damage
I've replaced 7 aramith magnetic cue balls due to chips and star-burst impressions on the cue ball.
I've replaced 7 aramith magnetic cue balls due to chips and star-burst impressions on the cue ball.
G-10 tips, should they be banned?
- Thread starter nancewayne
- Start date
16. Balls and Ball Rack
All balls must be composed of cast phenolic resin plastic and measure 2 ¼ (+.005) inches [5.715 cm (+ .127 mm)] in diameter and weigh 5 ½ to 6 oz [156 to 170 gms]. Balls should be unpolished, and should also not be waxed. Balls should be cleaned with a towel or cloth free of dirt and dust, and may also be washed with soap and water. Balls contaminated with any slippery substance - treated with a polishing or rubbing compound and/or waxed - must be cleansed and dewaxed with a clean cloth moistened with diluted alcohol before play.
A complete set of pool balls consists of one white cue ball and fifteen color-coded, numbered object balls. The object balls are clearly and highly visibly numbered 1 through 15. Each object ball has its number printed twice, opposite each other, one of the two numbers upside down, black on a white round background. The object balls numbered 1 through 8 have solid colors as follows: 1=yellow, 2=blue, 3=red, 4=purple, 5=orange, 6=green, 7=maroon and 8=black. The object balls numbered 9 through 15 are white with a centered band of color as follows: 9=yellow, 10=blue, 11=red, 12=purple, 13=orange, 14=green and 15=maroon. The two printed numbers 6 and 9 are underscored.
The wooden triangular ball rack is the recommended device to be used to rack the balls to ensure that the balls are properly aligned and in contact with each other. Both surfaces that can make contact with the table-cloth when moving loaded rack to and fro, should be very smooth in order not to incur any damage to the cloth underneath. Plastic racks are not recommended, they are flexible and tend to deform, making proper racking of balls time-consuming, if not impossible.
We've already allowed phenolic tipmakers to skirt the intent of this rule, so I guess the cat's out of that bag. If we can't go back to the original intent of the rule, I'd settle for no tips harder than the balls (i.e., no G-10s).
pj <- pro balls
chgo
I haven't heard from pool hall owners (or pool table owners). Those that have to supply their own ball sets for play....what experience have they had with pool ball damage?
there's a guy at our local hall that breaks from the exact same spot on every table, whether it be a nine, ten ball or a full rack, leaving huge skid marks all the way to the center of the table. looks awful, especially on a brand new cloth
You don't have to sell your break cue.
You could get my tip system installed, then break with any tip type you like.
At a competition you could use a white diamond or buffalo,or what ever, and at home still use your G-10
I think that it is irresponsible to produce a cue tip that can damage the current technology of cueballs that are in the general circulation.
Neil
For those that disagre with new technologie and those who think jumping and hard breaks should be illegal. Imagine cars if we had never evolved the technology. We would still be cranking by HAND!!! If we limit ourselves then we limit the game from evolving. So the G-10 is harder well figure out a way to make a stronger resin for the balls.
If you think jumping should be illegal you probably arent that good at it. I brake from the same 3 spots on the table all the time and I leave long draw marks on the table. People always argue with me about it. Point being it makes me play better and makes me secure, so your disagre meant with leaving marks on the table is realy waisted air. I have never damaged a cloth the only argument created is completly asthetic.
Just play pool Honkie!!!
This is mearly my opinion and as such should be imediatly disregarded for one of your own that is obviusly more knowledgable.
I don't understand the need to drag tip during breaks. I have a decent break using triangle tips and am quite satisfied with it. I think its just another way of trying to compensate for breaking technique. Want a better break? Practice.
This whole time while reading this thread, I thought of the movie "Idiocracy." There is a TV show in the movie called, "Ow, my balls!" Hahaha...
My red dot cueball doesn't have any cracks or chips after all these years even though I abuse the hell out of it. I would say no to G10 tips. If a friend brought his G10 tipped break cue to my house and wanted to break with it, I would tell him to use his own set of billiard balls.
This whole time while reading this thread, I thought of the movie "Idiocracy." There is a TV show in the movie called, "Ow, my balls!" Hahaha...
My red dot cueball doesn't have any cracks or chips after all these years even though I abuse the hell out of it. I would say no to G10 tips. If a friend brought his G10 tipped break cue to my house and wanted to break with it, I would tell him to use his own set of billiard balls.
Last edited:
I am not against technology or jumping. I agree that cue balls if could be harder, should be, but there is also a cost to the manufacturer and the final retail price to the room owners.
I am just against equipment that in normal play can do unintentional damage.
I can jump without using a G-10 tip, and no doubt you can as well.
With all this aside, I am yet to see a cueball in our area that is damaged from these really hard break tips as being the primary cause for the ball damage.
The break has the highest velocity hit on a cueball far more so than when a jump shot is exicuted.There is only a few people in our area that have a break cue with a G-10 tip, with 4 that I know of only being purchased this year.
