Full Time Push Out...

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1971

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm familiar with the rule where, after the break in 9 or 10 ball, you're allowed to push out and the incoming player has the option of taking the shot or giving it back to you. How about playing with the push out rule always in effect. Has this been discussed before? I think it would make the game more interesting for everyone. I'd rather watch a strategic situation with two top players using this rule than watch them hooking each other and and forcing a kick or jump shot. Jumping and kicking might happen more often than one would estimate while playing full time push out. Instead of being forced to jump or kick, you might see players willingly hook themselves because of the confidence they have for the kick, jump, or bank shot they purposely set up and hope it's given back to them. Would full time push out slow down matches? Just wondering....
 
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I believe these are the best rules and always used them when gambling

This has been discussed quite a bit. I believe these are the best rules and always used them when gambling (as did everyone else in the 70's80's).

I have been working on a game that has the correct balance of shot-making, strategy and technical demands......pool is very interesting watch, however, the shot making must be featured. imho


1971 said:
I'm familiar with the rule where, after the break in 9 or 10 ball, you're allowed to push out and the incoming player has the option of taking the shot or giving it back to you. How about playing with the push out rule always in effect. Has this been discussed before? I think it would make the game more interesting for everyone. I'd rather watch a strategic situation with two top players using this rule than watch them hooking each other and and forcing a kick or jump shot. It might happen more often than one would estimate while playing full time push out. Instead of being forced to jump or kick, you might see players willingly hook themselves because of the confidence they have for the kick or jump shot they purposely set up and hope it's given back to them. Would full time push out slow down matches? Just wondering....
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I like it!

1971 said:
I'm familiar with the rule where, after the break in 9 or 10 ball, you're allowed to push out and the incoming player has the option of taking the shot or giving it back to you. How about playing with the push out rule always in effect. Has this been discussed before? I think it would make the game more interesting for everyone. I'd rather watch a strategic situation with two top players using this rule than watch them hooking each other and and forcing a kick or jump shot. Jumping and kicking might happen more often than one would estimate while playing full time push out. Instead of being forced to jump or kick, you might see players willingly hook themselves because of the confidence they have for the kick or jump shot they purposely set up and hope it's given back to them. Would full time push out slow down matches? Just wondering....
Click to expand...

Even if not used in every tournament it would be cool to see it tried, good idea.
 
That was how they played.

Then one day at a televised tournament they were explaining to the players they needed to speed the game up.
Grady spoke up and said if you really want to speed things up make every foul ball in hand!
That was that.
I think every miss should be ball in hand including the break.
It would make it more like straight.
Miss you loose,
Nick :)
 
Im in opposition of this simply because it takes away creative safety play.

Wutang
 
I would like to see a push out option if the opponent missed a called shot but left you hooked by mistake. Then the incoming player can either push out, play it or give the shot back as is, then the first player can elect to either push out or play it. Not just to push out when you are hooked during a safety.
 
Having the OPTIONS of
1) a push-out or 2)
having the opponent take the shot like (hang-the-9) describes where a lucky missed shot leaves you hooked is a good idea --- Just like American Rotation rules allow for any missed shot.


LIVFST
 
nick serdula said:
Then one day at a televised tournament they were explaining to the players they needed to speed the game up.
Grady spoke up and said if you really want to speed things up make every foul ball in hand!
That was that.
I think every miss should be ball in hand including the break.
It would make it more like straight.
Miss you loose,
Nick :)
Click to expand...

Can you cite a source please.

Back when this was still America nobody played push out - they played real
Nine Ball. An 'honest effort' to hit the ball was required on all shots, much
in the same way as the Brits played Snooker.

Push Out was started at the Jansco's Johnston City tourney to speed up the game.
So, everybody, everywhere, started playing that way. The much maligned Three Foul
Loss of Game was also concocted, for the same reason

AFAIK - and I may not know too far, One Foul was instituted because Push Out
could also devolve into a coma inducing series of lag outs. I have never heard that
Grady, or TV had anything to do with it. Jay likely also saw the match in Dayton
for the 9 Ball finals - or maybe semis between Buddy Hall and David Matlock(?)

35 mind numbing minuets to complete the first game.

I rest my case.

Dale
 
Two foul

CJ Wiley said:
This has been discussed quite a bit. I believe these are the best rules and always used them when gambling (as did everyone else in the 70's80's).

I have been working on a game that has the correct balance of shot-making, strategy and technical demands......pool is very interesting watch, however, the shot making must be featured. imho
Click to expand...

Two foul ball in hand, or push on any shot was the way I saw money players playing 9-ball in the '50s. It was also used by the NPBA eight ball leagues in the '60s and '70s.

It made a great game, but not "offensive" enough for most players.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I would like to see a push out option if the opponent missed a called shot but left you hooked by mistake. Then the incoming player can either push out, play it or give the shot back as is, then the first player can elect to either push out or play it. Not just to push out when you are hooked during a safety.
Click to expand...

I like the idea but I'd eliminate the requirement of "left you hooked." i.e. if your opponent misses a called shot you can push out (regardless of hooked/not hooked). If not, there will be too many disagreements about whether or not a player is hooked.

Perhaps the right rule would be if your opponent misses a called shot you can push out, or give the shot back to him but he is not allowed to push out.
 
CJ Wiley said:
This has been discussed quite a bit. I believe these are the best rules and always used them when gambling (as did everyone else in the 70's80's).

