Gambling can help your game

Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Gambling on pool is different than gambling on poker, on craps, or a slot machine.
Sure there is some luck playing 9 ball, but it takes more skill than a roll of the dice.

To win at pool you will need 2 things going for you.... concentration and execution.
Both of these are harder to accomplish under pressure. Some gambling can help.

Gambling on a per ball basis rather than sets is what I prefer. Just small bets too.
For some .50 would be too much, for some $5 too much.. some $50 isn't enough.

Try to stay in your gambling comfort zone, betting just enough for some pressure.
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The only thing that is going to "help" your game is practice. If you need to gamble to help you care to try harder or focus better, then well, maybe you don't really like playing all that much to begin with. jmho

I think some people are just afraid that when playing a casual game their opponent is going to get offended if they try too hard, play safes, etc... You need to find someone you can play with that you can have serious races with regardless if there's money on the line. It's all about giving it all you got on every shot. The name of the opponent or how much money is sitting on the rail is irrelevant.
 
RussPrince said:
The only thing that is going to "help" your game is practice.
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I absolutely disagree with this part....What about bad fundamentals? Practicing bad fundys over and over is not a good thing.

Tournaments?
BCA/Valley League (assuming year end tournament/state tournaments)?

To get better IF you don't want to do straight gambling one or more of these will definitely help your game. They all have money involved which sort of makes it a gamble to play (risking money to win money)...but it is definitely not the same as straight up cash money gambling. Also seeking help from a professional teacher can possibly help your game...so just saying practice is the only thing that helps your game is flat out wrong.
 
RussPrince said:
The only thing that is going to "help" your game is practice. If you need to gamble to help you care to try harder or focus better, then well, maybe you don't really like playing all that much to begin with. jmho
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I have to agree with this, as long as your practice is reinforcing solid fundamentals..... While playing buddies for small stakes wagers on occasion can be fun (small cash amounts, beer, dinners, etc)...However, playing for any kind of stakes (penny-ante or high stakes) doesn't make me play any better. What makes me play better is going up against someone that I know plays better than me, and being able to settle in, stay focused, and be able to beat him. That brings me far more of a personal satisfaction than taking what's in his pockets....but on that note, I'm not nor have I ever been much of a gambler.
 
RussPrince said:
The only thing that is going to "help" your game is practice. If you need to gamble to help you care to try harder or focus better, then well, maybe you don't really like playing all that much to begin with. jmho

I think some people are just afraid that when playing a casual game their opponent is going to get offended if they try too hard, play safes, etc... You need to find someone you can play with that you can have serious races with regardless if there's money on the line. It's all about giving it all you got on every shot. The name of the opponent or how much money is sitting on the rail is irrelevant.
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I'd say my gambling game is better than my 'regular' game. In a more casual game, I'm more likely go for harder shots and try things that are lower percentage - it's like practice. I like playing plenty, so that dog don't hunt. To me, the name of the opponent and how much money is on the rail is completely relevant. I'm not playing an APA 3 like I would a BCA master. People still enjoy playing me, serious game or friendly.
 
As someone who has hit what feels like millions of balls in my 20 years of playing, I have to say honestly that practice bores me to tears. I have tried probably nearly every practice routine a normal person can think of, and now when I go to the pool room, if I don't have any competition, I find it extremely difficult to practice. Don't get me wrong, I still practice, but it's normally just shots that I have trouble with on occasion - banks, shooting cue ball close to the rail, long shots mostly - and then I practice certain games, one pocket, straight, and nine and ten ball. But if I get a game, my focus is laser-like and I can concentrate; otherwise, it's hard to focus.
 
RussPrince said:
The only thing that is going to "help" your game is practice. If you need to gamble to help you care to try harder or focus better, then well, maybe you don't really like playing all that much to begin with. jmho

I think some people are just afraid that when playing a casual game their opponent is going to get offended if they try too hard, play safes, etc... You need to find someone you can play with that you can have serious races with regardless if there's money on the line. It's all about giving it all you got on every shot. The name of the opponent or how much money is sitting on the rail is irrelevant.
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I disagree with this to an extent...If youre just a casual player that is never going to compete in anything then yes, practice makes perfect.....BUT....If you are going to try to play in a competitive field in a tourney or something then you have the added element of pressure. No amount of practice can get you seasoned to handle pressure. So I agree with the OP that gambling can help your game...

I play with a guy that practices is ass off on his home table and when there is nothing at stake he shoots lights out but when you get him in a tourney or even a $5 game he folds like origami. There is NO substitute for pressure so putting your self in pressure situations fairly often is the only way to get better where it counts...

Again some people dont care about winning a tournament or playing for a little cash...its not for everyone...
 
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Competition is essential to improving.

