FYI Robotic Testing and "CORKED" Shafts

ratnip said:
Hello AZ’rs,

I have been a member of this community for many years and have recently ordered a custom cue from John. John’s customer service and communication thus far has been outstanding. He has answered all of my questions, concerns and provided honest feedback tailored to my individual needs as a customer.

A few reasons why I choose to purchase a cue from John are as follows (in no particular order):

Over the past year or so I have never seen one of his cues on the secondary market (please consider that he’s made and sold 300+ cues in the past 10 years).

Secondly, he tailors the cue handle to fit the customers hand dimensions, meaning it will be the same diameter.

Lastly, he claims to make the lowest deflecting shaft in the world, which I want to own. He substantiates this claim with robot testing via video (video isn’t Hollywood HD theater quality).

The way I see it is John came on here with a public service notification for which he was belittled, ridiculed and criticized. I believe he made every attempt to confidently stand behind his product and service by actually responding to most posts. He still is answering posts this morning.

By no means will I ever buy a shaft for $600; however, this appears to be his highest quality shaft that he does have in LIMITED quantities for customers. Presently it appears he has over 300 satisfied customers, of which a few might be interested in the A++ shaft.

Suggestion for John: Maybe you should have posted in the Wanted/For Sale section as it appears there are provisions that protect sellers…such as the following:
6) If you are going to post in another's sale or trade thread, if you are knocking their thread, you will receive warnings and bans as with regular rule violations.
7) You have no right to criticize or complain regarding pictures, prices etc.
8) Everyone is expected to participate in a civil manner and if there are violations, you may report them anonymously via the "report post " button in the upper right hand corner of each post.
9) Either buy from an individual or don't but knocking them is not an option.

Jay P. providing honest feedback to the community involving my interactions with John Barioni as requested by the community.
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This is a very fair post. As is the one on page 8 by doubleD. The guy is clearly super confident and yes he got a little out of line with the betting posts but remember guys, THIS IS A PERSONS LIFE'S WORK that is being ridiculed here.

Anyway Baroni, keep tuning and working and remember the old song "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus........".
 
dkleather said:
...The guy is clearly super confident and yes he got a little out of line with the betting posts but remember guys, THIS IS A PERSONS LIFE'S WORK that is being ridiculed here...
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I think your point is very good here. Your assessment about being a "little out of line" may be correct, but coming into this thread the first striking thing was that he was basically heavily attacked in dogpile fashion just based on the price of his shafts.

I notice this a lot on AZ, the second something is priced out of reach of the majority of people here, or at some price that is out of line with the perceived norm, posters will come in and dog pile on it.

Some will say it wasnt about the price, but his claims... But I would bet money that if his price was like $100 all of a sudden there would be a lot of polite interest in his product. Overall he's not claiming anything different than many other equipment manfactures... Predator, OB, etc... His price is hight, but it is his price, some will think it's reasonable, some not... But it's up to him to value the product of his work, and he's not forcing anybody to buy his cue shafts.
 
ratnip said:
Hello AZ’rs,

I have been a member of this community for many years and have recently ordered a custom cue from John.
By no means will I ever buy a shaft for $600;
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Thank you.

Next customer testimonial please.


:smile:


.
 
Barioni Cues said:
I know, you all think I am full of it so here is some proof.
Click to expand...

A cue maker posts his glory wall?

As a person who makes his living in a field that in great part has to do with evaluating licenses, certifications, and formal credentials I have to say that post proves nothing.


Mr Baioni, you made an announcement. It wasn't well received. I would suggest it has more to do with how you went about it than meaning anything about the community in which you made the announcement.

Your product is getting a heck of a lot of attention because of it, so maybe you are "crazy like a fox" and just taking advantage of the exposure.

As an observer I have to say it looks like a train wreck and your attempts to support your perspectives only exacerbate it.

At this point I'm just going to wait and see what happens with these shafts. Probably what I should have done anyway, but some of your comments have been so outrageous they begged response (bait?).

There is no doubt that high grade materials and performance tuning in any field is expensive. Such things are very specialized areas of expertise with very specialized markets.

Good luck with your shafts.
 
Barioni Cues said:
This Gina is not for sale. The owner will not sell it. Here are more pics.
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John

Your inflated prices are right in line with your inflated sense of self.

That's a ebony 19A with a Hoppe butt (option), ivory joint (option), leather wrap (option) and upgraded rings (option). There are many many of those cues available. 10 years ago Ernie charged about $2000 for that cue and it might have been worth $2500 BEFORE it was refinished and rewrapped by someone other than Ernie.

The owner is lucky he won't sell the cue, because he can't sell the cue for anywhere what (you claim) he thinks he's worth. I'm sure he was glad to spend $450 to have his 10K cue refinished, but it severely hurt the value of his 2.5K investment.

BTW, you charged more than Ernie would have for that refinish, and your claim that now it is maybe BETTER than when Ernie finished the cue shows just how inflated your claims and thinking are. That puts the rest of your claims in perspective pretty well.