The cueballs on all the tables in our area have dings and chips, mainly from coming off the table and more than 7 years in service. The damage rate to the cue ball does not seem to be at a worse rate now than 1 year ago. Also the people who have the G-10 tip break cues do not try to hit the rack at the highest possible speed.
You can tap an egg with a hammer and still not break it.
Neil
shooter50014
Registered
I dont see how people think its gona ruin a whole set of balls. Cue ball only gets hit. Ya the G-10 puts tiny dings in the cue ball but so does bouncing them off concrete. I am guessing the owners of pool tables spend more to replace stolden or lost pool ball than ones that are broken by a G10 tip. I have only ever seen one cueball broken from a break and the guy had a leather tip and hit 31 MPH at a state tourney speed break
Apparently White Diamond tips damage cue balls as well.....
Proof of either would be great, so far it seems to be just speculation. It's been said that the measoe ball is softer than standard but have any tests been done? We can go back and forth about all of this but when is someone going to come up with empirical proof before ruining product sales?
I'm going with "measoe" as the word of the day.
Phrase of the day... "Excellent poof reader"
hardness
The first flaw in all of this debate is that something does not have to be of greater hardness to damage something else. All the balls on the table are damaged by impact with each other. That is why on an older set of balls the cue ball is smallest, the one ball next smallest, and the nine the next smallest after that if a lot of nine ball is played on the table.
Even softer material can damage harder material. The softer material is damaged faster but if the materials are in the same general range both materials are damaged. Cutting plastic with vastly harder carbide I still have to replace the carbide pretty regularly as one example.
G-10 does get damaged itself and that is an issue. Glass reinforced phenolic gets glass fiber in the cloth and imbedded into the balls when slivers come off. Also phenolic tips and G-10 are only an advantage as long as only a few have them. G-11 is substantially stronger and I believe harder than G-10. Perhaps I will start cutting G-11 tips for my sticks. It will be another advantage but again only until they become common. That is the real issue with all equipment races, better equipment is only an advantage as long as your competition doesn't have it too. That leads to an ever spiraling equipment race that is only good for the people selling equipment.
Leather tips save equipment so I won't go as far as banning leather tips but I can take or leave layered tips and see no reason for anything harder than that. Tips are to improve the hit on the cue ball but they are also to protect cloth and cushions and slate too for that matter. We should keep that in mind.
Hu
The first flaw in all of this debate is that something does not have to be of greater hardness to damage something else. All the balls on the table are damaged by impact with each other. That is why on an older set of balls the cue ball is smallest, the one ball next smallest, and the nine the next smallest after that if a lot of nine ball is played on the table.
Even softer material can damage harder material. The softer material is damaged faster but if the materials are in the same general range both materials are damaged. Cutting plastic with vastly harder carbide I still have to replace the carbide pretty regularly as one example.
G-10 does get damaged itself and that is an issue. Glass reinforced phenolic gets glass fiber in the cloth and imbedded into the balls when slivers come off. Also phenolic tips and G-10 are only an advantage as long as only a few have them. G-11 is substantially stronger and I believe harder than G-10. Perhaps I will start cutting G-11 tips for my sticks. It will be another advantage but again only until they become common. That is the real issue with all equipment races, better equipment is only an advantage as long as your competition doesn't have it too. That leads to an ever spiraling equipment race that is only good for the people selling equipment.
Leather tips save equipment so I won't go as far as banning leather tips but I can take or leave layered tips and see no reason for anything harder than that. Tips are to improve the hit on the cue ball but they are also to protect cloth and cushions and slate too for that matter. We should keep that in mind.
Hu
If the op is true it sounds like the problem would be taken care of with regular cleaning and maintenance of the balls...i break with a panther jb and the g10 performs beautifully. I would recommend the cue to anyone looking for an economical j/b priced at around 150
Nope, because in reality if they really perform better than other (hard) leather or what ever tip you like to use, then why not just switch. No ones holing you back and its readily available so why complain.
This is juts my opinion of course, but also IMHO people complain to much about pool instead of just playing there game, people always look for excuses.
This is juts my opinion of course, but also IMHO people complain to much about pool instead of just playing there game, people always look for excuses.
It's easy to understand how hard tips damage balls but seriously fiber glass sticks to the ball and damages other balls? Can anyone here post images of balls with fiber glass stick to them?
Leaving marks on the cloth? That's all about your stroke, not because of the tips. I can damage cloth easily even with leather tips. Stroke all the way to the cloth, so easy.
Leaving marks on the cloth? That's all about your stroke, not because of the tips. I can damage cloth easily even with leather tips. Stroke all the way to the cloth, so easy.
add some facts into the discussion...
what is listed below is based on published tests of various tip hardness rating using a Durometer (100 being the hardest)
Hardness tip type
93 G10
96 White Diamond
96 Samsara Jump / Break
97 Phenolic
there are various reports you can google, and of course, expect some degree of conflicting information
what is listed below is based on published tests of various tip hardness rating using a Durometer (100 being the hardest)
Hardness tip type
93 G10
96 White Diamond
96 Samsara Jump / Break
97 Phenolic
there are various reports you can google, and of course, expect some degree of conflicting information