Gambling DOES NOT help your game, ever!

Playing for money without a doubt makes you play MENTALLY tougher. The fact that over time you become more mentally tough than the other guy, is the part that makes you a better player.

I know a guy who plays on league with me, nicest person in the world loves the game of pool to death, has numerous cues all the gadgets, has even taken lessons, has his own home table but he still remains in the lower level of skill. He play's in the local tournament each month and constantly looses, to lower level, less experienced players, one can only wonder why.

Here's his problem, he doesn't want to loose mind you but he doesn't loose anything when he does. So therefore he really hasn't lost anything because to him it's just a game, so it really doesn't matter. Now if there were money on the line, I guarantee he would line up straighter, stay down longer, follow through better, be more mindful of speed, learn proper english, look 2-3 shot's ahead. All of these are things that he knows and has learned in practice, but when it counts it doesn't appear. Playing for the loot will bring that out.

This is the only thing everyone is trying to get across. No playing for money will not make you a good pool player. But, if your putting in time learning the game, practicing, drilling, reading, studing tapes etc. Playing for money will make everything come out.

No one is suggesting that you or anyone else go out and gamble for the sake of gambling if you don't have the weapons to wage a good fight. That would be crazy. I have a very good game but I know my limitations, I ran across a guy a week or two ago asked him if he wanted to play a few games, the reply he gave me right off the top was do you GAMBLE!!! Now thanks to OUR GOOD FRIEND MR. GRADY MATTHEWS, My first reply was NO!!! Let's just hit a few. Now I had been watching this guy just practice for about 30 minutes from across the room so I knew what HE COULD DO, WHEN I WALKED UP. I wanted to see how I'd compete against him, when I asked for weight he replied I don't know you or ever seen you play so why would I give you weight. That ended the negotiations there because I couldn't play him heads up and he would make a better game or just play for fun.

So the bottom line is for anyone is playing for a couple of dollars to put added pressure on the game so as to bring your game out it's fine and your WRONG.

And to anyone who wants to Gamble, pick up a copy of MONEY POOL before you venture out into the SHARK INFESTED WATERS. I'm sure Grady would appreciate it.

Black Cat :cool:
 
smashmouth said:
Gambling is addictive, plain and simple, the nature of it causes people to do very stupid things. Gambling addiction is a disease that many suffer from, to promote it is absurd.

Young people who gamble for the smallest amounts often don't have the maturity to understand the implications of betting. Young pool players need not worry about such things, rather concentrate on practicing, drilling, and local tourneys.
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I think your view is clouded by your personal feeling about gambling and not the facts of the matter.

You keep going on and on about "top pros" telling you gambling is not necessary, then list off pros, many of which built thier game on gambling. On this thread a former top pro and world champion (Grady) chimed in on the side of gambling. While I will not pretend to know a bunch of pros personaly, the ones I do know are all regular gamblers.

I think the boards opinion for gambling can be summed up with:

1) Gambling teaches a play how to deal with pressure. I hear it said pool is 90% mental. If we can agree on this, then learning to play under pressure is a must.

2) The pressure from gambling forces a player to focus at all times and make the best decision they are capable of. Focus and good decision making is a habit that must be practiced. You can't practice this in the vaccum of a practice table.

You may not *like* the truth about the benefits of gambling on games, but there is a benefit. Is gambling the only path? Of course not. Is it a real path to improving ones game? Of course it is. The only thing that you can really debate is is gambling the best path.


I once read line that went something line "you most vehemently defend the opinions that you doubt the most."
 
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smashmouth said:
I'm not looking to incite anything so I will close with this.

Judging one's own personal performance is a very difficult thing to do.
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Much easier then having someone you never met do it for you, like you tried to do for me a few posts back, jackass.

If you think you're helping your game and choose to ignore the possibility that you're not, ultimately that is your choice.
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I know I am helping my game, so I choose to continue to do it.

I have looked at this from both sides which is something that can not be said for many of you. Sometimes however there is such a thing as clear cut right/wrong, black/white, in my opinion, and the opinion of many champions I've spoken with (champions that are as accesible as the next major tourney), gambling will not benefit your game.
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Wrong, you did not look from both sides. You asked opinions on both sides. Most of which I am calling bullshit because they have been proven false. You speak of pros you listed off a few posts back, saying you spoke to them and they said gambling doesnt help. I can pick 4 names out of that list that I know for a FACT gamble or have gambled. I can add more to that list as well.

