Here is an interesting letter from Bob Treff about Frank Sailor Stillman. It is meant to help people evaluate 14.1 Hall of Fame nominees but it is interesting in its own right to Straight Pool Fans.
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Frank "Sailor" Stellman
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Dennis:
I'm not around these parts as often as I used to (or as much as I'd like to), but when I make a visit, it's a real treat to encounter posts such as this. What an enjoyable read! Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and share it!
Personally, I think *all* nominees to the HOF should have a write-up like this one, so that folks can read them, and make a choice based on solid information, and not "dust off the file cabinets in one's own mind" memories about a particular player.
Great stuff!
-Sean
I'm not around these parts as often as I used to (or as much as I'd like to), but when I make a visit, it's a real treat to encounter posts such as this. What an enjoyable read! Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and share it!
Personally, I think *all* nominees to the HOF should have a write-up like this one, so that folks can read them, and make a choice based on solid information, and not "dust off the file cabinets in one's own mind" memories about a particular player.
Great stuff!
-Sean
More Sailor
Thanks, Sean. I think, even HOF aside, it is an interesting read. Here is something that Willibetmore put up after visiting Sailor a few years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=238333&highlight=Sailor
And here is an article that George Fels wrote for Billiards Digest about Sailor a few years back.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showblogentry.php?id=84
You are right again, Sean. I know next to nothing about Nagy. I guess he taught some New Yorkers and he could run some balls. I think I heard that he blasted the heck out of his break shots. Might have been a musician. That's about it.
Thanks, Sean. I think, even HOF aside, it is an interesting read. Here is something that Willibetmore put up after visiting Sailor a few years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=238333&highlight=Sailor
And here is an article that George Fels wrote for Billiards Digest about Sailor a few years back.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showblogentry.php?id=84
You are right again, Sean. I know next to nothing about Nagy. I guess he taught some New Yorkers and he could run some balls. I think I heard that he blasted the heck out of his break shots. Might have been a musician. That's about it.
I could add a little to the saga, which is by no means over.
I first met Sailor in Oct. 1943 when I was home for boot leave from the Navy. The U.S. Navy that is. I had been playing pool for about 3 years at that time. I was playing pool with one of the owners, Dick Mann and Sailor says he even remembers which table we were playing on. Sailor was working there. I think this was well before He ran his first 100.
I skipped school a lot. One day as I was walking out the back door of the school after having just walked in the front I met a friend who was doing the same thing. His name is Nick Matto. He's dead but that's still his name. Nick said, what should we do? I, having recently been introduced to the game of pool said, why don't we play some pool? Nick replied, I don't know to play and I don't have any money. I said, that's okay, I have a dime and that's enough for two games. So we went to the pool room and I handed Nick a cue, told him every thing I knew about the game, which took a good 10 seconds and we player a game of rotation, which I won. That was the last time I beat Nick in a game of pool for about 60 years, but that's another story. We player another game which he won and my dime was gone so we moved on. Within a couple of weeks Nick was beating everyone in town. Nick had only one eye. He lost one in a rubber gun fight when he was nine. This was 1940. I played a lot of pool in that three year period before going into the Navy. Later Nick and Sailor became close friends and I think it was Nick taught Sailor for some time and later they taught each other.
Dave Nelson
I first met Sailor in Oct. 1943 when I was home for boot leave from the Navy. The U.S. Navy that is. I had been playing pool for about 3 years at that time. I was playing pool with one of the owners, Dick Mann and Sailor says he even remembers which table we were playing on. Sailor was working there. I think this was well before He ran his first 100.
I skipped school a lot. One day as I was walking out the back door of the school after having just walked in the front I met a friend who was doing the same thing. His name is Nick Matto. He's dead but that's still his name. Nick said, what should we do? I, having recently been introduced to the game of pool said, why don't we play some pool? Nick replied, I don't know to play and I don't have any money. I said, that's okay, I have a dime and that's enough for two games. So we went to the pool room and I handed Nick a cue, told him every thing I knew about the game, which took a good 10 seconds and we player a game of rotation, which I won. That was the last time I beat Nick in a game of pool for about 60 years, but that's another story. We player another game which he won and my dime was gone so we moved on. Within a couple of weeks Nick was beating everyone in town. Nick had only one eye. He lost one in a rubber gun fight when he was nine. This was 1940. I played a lot of pool in that three year period before going into the Navy. Later Nick and Sailor became close friends and I think it was Nick taught Sailor for some time and later they taught each other.
Dave Nelson
I could add a little to the saga, which is by no means over.
I first met Sailor in Oct. 1943 when I was home for boot leave from the Navy. The U.S. Navy that is. I had been playing pool for about 3 years at that time. I was playing pool with one of the owners, Dick Mann and Sailor says he even remembers which table we were playing on. Sailor was working there. I think this was well before He ran his first 100.
