Four Bears Classic Tourney failing to return entry fees

nineballtko

nineballtko

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly one month I have been waiting for entry fees to be returned to me as promised by the tournament committee. Won't go into details but after the committee voted to not allow me and my horse to enter the event and I was promised by Murna Bear who notified me by telephone that my entries were being refunded. Bill Jacobs refuses to answer my texts as does Ray Poitra who also blocked me on FB after about three attempts to get action out of him. Not allowing us to enter this event which I have played in for 20 plus years now was an absolute act of favoritism from the start. But I am a widowed father of two young boys who is disablesd and lives on a fixed income....if I am not allowed the chance to make money at the event and promised my entries back I don't see why it is taking so long when it was their decision....as soon as that decision was made by committee the refund check should have been drafted. Instead I have been fed multiple stories as to why I ha vent seen them yet and am now officially being ignored and blocked by all the same committee members I thought were friends. One would think that a multi millionaire casino operation in the love if the oil boom country could return $230 without incident!!! Guess I was wrong!!!

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Good luck getting a refund from this event. I doubt it's going to happen.
I don't know why they would want all the bad publicity, but it seems they do.
I know someone that did not play in 2012, and they would not refund his entry the entire year, with NUMEROUS calls to both parties. And Ray P. talked directly to me once and said he was sending it.
 
4 bears and refund

I don't understand why they would not send the refund.

They need to do the right thing.

I am curious why they would not let you(or your horse) play - especially if you had played in the event for 20 years.

Everytime these things come up about slow payment, it gives pool a bad name.

Mark Griffin
 
As long as this is not only half the story by the OP, then the Bear side is way out of line. This kind of crap knocks pool back two steps when it just gained 1. Johnnyt
 
I'd sure like to hear Both sides of the story first. Also, if you sent in your money by Credit Card, contact your provider and they could easily help you out with no more than a phone call. I'd also call the local police dept. and see if their detectives division have a white collar crime ''form letter'' that they send businesses to make them proactive and avoid the next stage. Those police dept. form letters will get their attention Quickly. Good luck. I got stiffed in FL out of $40 from my boss, got a form letter, and an instant ck and apology that was total BS, but I got the results I needed. ''white collar crime''.
 
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Derby did the same thing to me. I called for a refund because I had to work. They said they needed the request in writing, so I sent them one and never heard from them. They must have needed the money more than me.
 
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refund

yea, you only heard one side, should really know whats going on before you make comments.

he will get his whole refund, as far as mannys entry, he said keep it for this year than gave it to warren.

first of all once the tournament is over we all go our own ways, we meet once in awhile and when we get 2 committee members together we will get to the bank and sign out 230 for the return of his entry fee.

i wont go into the whole reason, and why he will never be welcomed back to our tournament but i will say this.

players called us with concerns about their safty, saying threats were made and that it would accure at our tournament . we also had other tournament directors call and forward us to facebook where we seen the threats. we informed him of the conduct we expected if he attended, 5 minutes later he was threating the same player and that player informed us at that monment. so after giving him a chance the committee met voted that we would not put our tournament at risk for one player or even take a chance that something would happen and ruin the tournament for us and the casino and players.

im sure he has lots to say about the committee , but this tournament has been going for 22 years, with players from all over the country, he is the same person last year bashing our tournament because alot of pros were there and that we cater to them, yea they get treated good, but i think they earned it. we the committee put this tournament on for the players , we dont make a dime, we do it for the love of the game and wont let one player lose it at our tournaemnt and ruin it...........

please answer this ,would any of you tournament directors put your tournament, sponsors, players , reputation at risk for one player?????
 
refund

his horse could of played, he was drawn in to the 9ball and 8ball, his horse as he calls him was not banned and was more than welcome to play, no one informed us he would not be coming, so accutally by him not showing up it took a spot from another person who wanted to play and would of been putting quarters in the tables .
 
hmm

he said keep it, he was coming this year, he didnt show up this year either?
JumpinJoe said:
Good luck getting a refund from this event. I doubt it's going to happen.
I don't know why they would want all the bad publicity, but it seems they do.
I know someone that did not play in 2012, and they would not refund his entry the entire year, with NUMEROUS calls to both parties. And Ray P. talked directly to me once and said he was sending it.
Click to expand...
 
refund

we always try to do the right thing, and will. his horse was more than welcome to attend and play. he was drawn in , someone else could of took that spot if he would of called and said he wasnt coming.

