Gambling as a measure of skill?
- Thread starter crawdaddio
- Start date
Why? Because 90% of people will bring out all their emotions and compassion for their own money on the line. When you play in a tournament; if it's a big tournament. You will more than likely get paid at least your entry fee if you place top 10. Now on the other hand. If you place second at the table in gambling. You walk away with no money. And half of the prize money is yours, not just a small fraction. For most people it is more pressure, and it will help your game.
My view on why people play bad for a bill would be the fact that they are most likely pesamistic (sp ya i know). They don't believe they can win against these upper tier gamblers and they've lost before the first break shot. It's all in the mind. If you have any doubt in your mind about losing, don't put your money on the green until you're mentally prepared...
My view on why people play bad for a bill would be the fact that they are most likely pesamistic (sp ya i know). They don't believe they can win against these upper tier gamblers and they've lost before the first break shot. It's all in the mind. If you have any doubt in your mind about losing, don't put your money on the green until you're mentally prepared...
Playing your best game when under pressure and gambling, is a skill in itself. But it has nothing to do with your pool stroke, and everything to do with those little conversations you have running around in between your ears.
I used to stink at playing for money, but I considered it a challenge to overcome. But it was a separate challenge from learning how to play the game better. I used to get so nervous, I almost threw-up in a pocket once. Nice! But I got over it. Now for some reason, only my best game comes out when I'm behind, and playing for something. Oh well.
Thorsten: Flash in the pan? Maybe. Maybe not. Lotsa heart.
Ortman: Solid player, but I don't think he's a pool savant.
Souquet: As good as they come. Someone to study and learn from.
cheers,
jer9ball
p.s. great thread.
I used to stink at playing for money, but I considered it a challenge to overcome. But it was a separate challenge from learning how to play the game better. I used to get so nervous, I almost threw-up in a pocket once. Nice! But I got over it. Now for some reason, only my best game comes out when I'm behind, and playing for something. Oh well.
Thorsten: Flash in the pan? Maybe. Maybe not. Lotsa heart.
Ortman: Solid player, but I don't think he's a pool savant.
Souquet: As good as they come. Someone to study and learn from.
cheers,
jer9ball
p.s. great thread.
jer9ball said:
Jer9ball,
I can surely tell you Hohmann is no flash in the pan( I just love those American expressions). He just entered the international tour scene. He's playing close to where I am from and I watched him quite some time when he was giving out whippings. Ask Ralf Soquet, he gave him a white wash I think you call it.
cheers,
Markus
I love the game of pool, and my goal isn't to break a fellow player out of his cash; it's to shoot pool at the highest level I can shoot at. That's what gives me satisfaction on the pool table.
-Roger[/QUOTE]
Good post, I agree
-Roger[/QUOTE]
Good post, I agree
jer9ball said:Markus: I'm Canadian, eh!
Think Hohmann can win another world championship? What has he done, other than win one big event? I'm not saying he's not a good player. But he definitely hasn't proven himself.
cheers,
jer9ball
Agreed, Jer9ball. Hohmann's win in Cardiff was an incredible accomplishment, especially because he beat Francisco, Earl and Alex in order to capture the title, but he has yet to back it up in major competitive nineball. He won a significant straight pool title and beat incredible striaght pooler Tony Robles in the finals, but if you consider nineball only, he hasn't won anything of note since Cardiff and lost his only two singles matches at the Mosconi Cup. Perhaps he'll prove to be a great one, but the jury is still out, and while it's tough to deny that he's very talented, so are many other young players, and he'll have to do more to establish that he deserves to be considered one of the very best. To me, it's most unlikely he'll win another world championship.
BazookaJoe said:
But the really Great Great players will always put up somebody else's money. Seriously. Great players like Efren, Archer, Mika, etc dont have to put up one red cent of their own money. Their are lines of guys with cash standing outside of their doors who would love to say "Yeah I am backing Efren, etc.". So the gambling with your OWN money doesnt quite work here. I think it is the will to win with these guys. Their pride. Its no longer ONLY the money when it gets to this level. Buddy Hall is the greatest example of this. Tournament or Gamble he HATES to lose.
Jer9ball & SJm
First things first: Sorry Jer9Ball, of course beeing a Canadian is something diffrent ;-)
I agree to both of you that Hohmann has yet to proof he is no one hit wonder. He is very talented and has the hart of a true champion so to me it is only a matter of time and sponsorship till he can proof this again. If he is going to win another World Championship? Who knows, but he sure will be a fierce contender for any title on stake.
It took Oliver and Ralf quite some time too, before the won something big in the US. Oliver once won the US Open in straight pool but never won one of the prestigous tournaments to my knowledge. Ralf was spending some time over in the US before he pulled something off as well.