I skipped school a lot. One day as I was walking out the back door of the school after having just walked in the front I met a friend who was doing the same thing. His name is Nick Matto. He's dead but that's still his name. Nick said, what should we do? I, having recently been introduced to the game of pool said, why don't we play some pool? Nick replied, I don't know to play and I don't have any money. I said, that's okay, I have a dime and that's enough for two games. So we went to the pool room and I handed Nick a cue, told him every thing I knew about the game, which took a good 10 seconds and we player a game of rotation, which I won. That was the last time I beat Nick in a game of pool for about 60 years, but that's another story. We played another game which he won and my dime was gone so we moved on. Within a couple of weeks Nick was beating everyone in town. Nick had only one eye. He lost one in a rubber gun fight when he was nine. This was 1940. I played a lot of pool in that three year period before going into the Navy. Later Nick and Sailor became close friends and I think it was Nick taught Sailor for some time and later they taught each other.
Dave Nelson
I first met Sailor in Oct. 1943 when I was home for boot leave from the Navy. The U.S. Navy that is. I had been playing pool for about 3 years at that time. I was playing pool with one of the owners, Dick Mann and Sailor says he even remembers which table we were playing on. Sailor was working there. I think this was well before He ran his first 100.
I skipped school a lot. One day as I was walking out the back door of the school after having just walked in the front I met a friend who was doing the same thing. His name is Nick Matto. He's dead but that's still his name. Nick said, what should we do? I, having recently been introduced to the game of pool said, why don't we play some pool? Nick replied, I don't know to play and I don't have any money. I said, that's okay, I have a dime and that's enough for two games. So we went to the pool room and I handed Nick a cue, told him every thing I knew about the game, which took a good 10 seconds and we player a game of rotation, which I won. That was the last time I beat Nick in a game of pool for about 60 years, but that's another story. We played another game which he won and my dime was gone so we moved on. Within a couple of weeks Nick was beating everyone in town. Nick had only one eye. He lost one in a rubber gun fight when he was nine. This was 1940. I played a lot of pool in that three year period before going into the Navy. Later Nick and Sailor became close friends and I think it was Nick taught Sailor for some time and later they taught each other.
Dave Nelson
Sorry for the double post. I was just trying to
get it too fit the page. I still don't understand what
I did wrong but I don't think it's worth
another try.
Dave Nelson
get it too fit the page. I still don't understand what
I did wrong but I don't think it's worth
another try.
Dave Nelson
For the record the guy Sailor played was Don Tozer from Decatur, IL., not Toza. And Sailor studied under Joe Diehl with and "i" from Rockford, and the famous poolroom in Philly was Allinger's, not Allenger's.
Just trying to help.
Beard
Dave: Thanks for the story. I knew that you had known him for a long time, but your story goes WAAAAY back. Thanks
Good work, Freddy. I knew about Diehl since I was born in Rockford, but not the other two corrections. Since Treff sent the document as a pdf, it is a little hard to fix, but I will let him know the corrections, too, so that the original info is right.
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The Bill Lawson that was mentioned--wasn't from South Carolina--he was from Winston Salem North Carolina--I traveled some with Bill and other great players--and Bill could play. Back in the early 80's at a tourny at Guys and Dolls Billards--Bill ran the session out in the final race to 9 against no other than Allen Hopkins--won the lag and then Allen sat in his chair untill it was over--Salior must have been one increadable player in his day,,,to beat Bill--
EDIT --Bill also helped a younger player develop his break when coming along--Wade Crane
Edit--Didn't catch the write up from Mr Fels concerning the above--Wade was right,,Bill was unbeatable in his time--Sailor Played GOOD
EDIT --Bill also helped a younger player develop his break when coming along--Wade Crane
Edit--Didn't catch the write up from Mr Fels concerning the above--Wade was right,,Bill was unbeatable in his time--Sailor Played GOOD
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I played yesterday with a man who is one of Sailors closest friends and student for many years. He told me that Sailor is not doing well. His foot, among other problems is giving him a bad time.
Dave Nelson
P.S. He beat me.
Dave Nelson
P.S. He beat me.
Who did you play, Dave? Treff or Lee?
I spoke to Sailor Friday. He had been back in the hospital to do another skin graft on his foot. His diabetes causes some problems and he has been up and down on his foot for at least the last six months. He visited Red Shoes a few months ago and was able to hobble around. He is back in the wheel chair due to the latest skin graft.
Mentally, he is alert as ever and excited about pool and straight pool. I gave him a report on the runs and the players and the matches from the Derby City Straight Pool Challenge. We talked about his former student Mark Wilson and the Mosconi Cup, and the students that Mark is teaching and commentary on Accu-Stats by Mark and others. I sent him a new student about a month ago and he spent about nine hours with the guy.
I understand that Mark Wilson would love to have Sailor make the trip down to see his students some time. Perhaps in the spring.
Lee. 125 vs 76
Dave
Dave
I think that Sailor is the only one likely to have any of that.