Gambling, tournament play, or just sparring with a good player can be very good for your game. If you are going to gamble just to get some pressure on your game, the OP gave some excellent tips on how to do it. Just be realistic about your skills and ability when playing for the dough. You gotta be smart and play within yourself and stay focused like a laser beam. After the match you need to quickly try and recall the missed shots, or bad decisions that caused you to lose. The most important part in winning and losing is to not lose the lesson. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
 
Banks said:
I'd say my gambling game is better than my 'regular' game. In a more casual game, I'm more likely go for harder shots and try things that are lower percentage - it's like practice. I like playing plenty, so that dog don't hunt. To me, the name of the opponent and how much money is on the rail is completely relevant. I'm not playing an APA 3 like I would a BCA master. People still enjoy playing me, serious game or friendly.
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I agree with this. While I always try to give a stout challenge to my opponent, I play a slightly different game when there's money involved -- especially in 14.1 or one pocket. For funsies, I'll go for shots that I'd not normally play in a match that matters or if there's money on the line -- for the purposes of, "if you never try them, you'll never master them." However, when money's on the line, usually nothing is taken for granted. It depends, though. If while watching my opponent I noticed he's "vulnerable" to temptation by certain shots that he's weak at (i.e. the "moth attracted to the flame" scenario), I'll go for shots that result in that type of leave.

Regardless, play me, you get a good game. I don't hide behind the "well, there wasn't money on the match, so blasé faire..." excuse.

-Sean
 
Spimp13 said:
I absolutely disagree with this part....What about bad fundamentals? Practicing bad fundys over and over is not a good thing.
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You're stating an obvious fact about anything in life that's worth learning. It's about learning the "right things" and practicing them often. If that means coaching and playing with better players so be it. Also observation alone goes a long way in learning the difference between your own game and someone that plays better.

Also as for bad fundamentals, I guarantee you for any untaught "bad" habit you can think of, there is someone out there that shoots at a very high skill level that does it yet has made it work for them. It's all about how much dedication and practice you want to put in to make your game work for you.
 
RussPrince said:
You're stating an obvious fact about anything in life that's worth learning.
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This is AZ...nothing is obvious :D. Have a good weekend guys, shootem straight. I am going to beat the piss out of my buddy tonight at the pool hall without making him look too bad in front of his new gf lol.
 
IMO a player's "gambling" game should be no different than their "regular" game. For dedicated players it doesn't matter if they are playing for fun or for big money, they always play with the same attitude.

Also gambling is not the only way to get used to pressure. I think playing good in a tournament is tougher than gambling, because in gambling you can most of the time play next set and make a come back.
 
Practice, as anyone who's played for 40 or 50 years will tell you, will only take you so far. The thing is to challenge yourself and some of us do that by playing for money. Tournaments can do that also but in my experience playing for money highly outweighed playing in tournaments. I won't even go into the league thing, which has never significantly helped my game. George Fels's #27 from 101 Tips to Improve Your Game: "By all means. bet a few bucks. Morals aside, you'll learn to handle the game's unique pressures much faster and much better." A lot of us learned to play this way. Don't even start the bullshit about if you have to gamble, you don't love the game, etc, etc. If you don't play pool for money fine, but don't try to tell the rest of us why we shouldn't.
 
Gambling keeps me focused! I love the thrill of knowing if I play well, I will have a good chance! I agree with everyone here. At the end of the day, its where you want to be as a player! I love to practice, but I love to play for the $$$! I'm not much for tourneys, I could never win any of them! Maybe its because I'm a,,,, Nah, I just can't win those!:)
 
Practice makes you PLAY better, not COMPETE better.

All the practice in the world will not teach you how to compete under pressure. It just doesn't.

It can work when you're young and you are still fearless due to naivete rather than pure confidence, but once you get past that point of naive fearlessness, only practicing at competing gets you better at competing.

That's why there are people who are world beaters in tournaments that can't play for the cash and people that will take home the cash but can't win a tournament and people who can play lights out but can't win tourneys OR take home the cash.

It's like when a light's out ten baller plays one hole very little and they can't seem to make two balls that they would cinch playing ten ball 9 out of ten times. You play different in unfamiliar conditions.

So, in conclusion, don't practice by yourself expecting to win tourneys and take home the cash gambling...

Don't gamble for cash expecting to win tourneys or to improve your overall game...

and Don't play in Tourneys expecting to be able to gamble for cash or to improve your overall game...

Practice what you want to do. Practicing pool is good for finding flaws in your game and working on specific aspects of your game.. Playing in Tourneys is good for improving your mindset when competing in tourneys and gambling for cash is good at helping you to learn how to gamble for cash...