Ernie has no plans to retire. Perhaps he will contact you about taking over his business when he does.

Thanks

Kevin

PS - Could you give me the owner's name and number? With his sense of Gina values I have about 500 cues (including one just like his with a Gina finish on it for only 8K right after I buy Jimmyk's for 2.5) I want to sell him.

PSS - Could you also pass my auction link on to your 19A owner? I have a Gina ending tomorrow worth 3 times what his cue is worth that will go for about 1/2 of his (you claim) perceived value of the one he owns. He should snap it right up. He'd have to settle for a Ernie refinish but he could steal my cue far under the 30K it must be worth, spend $450 with you to do the proper refinish and be way ahead of the game.
 
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ratnip said:
Hello AZ’rs,

I have been a member of this community for many years and have recently ordered a custom cue from John. John’s customer service and communication thus far has been outstanding. He has answered all of my questions, concerns and provided honest feedback tailored to my individual needs as a customer.

A few reasons why I choose to purchase a cue from John are as follows (in no particular order):

Over the past year or so I have never seen one of his cues on the secondary market (please consider that he’s made and sold 300+ cues in the past 10 years).

Secondly, he tailors the cue handle to fit the customers hand dimensions, meaning it will be the same diameter.

Lastly, he claims to make the lowest deflecting shaft in the world, which I want to own. He substantiates this claim with robot testing via video (video isn’t Hollywood HD theater quality).

The way I see it is John came on here with a public service notification for which he was belittled, ridiculed and criticized. I believe he made every attempt to confidently stand behind his product and service by actually responding to most posts. He still is answering posts this morning.

By no means will I ever buy a shaft for $600; however, this appears to be his highest quality shaft that he does have in LIMITED quantities for customers. Presently it appears he has over 300 satisfied customers, of which a few might be interested in the A++ shaft.

Suggestion for John: Maybe you should have posted in the Wanted/For Sale section as it appears there are provisions that protect sellers…such as the following:
6) If you are going to post in another's sale or trade thread, if you are knocking their thread, you will receive warnings and bans as with regular rule violations.
7) You have no right to criticize or complain regarding pictures, prices etc.
8) Everyone is expected to participate in a civil manner and if there are violations, you may report them anonymously via the "report post " button in the upper right hand corner of each post.
9) Either buy from an individual or don't but knocking them is not an option.

Jay P. providing honest feedback to the community involving my interactions with John Barioni as requested by the community.
Click to expand...

Jay

Great stuff. I will look forward to reading your review AFTER you have actually received product from Mr Baroni. I'm sure that right now you have high opinions based on expectations as that's why we all order things. Hopefully the reality of the product will match your expectations and I will be happy to hear your review once that reality takes place.

What do you play with now?

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
Jay

Great stuff. I will look forward to reading your review AFTER you have actually received product from Mr Baroni. I'm sure that right now you have high opinions based on expectations as that's why we all order things. Hopefully the reality of the product will match your expectations and I will be happy to hear your review once that reality takes place.

What do you play with now?

Thanks

Kevin
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Kevin,

I currently am playing with Palmer, 1st Catalog, #6.

Awaiting satisfaction of my expectations.

Jay P.
 
John,

I'll test one for AZ. If Kevin Brewer wants to try it, we'll get together and he can too. I'll have another buddy test it as well. My other buddy is looking for a LS shaft with a good feel.

We can measure the deflection, test the hit.

I have been involved in the development of some of the other low squirt shafts out there. I demo'd the OB Classic for AZ, and helped with the development of the Tiger Pro X and new Ultra LD.

I guarantee you'll get a fair shake. We'll have the shaft back to you in 3 weeks. Can you send me a used one with a radial joint - one that you think represents your style?


Chris
 
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TATE said:
John,

I'll test one for AZ. If Kevin Brewer wants to try it, we'll get together and he can too. I'll have another buddy test it as well. My other buddy is looking for a LS shaft with a good feel.

We can measure the deflection, test the hit.

I have been involved in the development of some of the other low squirt shafts out there. I demo'd the OB Classic for AZ, and helped with the development of the Tiger Pro X. and new Ultra LD.

I guarantee you'll get a fair shake. We'll have the shaft back to you in 3 weeks. Can you send me a used one with a radial joint - one that you think represents your style?


Chris
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Sounds fair to me.
 
TATE said:
John,

I'll test one for AZ. If Kevin Brewer wants to try it, we'll get together and he can too. I'll have another buddy test it as well. My other buddy is looking for a LS shaft with a good feel.

We can measure the deflection, test the hit.

I have been involved in the development of some of the other low squirt shafts out there. I demo'd the OB Classic for AZ, and helped with the development of the Tiger Pro X. and new Ultra LD.

I guarantee you'll get a fair shake. We'll have the shaft back to you in 3 weeks. Can you send me a used one with a radial joint - one that you think represents your style?