I have been working on a game that has the correct balance of shot-making, strategy and technical demands......pool is very interesting watch, however, the shot making must be featured. imho
Click to expand...
I like the idea of the incoming player being able to push out. I don't like it when he gets himself in trouble and can just push out. Total push out can also give some players a little edge.

I used to play Riche Ambrose, (Not even of course), and he would push out to thin cuts. He amazingly could make these, he somehow would spin them in. You had to either play safe or take a the low % shot. You could not give it back to him.

The same when playing a bank pool player, they push out to banks they can make. The bank player can be the worst because you are tempted to shoot the low % bank and may sell out.
He doesn't care one way or the other. He is happy to see you shoot or get the shot back. They can get you kind of over a barrel.
 
1971 said:
I'm familiar with the rule where, after the break in 9 or 10 ball, you're allowed to push out and the incoming player has the option of taking the shot or giving it back to you. How about playing with the push out rule always in effect. Has this been discussed before? I think it would make the game more interesting for everyone. I'd rather watch a strategic situation with two top players using this rule than watch them hooking each other and and forcing a kick or jump shot. Jumping and kicking might happen more often than one would estimate while playing full time push out. Instead of being forced to jump or kick, you might see players willingly hook themselves because of the confidence they have for the kick or jump shot they purposely set up and hope it's given back to them. Would full time push out slow down matches? Just wondering....
Click to expand...

This simplified, dumbed down version of nine ball also has the problem of reducing the penalty for position poorly played. If you hook yourself, you should pay the max penalty and that's having to play the shot.

For this fan, defense and two way shots are the most interesting part of rotational games. You can take them away but you can't make me watch!
 
While we're at it why not move 1st base 15 feet closer to home in baseball, make 2 completions a first down in football, and lower the NBA basket to 8 ft.

It does not matter what you change, the better players will still be the better players.
 
Sadly, one of the other effects of TE, unfortunately, was the disappearance of the spot shot.

Some of you younger players may have to google that term.
 
nick serdula said:
Then one day at a televised tournament they were explaining to the players they needed to speed the game up.
Grady spoke up and said if you really want to speed things up make every foul ball in hand!
That was that.
I think every miss should be ball in hand including the break.
It would make it more like straight.
Miss you loose,
Nick :)
Click to expand...

And he knew how terribley boring pool was to watch when it because a Chess game that's why you don't see the best gambling game one pocket on TV. ,
TV people have known this for yrs , every sport has done something to produce a faster higher scoring game ,, only true purists , what to see a 1-0 baseball game , or a 3-0 football game ,, the more the offense the more the viewing it's really not that hard to understand

1
 
one stroke said:
TV people have known this for yrs , every sport has done something to produce a faster higher scoring game ,, only true purists , what to see a 1-0 baseball game , or a 3-0 football game ,, the more the offense the more the viewing it's really not that hard to understand

1
Click to expand...

Agreed, with the exception of the most boring (and most popular) game in the world: soccer.
 
CJ Wiley said:
This has been discussed quite a bit. I believe these are the best rules and always used them when gambling (as did everyone else in the 70's80's).

I have been working on a game that has the correct balance of shot-making, strategy and technical demands......pool is very interesting watch, however, the shot making must be featured. imho
Click to expand...

I got a game:) how about make 10-ball a points game to 33! Each ball is worth 1 point and the 10 is worth 2!

Rules are simple, break and balls pocketed counted! The breaker has to push out first shot! Incoming player has option to shoot or give it back! Player who shoots has to call ball and pocket and can only score 2 points per inning. After the second point is made, they have to push, and the incoming player has the option to take it or not. No safe shots, all shots have to be a called shot and if a shot is missed, the incoming player has option to shoot or give it back:)

I think that will speed up the game and make it exciting for viewers! Total racks played can be more than 6! Shot clocks a must! The name of this game,,,, "Eli's 33" only kidding, but it does have a nice ring! But I was thinking the name would be 3-three, or whatever just the game is what I'm looking at;)

Merry Christmas to all! Hopefully all had a safe and relaxing day yesterday:)
 
if another player cuts, banks or makes long shots better you simply practice

I played Richey Ambrose down in Orlando Florida back when he had a pool room there. He was famous for being able to spin those tough cuts in, you are right. However, there's ways to disarm players from their favorite shots....and this happened to Richie.

Playing "one foul" those shots will seldom come up (even entertaining situations rarely come up) and you'll see basically the same thing {virtually} every match.....breaking/racking/kicking/ducking/easy run outs.

John Brumback plays "bank pool" much better than me, although I wouldn't hesitate to play him these '2 Foul Shootout'.....and we did play many years ago, and his banking is tremendously challenging to deal with.......and it can be done.

You see, if another player cuts, banks or makes long shots better you simply practice these shots until you improve.....or they will continue to beat you.

This isn't true in "one foul," the only thing you really need to practice is breaking, kicking and ducking......and maybe 5 minutes on "running out". ;)



macguy said:
I like the idea of the incoming player being able to push out. I don't like it when he gets himself in trouble and can just push out. Total push out can also give some players a little edge.

I used to play Riche Ambrose, (Not even of course), and he would push out to thin cuts. He amazingly could make these, he somehow would spin them in. You had to either play safe or take a the low % shot. You could not give it back to him.

The same when playing a bank pool player, they push out to banks they can make. The bank player can be the worst because you are tempted to shoot the low % bank and may sell out.
He doesn't care one way or the other. He is happy to see you shoot or get the shot back. They can get you kind of over a barrel.
Click to expand...
 
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