Jaden

p.s. The best thing is to do all of the above... That's what the best players always do...That way no matter what game you play or whether you're gambling or playing tourneys or practicing, it's always the same mindset...
 
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prad said:
IMO a player's "gambling" game should be no different than their "regular" game. For dedicated players it doesn't matter if they are playing for fun or for big money, they always play with the same attitude.

Also gambling is not the only way to get used to pressure. I think playing good in a tournament is tougher than gambling, because in gambling you can most of the time play next set and make a come back.
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If you can't play even a hair better when you need to, I think that's a problem. You don't need to when you're playing for fun and you've got little to no reason to focus so intensely on every shot.

I thought the same for a while on tournaments, but they're different beasts. In tournaments, you put in a fraction of the money, so you don't have much to lose and your return can vary from a little to a lot against your investment. In gambling, you may put in $100 to win $100. If you lose that set and keep gambling, now you've got to buckle down and risk losing $200 or breaking even. Then, if you haven't lost, you again risk $100 to try to get up $100. For every set you lose, you have to win that and one to be up. All the while, the opponent can pull up, catch a gear or anything. Tournaments, you'll put down a little and when you lose, you're done. Gambling, you can get stupid and throw your wallet at the guy that would've won that tournament.

They've both got their own ups and downs. Some people will excel at one and not at the other.

Tell ya what, though.. when I was hungover to hell, about to get double-dipped in the B regionals, I brought the most basic, intense focus to a simple 2 ball out on hill-hill that, when I can dig that deep nowadays, I rarely miss. It's like recognizing the feeling of need and desire. That's something that you can't really practice.
 
the two fears one must get over to compete is the fear of failure and of success

Pushout said:
Practice, as anyone who's played for 40 or 50 years will tell you, will only take you so far. The thing is to challenge yourself and some of us do that by playing for money. Tournaments can do that also but in my experience playing for money highly outweighed playing in tournaments. I won't even go into the league thing, which has never significantly helped my game. George Fels's #27 from 101 Tips to Improve Your Game: "By all means. bet a few bucks. Morals aside, you'll learn to handle the game's unique pressures much faster and much better." A lot of us learned to play this way. Don't even start the bullshit about if you have to gamble, you don't love the game, etc, etc. If you don't play pool for money fine, but don't try to tell the rest of us why we shouldn't.
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You make some very valid points. imo

There must be something to lose to create pressure, which is really a fear of the unknown (the two fears one must get over to compete successfully is the fear of failure and the fear of success). The top PGA golfers usually play for something to make it interesting......the legendary Sam Snead wouldn't play a round unless there was some kind of wager involved.

I've played a lot of "fun pool," and looking back it actually hurt my game, but it's still necessary, especially when owning a pool room. Gambling, even for small amounts, is beneficial to play the game as it was intended, not taking low percentage shots without a "safety valve".

Practice doesn't make perfect, systematic practice with the intention of mastering the game is what sparks consistent improvement. Mastery may be out of reach for many players, however, I believe it's still the best mind set to achieve productive advancement. 'The Game is Your Teacher'
 
Jaden said:
All the practice in the world will not teach you how to compete under pressure. It just doesn't.

It can work when you're young and you are still fearless due to naivete rather than pure confidence, but once you get past that point of naive fearlessness, only practicing at competing gets you better at competing.

That's why there are people who are world beaters in tournaments that can't play for the cash and people that will take home the cash but can't win a tournament and people who can play lights out but can't win tourneys OR take home the cash.

It's like when a light's out ten baller plays one hole very little and they can't seem to make two balls that they would cinch playing ten ball 9 out of ten times. You play different in unfamiliar conditions.

So, in conclusion, don't practice by yourself expecting to win tourneys and take home the cash gambling...

Don't gamble for cash expecting to win tourneys or to improve your overall game...

and Don't play in Tourneys expecting to be able to gamble for cash or to improve your overall game...

Practice what you want to do. Practicing pool is good for finding flaws in your game and working on specific aspects of your game.. Playing in Tourneys is good for improving your mindset when competing in tourneys and gambling for cash is good at helping you to learn how to gamble for cash...

Jaden

p.s. The best thing is to do all of the above... That's what the best players always do...That way no matter what game you play or whether you're gambling or playing tourneys or practicing, it's always the same mindset...
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IMo people play for various reasons and realize pressure for various reasons. It seems to be up to the individual.
I had a very good friend who had world class talent but for $50.00 cpu;d mpt beat MCGoo. His eyes would rollup in his sockets and miss 9 balls harder to miss than make.
Some could cre less about the game and only play for the money. There are far more of these than many want to admitt. That is the only measurement for many, how we play for the cash.
I agree that practice does not hellp anyone perform. Many cannot play like they practice.
 
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