Chris
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Chris

Low squirt with feel is intriguing. I've got a Predator Roadline (shhhhhhhh!!!) that has way LD but feels like hitting the ball with a loaf of wheat bread.

I actually really like the idea of a guy making an existing maple shaft into LD. Like I said earlier in the thread, Ernie won't do it and I've tried real hard to get him intrigued by the idea. Its almost impossible to even get him to put his ring work on a LD blank. So the idea is great and the service would be a great idea.

Kevin
 
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kvinbrwr said:
Chris

Low squirt with feel is intriguing. I've got a Predator Roadline (shhhhhhhh!!!) that has way LD but feels like hitting the ball with a loaf of wheat bread.

I actually really like the idea of a guy making an existing maple shaft into LD. Like I said earlier in the thread, Ernie won't do it and I've tried real hard to get him intrigued by the idea. Its almost impossible to even get him to put his ring work on a LD blank. So the idea is great and the service would be a great idea.

Kevin
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There are a couple cue makers in Japan that convert normal shafts into ld shafts.

Keith-Andy does it for 15,000 yen which is roughly 200 USD and a local guy near me does it for 10,000 yen or about 130 USD. Both hit very well. Much more feel than a 314 with similar levels of deflection. If you want to know more pm me.
 
Wow, I actually made it to the end. I'm going to make this short and sweet you guy's are WRONG!!!!!! in every sense of the word. This guy came on here made a post about a service that he was no longer offering, whether you've heard of him or not was no reason to attack him.

Now looking at the Ringwork that was some what out of line, for my dollar would have to be repaired. However with that being said I do find the style and designs of the cues that were posted to be very intrigueing and very much to my taste as I do love a wrapless cue.

As for the price of the shaft, well let me say this Predator Z2 shaft's, and OB's are currently going for $300 +, I'm currently contemplating trying out the OB model like the Z2. I've been playing with LD shafts since 2002 and I have no intention of playing with out one ever at least not in a serious game. At the price of $600 for the A++, probally not, but if one of the lesser wood grades plays the same I'd be interested in seeing what it could do.

And contrary to what you "insert explenetive here" have said I'd buy from this guy 1. Because most importantly I like the design and style of his cues. And 2. Because besides what you think is a "Train Wreck" on gaining business from the people here on AZ from the way you all conducted yourselves I would have told you all to go "insert explentive here" your selves and take a leap. He was at least polite enough to offer to put his money where his mouth is.

Everyone has the RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION!!! BUT NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OR BERATE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING!!! RESPECT GET'S RESPECT!!!

BLACK CAT:cool:
 
I cant believe I spent all this time reading all these posts, I found it very "interesting" to say the least. I am very new to the game but extremely eager to learn and improve, but here are my two cents. Anyone has the right to sell whatever they own for how much they want, Mr Barioni feels his shafts will be worth $600++ then he is entitled to do that, no one is forced to buy his shafts, maybe he is right, maybe his shafts are the most accurate and produce the least amount of squirt out there right now, but; saying that it will make you a great player, or that anyone shooting with this shaft/cue will shoot great, well thats just saying too much. I'll tell you something that happen to me just a couple of weeks ago, I shoot with a Z2 shaft Kamui black tip and I was playing with Earl Strickland down "On The Snap" here in NC, he was teaching me a few things and what not and then he decided he wanted to shoot with my cue for a few racks; Turns out he could barely make any ball that required any kind of english with my cue. For Earl a low deflection shaft just doesnt work, but maybe for someone else an ultra low deflection shaft its the best thing that could happen to their game. This game is about making those damn ball into those elusive 6 pockets, who cares with what shaft you do it as long as you do it, no matter what you are going to need a lot of training and skill.
 
I bet that was a fun conversation. :p

How fortunate you are, getting to play with someone like Earl. That would be a whole 'bother thread, though
 
Chopdoc said:
We have another. Thank you.
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If your going to quote me don't just pull out the part that you think will support your view point. I said if the lower wood grade shafts will shoot the same as the "A++" then probally not. Probally not does not mean "Definately Not" it just means it wouldn't be my first option. If I really like something I'll buy what I want, only the buyer can decide what's to much versus what's not.

Hell for that matter, I know people that have bought $145.00 Lucasi Sneaky Pete's and put $340.00 Predator Shafts on them. Does that make sense? The Shaft cost more than the whole original cue! Who's to say. The buyers have their right to buy what they want if they can justify the price for themselves. So for that reason alone the builder has the right to charge what they wish.

I happen to know T.S. of BB Cues Located here in Maryland, been to his Shop Seen his total operation he make's arguebly one of the Finest Cues on the Planet and also some of the most expensive. And, I think if he decided to make an LD version of his Shafts they wouldn't be low in price either.

My only point to bring mention to this other builder is to just make a point of reference if I could afford one of their cues I wouldn't look for another custom cue from anyother builder. Price aside of course.

Black Cat :cool:
 
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