Mark Griffin said:
I don't understand why they would not send the refund.

They need to do the right thing.

I am curious why they would not let you(or your horse) play - especially if you had played in the event for 20 years.

Everytime these things come up about slow payment, it gives pool a bad name.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...
 
raypoitra said:
he said keep it, he was coming this year, he didnt show up this year either?
Click to expand...

Funny thing is , I didn't mention a player and you knew exactly who it was. That's guilt there.
Lol. After about 5 calls from me and being told it would be refunded. I guess so.
But whatever. I've seen it many times, and im sure it will keep happening. Pool won't change in our lifetime.

You know what happens when someone says I can't make it when I run an event? I say send me your Paypal(I send immediately) or mailing address and I send a refund. Then it's my responsibility to get it back from the poolroom or committe. It's a lot simpler and less headaches down the road.

You have a good event going, don't get a black eye on it for a few entries from people.
 
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good idea

no guilt here , yea its easy to know who you were talking about because beside him and this other guy they only ones who ever wanted their entry fees back, was it 5 times or once? first post said once , good idea the paypal thing , i just refunded nineballtko via paypal so that is done, wish i would of thought of that long ago. also guess no one read this years poster where it said no refunds. but if given advance notice we do refund the players.

JumpinJoe said:
Funny thing is , I didn't mention a player and you knew exactly who it was. That's guilt there.
Lol. After about 5 calls from me and being told it would be refunded. I guess so.
But whatever. I've seen it many times, and im sure it will keep happening. Pool won't change in our lifetime.

You know what happens when someone says I can't make it when I run an event? I say send me your Paypal(I send immediately) or mailing address and I send a refund. Then it's my responsibility to get it back from the poolroom or committe. It's a lot simpler and less headaches down the road.

You have a good event going, don't get a black eye on it for a few entries from people.
Click to expand...
 
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Tournament entries

There might be a couple of different issues here.

There needs to be deadlines for withdrawing from an event and getting refunds.

If Manny was in the draw, he does not get a refund and no-one should get his spot.
Several reasons: he might show up even after forfeiting first match and no changes can be made once the draw is done (for obvious reasons).

If any player makes threats towards other players or staff, he will to be allowed to participate or might be barred from the premises.

If this is how it came down, you just needed to respond and explain.

No event needs to be bullied or threatened.

Mark Griffin
 
thanks

like i have said , every year we learn something new to improve and to help our tournament, we will implement the paypal idea, and the refund deadline on the posters, it wasnt manny who was drawn in but another player, if that player would of told us before the draw, then it wouldnt of been a big deal, but manny did let us know before the tournament and draw that was last years tourney and we were late getting back his entry and i will take blame for that, my bad wont happen again.
 