Regards,
Markus
First things first: Sorry Jer9Ball, of course beeing a Canadian is something diffrent ;-)
I agree to both of you that Hohmann has yet to proof he is no one hit wonder. He is very talented and has the hart of a true champion so to me it is only a matter of time and sponsorship till he can proof this again. If he is going to win another World Championship? Who knows, but he sure will be a fierce contender for any title on stake.
It took Oliver and Ralf quite some time too, before the won something big in the US. Oliver once won the US Open in straight pool but never won one of the prestigous tournaments to my knowledge. Ralf was spending some time over in the US before he pulled something off as well.
Regards,
Markus
BazookaJoe said:
Supposedly Mika Immonen does not gamble, there are not alot of players in the world who would want a piece of him though.
As far as Thorsten, He is a good player, but he got lucky to win the worlds. I watched the finals and Alex chopped it up pretty bad. Nothing Hohmann did really impressed me, alot of open tables with few problems. He made a couple great shots and he also made afew lousy ones. Alex blew it, he has way more game then Thorsten but he played alot of bad shots early and you could see he was way to pressured up in the match after that.
Yobagua: Good point about the gambling money. I hate playing someone when it isn't their own money they're putting up.
Predator: I think you missed the point about being lucky. Obviously, luck alone doesn't win a WPC. But you have to be incredibly skilled AND lucky to win it all. Alex's win over Rodney is a perfect example. Luck plays a huge factor in any 9-ball tournament where almost every player there could beat any other player on a given day. Given the right rolls, any of those top players could take the championship. I think that's why it is so unlikely for any one player to consistently win the WPC or any major tournament. The fact that some do, is incredible.
Predator: I think you missed the point about being lucky. Obviously, luck alone doesn't win a WPC. But you have to be incredibly skilled AND lucky to win it all. Alex's win over Rodney is a perfect example. Luck plays a huge factor in any 9-ball tournament where almost every player there could beat any other player on a given day. Given the right rolls, any of those top players could take the championship. I think that's why it is so unlikely for any one player to consistently win the WPC or any major tournament. The fact that some do, is incredible.
Raistlin said:
Have you seen the Alex vs. Rodney match ? Rodney had a really tough escape on the one-ball and he had a "brain fart" and made a silly foul. IMHO, the situation was on Alex's favour before the foul and he had Rodney in ropes already and Rodney had only a slim chance to hit the one _and_ leaving Alex safe. To me, the foul only sealed the fall of Rodney, not causing it.
To the original subject... I think it's hard to compare tournament play and gambling. In gambling every match counts and I personally find it hard to enjoy, except when I'm broke and I find a juicy rich turkey from whom I remove the burden of having excess cash on him
I think you can enjoy tournament play more, but some people feel that their status/reputation is more at stake there. But as already mentioned, the gambling scene is much more active and involves much more money in US compared to Europe. That's why there are hardly any "road players" here in Europe and I think that hardly any B or C-player would play for a large amount of jellybeans here. Most of the big money matches here happen on the occasional meetings of pros and semipros on Eurotour for example.a side note
Mika doesnt gamble??!!! Yeah thats why he came to LA crying about how he didnt play one pocket and couldnt play the game. Then proceeded to drill guys for the cash by making unfair one pocket games. He lost a lot of respect. This was after he beat Richie Richeson and Nick Varner in Louisville playing one hole. I guess you couldnt call that gambling. More like robbery.
Mika doesnt gamble??!!! Yeah thats why he came to LA crying about how he didnt play one pocket and couldnt play the game. Then proceeded to drill guys for the cash by making unfair one pocket games. He lost a lot of respect. This was after he beat Richie Richeson and Nick Varner in Louisville playing one hole. I guess you couldnt call that gambling. More like robbery.
yobagua said:
OK, Yobagua, so Mika does gamble. I've seen him gamble, too. But the fact that he managed to make good one pocket games (as he did in LA) for himself would, in most pool gambling circles, win him respect, not cost him respect. By the way, Varner drills Mika for the cash in one pocket in any long match.
Oh I do agree with you SMJ. I take Varner over Mika in one hole in the long run. But I personally disagree with you about respecting someone who lies about their game. Sure its an accepted tactic but I dont have to respect them. Mika acted like he didnt know jack about one pocket. Those of us who saw him play in Louisville knew better.
I like the Efren/Jose school of playing. You want to play OK lets play.
I like the Efren/Jose school of playing. You want to play OK lets play.
ChalksBilliards
Registered
The best players in the world are judged by the tournaments they win and how much prize money they win. Pretty simple way to determine who is the best in my opinion.