shot," which is a foul, they're talking about something different from a double hit and something different from striking a cueball/object ball frozen pair. I talk about this some in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rip8xwobksc
Hey Mike, has anyone ever proposed or used a unique name for the shot through a frozen object ball that you know of? It seems like it would help prevent a lot of confusion to have a specific term this shot.
i call it every chance i get because it's been called on me, and i thought i did a pretty good job elevating the cue like you're supposed to but a neutral player in a bca match called mine a bad hit so now i just say before they even shoot - that's gonna be a bad hit better figure something else out.
Excellent instructional video Mike.
I used to call it every time, and I've been called an asshole for it.
The guy who did that was wrong to say that, but lately I find I've been letting it slide occasionally. I have no good justification for this other than I get tired of being That Guy who has to explain every nuance to a banger who seems like he will never be more than a banger. This is especially true when I know I'm going to beat him even if he gets away with a foul. If it's very obvious he's about to do it even before he strokes, I'll tell him to hold up and explain that he's about to foul and how he can avoid it. I'd rather do that then try to call it on him afterwards and get my BIH.
I will always explain it to players who seem a little serious about pool and can already play a little. If the bangers happen to overhear and gain something then that's good.
The guy who did that was wrong to say that, but lately I find I've been letting it slide occasionally. I have no good justification for this other than I get tired of being That Guy who has to explain every nuance to a banger who seems like he will never be more than a banger. This is especially true when I know I'm going to beat him even if he gets away with a foul. If it's very obvious he's about to do it even before he strokes, I'll tell him to hold up and explain that he's about to foul and how he can avoid it. I'd rather do that then try to call it on him afterwards and get my BIH.
I will always explain it to players who seem a little serious about pool and can already play a little. If the bangers happen to overhear and gain something then that's good.
TAP rule
Check this out. TAP league only requires that you raise the butt of your cue to at least a 45 degree angle if the cue ball is less than a chalks width from the object ball. No fouls will be called. But if the cue ball is more than a chalks width from the object a referee must be called to watch the shot. We have a player that with ball in hand places the cue ball closer than the width of the chalk and deliberately double hits with his cue raised and smiles at you when you catch him.
Check this out. TAP league only requires that you raise the butt of your cue to at least a 45 degree angle if the cue ball is less than a chalks width from the object ball. No fouls will be called. But if the cue ball is more than a chalks width from the object a referee must be called to watch the shot. We have a player that with ball in hand places the cue ball closer than the width of the chalk and deliberately double hits with his cue raised and smiles at you when you catch him.
Yep, I see it all the time, and even decent players seem to have trouble grasping the concept.
I usually give people a warning that it will likely be a bad hit, but that doesn't always help.
I usually go to a certain room tue. & thur. that has apa leauge, im there for the $10 or $20 ring game that always goes off & while im waiting for that game to start i watch some matches. Well heres the clincher,the ref's i've watched when a double hit or push happen is as lost as a first grader,have never seen 1 of them call it even when told to watch for it(they dont know one when they see one) but thats the APA for you,herd them in & get their cash,its sad to see imho a leauge that has all these rules & no one understands the concept of rules or just ignores them because its just a so called drinking & good time leauge.Imho the apa is a joke & bad one at that.
imo, this is on the league operator...
About 8 years ago, we had this come up several times(10+) in league matches(bca) in one year. The league operator played on our team and received several phone calls concerning this issue. I suggested to him that this rule be clarified in a pre league meeting w/ all the team captains. And as long as your league operator knows the rules, this should clear up any confrontations. That next year and each year after that, any rules of that nature are covered in pre league meetings. Since then, I don't think there has been more than 2 or 3 confrontations reguarding double/push hits.
As to whether I would call it on someone, it all depends on the level of knowledge of the player. If I know they are new to the league, you let them know BEFORE they shoot. If they shoot and double hit anyway, and claim it was a good hit, you just tell them that you respectfully disagree and tell them to continue. If they are a veteran of the league, just ask someone else to watch the hit(that knows the rules).
About 8 years ago, we had this come up several times(10+) in league matches(bca) in one year. The league operator played on our team and received several phone calls concerning this issue. I suggested to him that this rule be clarified in a pre league meeting w/ all the team captains. And as long as your league operator knows the rules, this should clear up any confrontations. That next year and each year after that, any rules of that nature are covered in pre league meetings. Since then, I don't think there has been more than 2 or 3 confrontations reguarding double/push hits.
As to whether I would call it on someone, it all depends on the level of knowledge of the player. If I know they are new to the league, you let them know BEFORE they shoot. If they shoot and double hit anyway, and claim it was a good hit, you just tell them that you respectfully disagree and tell them to continue. If they are a veteran of the league, just ask someone else to watch the hit(that knows the rules).
If you know somebody who doesn't "know what to look for" of how to prevent double hits and other types of fouls, refer them to:
The page contains links to many videos teaching people how to recognize and avoid all sorts of fouls.
Regards,
Dave