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I wasn't going to add to this post till I read Ray Poitra's post here. Firstly who are you to talk about only one side of the story being considered. When the committee voted I had talked to you Ray, two days earlier and assured you there would be no incident at your event. You in turn told me we were good then and two days later, only two days before event started I get the call about not being allowed to play. Never once was I asked my side of the story!!!
Secondly I posted on FB two weeks prior about my anger with one certain individual. Like I said I did it on FB because I had every right to be angry and express myself about the happenings that brought this to be in the first place
Thirdly there were no threats after conversation as you stated. Matter of fact I was on the phone making a lunch date at your tourney with the very person I had the conflict with when I received the call. We were over it and putting it behind us as we had a long standing friendship prior to that and I know him to be a good person, was more than willing and happy to let it be.
Fourthly the previous year I was made to wait almost 7 hours to play my first match because my opponent was still in final four of the 9 ball event. Only to find out the other 3 people in the same predicament were sent to rest and told to come in at 8 am to play those matches before the Saturday 9 am start time, which would have been fine for me. Yes I said I would wait and not to worry but never dreamed it would be 7 hours. That is a long time, especially when I was nearly the only single parent there with my two boys, this caused a lil problem as u might imagine, not an excuse but it didn't help my performance at nearly 2 am when I finally played!!!
I also waited a month in which time I contacted you approximately 3 tomes a week and each time was told or promised it was being handled! Which didn't actually happen till I posted on AZ!!! Coincidence? I think not!!! I think now you did it just to save face not because you always try to do the right thing. The right thing would have been to stay the hell out of my personal issues and trust me when I assured you after a 20 plus year long trouble free relationship, that there would be no issues! I have never done anything bit support this event from the 2nd year it was held. You were still sour about me getting mad about the 7 hour wait the previous year and mentioning it in some chats last year. This was personal and it was based on the fact that the guy I had the beef with was practically a local. Last year I spent nearly $2k in your Calcutta as I have many times over the years! You say people were not gonna come if I played....kinda funny when I received hundreds of messages of support in the previous two weeks, because the situation that happened to spark all this was immoral, unethical, and wrong in every way. False accusations were slung at me in front of family and friends, including my 12 and 7 year old boys! I had every right to be upset! However I did react very harshly and probably inappropriately, which I also stated publicly with an apology for the severity of my reaction, I will never apologize for the reason it happened! Anyone who knew or witnessed the events of two weeks earlier knew I was not only right, but I was vindicated instantly. Bottom line is it was none of your damn business and you never once cared to get my point of view!!! I have every text and email and Facebook post saved to ensure I would not be misquoted or judged one sidedly, yet it happened. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? In 20 plus years I never gave cause for you to think I would cause trouble at your event, my word should have been sufficient! Paint this how you want but you all were unfair from the start to the end, the end which didn't come until I came on this forum telling what happened. Without that I don't believe I would have ever been paid! How do you even begin to justify the way any of this was handled? It was tainted from the get go!!! Now to say I will never be allowed back, WOW, obviously no one involved wants to look me in the eye knowing how out of bounds you all acted!!! That is fine with me, it a least have the guts to tell the truth about what and why it happened! You all screwed a long time supporter and you are rightfully ashamed, that is the truth and we all know it, I beg you to say different!!! If u choose to deny this as fact know that I will go out of my way to put you on front street in front of God and everyone. Your decisions are yours but at least be willing to be accountable for them!!!


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As I continue to read posts I continue to notice things. Interesting fact that I am not the first one to be slow played on money being returned, probably just another coincidence???? And also my horse was coming with me and being paid for by me, when I was banned you knew full well he wasn't coming or you could have asked!
As far as flier stating no refunds, I think that applies to people who by their own will do not attend for whatever reason, I was not allowed to play, slightly different than no showing or changing my plans. Also I would have had to accept no pay back if I was told no refunds but I was told by Murna in the very same phone call I was notified of not being allowed that my entries (plural) would be refunded! And also told 2 or 3 times weekly in every one of our conversations that you were handling it and so on! Don't renig by saying no refunds was policy when you all said and promised them back because of the unusual circumstances. At what point do you accept and admit that not allowing me to play and slow playing my refund was in any way the right thing! You know full well it was wrong! You blocked me on FB, nearly forcing me to this forum to tell my story! I clearly told you that I was a widowed father of two boys and that although $230 wasn't much too your gazillion dollar casino and oil boom, it was very important and hurtful to me and my boys who lived on a fixed income! You agreed that you knew that and the very next time I asked you on FB why it hadn't been done you blocked me! Very teenager like in my opinion! Funny how all the details are left out, because you don't wanna get into it, somehow I feel the devil is in the details and no wonder you wouldn't want everyone to know the details, I wouldn't either in your shoes!!!

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