FS section needs a massive revamp...here's an idea
- Thread starter Shawn Armstrong
- Start date
phillygirl
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I'm not bitter about this, unfortunately you seem to be. Some people may try to price gouge and others don't. If I could afford a higher end cue, there are quite a few I've seen listed here that I'd buy. I'm just one person trying to sell a cue that I like but don't use because I need the extra cash at the moment and it would be nice to know my solitary listing would have a chance to be seen.
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There are a ton of reasons that the F/S section does not work and you can't blame it all on the dealers or brokers. No, you need to look in the mirror to see the problem.
The real issue is that not many want to pay the asking prices for cues. Everybody EXPECTS to get killer deals on cues. This is good for the short run and for the buyer, but, the seller is often times out money to sell a cue. So, how do you rationalize buying cues to just turn around and take a big hit when you decide to sell a cue? This is not self sustaining and leaves only a few options open for the seller.
In general, I don't see as many cues selling today as I had last year or the year before that. This hurts the dealers and builders because they are not making money. If you don't make money with your business, you close shop. Would you work for free or for less than your current wage if the business you work for is not making it?
I do agree that some of the cues are overpriced to an extent. There are probably more on the boards that are priced right than are overpriced. Fact of the matter is that nothing is selling other than a few cues that were given away to just get out from under them.
The real issue is that not many want to pay the asking prices for cues. Everybody EXPECTS to get killer deals on cues. This is good for the short run and for the buyer, but, the seller is often times out money to sell a cue. So, how do you rationalize buying cues to just turn around and take a big hit when you decide to sell a cue? This is not self sustaining and leaves only a few options open for the seller.
In general, I don't see as many cues selling today as I had last year or the year before that. This hurts the dealers and builders because they are not making money. If you don't make money with your business, you close shop. Would you work for free or for less than your current wage if the business you work for is not making it?
I do agree that some of the cues are overpriced to an extent. There are probably more on the boards that are priced right than are overpriced. Fact of the matter is that nothing is selling other than a few cues that were given away to just get out from under them.
Very few cues are investments. They are expenses. If I buy a brand new car, drive it for a few months, and then decide to sell, the mere action of taking it off the lot means I just lost about 15% by driving off the dealer's lot.
Sorry, but when I see people selling cues that are "test hit only", that's a load of crap. If you chalked and played the cue, it's USED. If it's a production cue, that means the warranty is completely gone, seeing as the warranty only applies to the original purchaser. You cannot justify a pricetag of pretty much what you paid for it.
People who understand that they can't get full retail for a used cue seem to do well. The other thing I have noticed is the people selling new cues at prices that are the exact same as any online billiards dealer. Not exactly a deal. Some are actually more expensive than other websites. Hardy the killer deal you think we seem to be looking for.
Stuff that is reasonably or fairly priced sells. If you have had a cue for sale for over a month, you either have an undesirable cue, or your price is out to lunch. Or both. I just hate having to scroll through the first 7 pages looking at cues, and 98% of them were cues I saw two days ago that haven't sold, and two days before that, etc, etc.
The consensus seems to be that the number one problem by far is the cue dealers because of the sheer numbers of their listings along with how long their ads often stay active due to unrealistic pricing. Seems almost unanimous that people feel dealers are a big problem except for obviously the dealers themselves. The second biggest issue most people seem to have is that cues of all prices are lumped together in one forum which means having to look through and click on bunches and bunches of cues just to find the few that might interest you.
The obvious solution would seem to be to split the main for sale section into various sub-forums, but most people won't go to more than a couple of forum sections in a visit so if you have too many sub-forums the number of people that see any one cue goes down a good bit which isn't good either. If you tried to separate dealer and private sales, and customs cues from production cues, and all the different price ranges of cues, etc, you would easily end up with over a dozen sub-forums.
The single catch all main cue sale category that we have right now obviously isn't working at all either though, so a good compromise is in order. Maybe something like just four categories being: Dealer under $1,000, Dealer over $1,000, Private sale under $1,000, and Private sale over $1,000.
Dealer could be defined as:
-anyone with a website with cues
-listing more than four cues within a year (package deals with multiple cues that are sold together would count as one cue)
-listing more than two cues within thirty days
-anyone known to be a dealer, broker, flipper, etc--basically anyone who is known to not just be selling personal cues from their collection
An alternative solution to the above would be to just keep the single category we have now but require that the asking price and maker of the cue be listed first and second in the title of every ad. Examples: "$1,800 OBO Joss West 4 pt beauty with yada yada" or "$475 OBO Mezz yada yada...". Anyone who doesn't list the price first and maker second has their ad deleted immediately. Listing in this way would make it very quick and easy for everyone to be able to quickly skim down the pages and weed out what you know you would never have any interest in based on price and maker.
Another great benefit of the price first, maker second in the thread title is that because a thread title cannot ever be changed, people will think twice before listing their ad with an outrageous and completely unrealistic starting price because they know that they will be stuck with it in the title forever and it will lead to fewer views of people actually clicking and opening their ad. They are likely to be a little more reasonable and realistic about their starting asking price. The other rule would have to be that there can be no relisting of the same cue in a new ad otherwise people will just list with an outrageous price and if no sucker bites they just make a new ad with a slightly lower price and just continue to do this over and over (which already happens to a smaller extent now) which just clogs up the forum and hurts everybody else.
You can also do the price first, maker second thread title requirement even if we go to two (or more) sub-forums, like say dealer and private seller sub-forums, and just still require the asking price first and cue maker second in all thread titles. The more that I think about it, the more that I like this requirement whether we stay with one main category or go to several sub-forums. I say we try it in the main for sale forum first and see how well it works, and if it doesn't make enough of a difference then split the main into two sub-forums, those being dealer and private sale (and still require asking price first and cue maker second in all thread titles).
The obvious solution would seem to be to split the main for sale section into various sub-forums, but most people won't go to more than a couple of forum sections in a visit so if you have too many sub-forums the number of people that see any one cue goes down a good bit which isn't good either. If you tried to separate dealer and private sales, and customs cues from production cues, and all the different price ranges of cues, etc, you would easily end up with over a dozen sub-forums.
The single catch all main cue sale category that we have right now obviously isn't working at all either though, so a good compromise is in order. Maybe something like just four categories being: Dealer under $1,000, Dealer over $1,000, Private sale under $1,000, and Private sale over $1,000.
Dealer could be defined as:
-anyone with a website with cues
-listing more than four cues within a year (package deals with multiple cues that are sold together would count as one cue)
-listing more than two cues within thirty days
-anyone known to be a dealer, broker, flipper, etc--basically anyone who is known to not just be selling personal cues from their collection
An alternative solution to the above would be to just keep the single category we have now but require that the asking price and maker of the cue be listed first and second in the title of every ad. Examples: "$1,800 OBO Joss West 4 pt beauty with yada yada" or "$475 OBO Mezz yada yada...". Anyone who doesn't list the price first and maker second has their ad deleted immediately. Listing in this way would make it very quick and easy for everyone to be able to quickly skim down the pages and weed out what you know you would never have any interest in based on price and maker.
Another great benefit of the price first, maker second in the thread title is that because a thread title cannot ever be changed, people will think twice before listing their ad with an outrageous and completely unrealistic starting price because they know that they will be stuck with it in the title forever and it will lead to fewer views of people actually clicking and opening their ad. They are likely to be a little more reasonable and realistic about their starting asking price. The other rule would have to be that there can be no relisting of the same cue in a new ad otherwise people will just list with an outrageous price and if no sucker bites they just make a new ad with a slightly lower price and just continue to do this over and over (which already happens to a smaller extent now) which just clogs up the forum and hurts everybody else.
You can also do the price first, maker second thread title requirement even if we go to two (or more) sub-forums, like say dealer and private seller sub-forums, and just still require the asking price first and cue maker second in all thread titles. The more that I think about it, the more that I like this requirement whether we stay with one main category or go to several sub-forums. I say we try it in the main for sale forum first and see how well it works, and if it doesn't make enough of a difference then split the main into two sub-forums, those being dealer and private sale (and still require asking price first and cue maker second in all thread titles).
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I'm down with the sub sections...
Dealers flood the page with posts from months ago... The problem isn't people trying to get that sweet deal... Most of the cues on there are overpriced... And lately, the "bigger" sellers don't even post photos... They just say shit like "who wants a titlist Scruggs, got one coming soon... Message me"
WTF!?!?!
Dealers flood the page with posts from months ago... The problem isn't people trying to get that sweet deal... Most of the cues on there are overpriced... And lately, the "bigger" sellers don't even post photos... They just say shit like "who wants a titlist Scruggs, got one coming soon... Message me"
WTF!?!?!
The FS section isn't what it was 10 or so years ago but it is what it is and better than nothing. The owners of the forum are wise to not make changes that would result in fewer eyeballs coming to the forum pages. It's probably no surprise that the super regulars here are not customers in the FS section, at least for new cues.
Since the forum began social media has grown and has taken a large share of cue sales interest and activity. During the same time sales of new custom cues at shows like SBE has declined considerably too. I still enjoy participating here in FS and other areas--even though it isnt as robust as it used to be.
Since the forum began social media has grown and has taken a large share of cue sales interest and activity. During the same time sales of new custom cues at shows like SBE has declined considerably too. I still enjoy participating here in FS and other areas--even though it isnt as robust as it used to be.
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Don't think Facebook is a walk in the park either. Someone who posts here and said he would never "censor" his group, has the most censored billiard for sale group there is.
There are scammers there even USING their real names.. no fear. There are probably 50 or so "for sale" groups, and that might be a low number. Everyone wants to have "The place".. and you can't be in them all... its a pain in the a$$. I wish they (AZ) would have sub-grouped the for sale section, it definitely would help keep it organized.
It's an interesting dynamic for sure.
JV
There are scammers there even USING their real names.. no fear. There are probably 50 or so "for sale" groups, and that might be a low number. Everyone wants to have "The place".. and you can't be in them all... its a pain in the a$$. I wish they (AZ) would have sub-grouped the for sale section, it definitely would help keep it organized.
It's an interesting dynamic for sure.
JV
In perusing the first couple pages I was thinking the suggestion of thread titles being
orderly would be trending, ...umm, nope.
Policing such a thing would be no fun -- picture starting your day with a thread title
ticketing cup of coffee, I wouldn't want to be the first thread title ticketing agents table
opponent, well, yeah, then there's this deanco fellow.
orderly would be trending, ...umm, nope.
Policing such a thing would be no fun -- picture starting your day with a thread title
ticketing cup of coffee, I wouldn't want to be the first thread title ticketing agents table
opponent, well, yeah, then there's this deanco fellow.
I would like the "wanted" section to be removed altogether. No one goes there or looks there. Put the wanted threads back into the sale section! Back in the day, posting a wanted ad in the for sale forum could get you multiple PM's with what you were looking for. Nowadays, posting in the wanted section is basically the same as not posting at all. No looks, no responses, waste of time..