My god, I hope that was your last post in this thread, im starting to feel sorry for you due to the fact of how wrong you are. You are trying to sell sh!t to a lady with white gloves. And she isnt buying it.
 
The kid can't play, it doesn't mean he's wrong of course but its obvious he's just a fan and never really been in the situation. I can guess what the snooker players said and he's misinterpreted their words. Quite funny he list Jimmy W who's quite a big gambler to say the least!
 
Thornburn, Strickland, Archer, Duel, Steve Davis, Stephen Henry, Jimmy White, Varner to name but a few. The only person I recall saying otherwise was Rempe and I think he was trying to hustle me.
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Smashmouth, of your list, the top 4 most successful players Strickland, Archer, Varner and Rempe all grew up playing for cash..... serious cash. As to why Earl, Johnny and Little Nicky now would say that it is not helpful.... who knows. Maybe a little mellowing, maybe tired of the lifestyle, again who knows.
If you wish to believe gambling is of no benefit, fine you are entitled to your opinion. But you can not make a statement based on your opinion and a miniscule amount of "research" and expect anyone to look at it as anything but a theory. If you do not think gambling, especially "gambling on your nerve" helps forge a very strong mental game. You are simply wrong. The 4 players I have taken from your list have all done it at one time or another. Rempe may just be the only one straight forward enough to admit to it.
All said, you have your opinion as does everyone else. But dont try and make out like ou are right and everyone else is wrong...... Besides not being polite..... being argumentative takes away your credability.
Chuck
 
Snapshot9 said:
........
Their is an unspoken basic premise in Pool that has existed for decades,
take 2 evenly matched players, one a tournament winner, one a money player, and the money player will come away with the cash 9 out 10 times, assuming they are playing 5 figure Pool a set. ......
Click to expand...

Don't you think the opposite is true too? The strictly money player many times can be at a disadvantage in a tournament setting; either due to lack of motivation (not enough $$ riding on it), or the format (you lose and you can't make a new game to get back winners).
 
RiverCity said:
Smashmouth, of your list, the top 4 most successful players Strickland, Archer, Varner and Rempe all grew up playing for cash..... serious cash. As to why Earl, Johnny and Little Nicky now would say that it is not helpful.... who knows. Maybe a little mellowing, maybe tired of the lifestyle, again who knows...
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It could be that they gambled a lot to make money, but do not attribute their ability to play to gamblin. Afterall if they're the best, which they are, they're are not going to run into a lot of people who really test their metal. Of course, I've no idea if they ever actually said what Smashmouth said they said, but if they did that might explain the apparent discrepancy.
Just a thought from another point of view.
Personally, I think the improvement due to gambling can not be substantiated. Though it may be true, but no causative link between gambling and impovement has been shown in this thread. Conversely, no evidence has been shown to establish that it doesn't either. In other words, IMO, whether or not gambling helps is entirely the opinion of the speaker.
 
smashmouth said:
Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

In what other sports do you see amateurs playing for money in order to
improve their game? It doesn't happen. Ask any professional athlete
how much money they've gambled for while learning their sport, they won't
have a clue what you're referring to.

Learning is accomplished through practice drills, playing against
others at your level, more practice drills, even more practice drills, and
good coaching for those who can afford it.

Losing $500 to a top pro is not learning, it's stupid. There are LEGIONS of top pros out there who will provide you with instruction at rates far cheaper than what pros in other sports charge, many of them will be ecstatic to be getting paid for teaching, guaranteed cash for them with no pressure to bring home the cheese.

Pool players in general have for the most part rejected the idea of a coach being usefull to them, as a result, there is little demand for instruction from top pros. Occassionally, people will take some lessons from some no name "BCA certified" instructor who couldn't run 3 balls on a good day.

I once had Jim Rempe intruct me for $75 an hour CANADIAN!!!!! He seemed pleasantly surprised when I approched him after an exhibition and made an offer.

A few years back, Cliff frickin Thornburn was teaching 90 min sessions for
a hundred bucks! CLIFF THORNBURN people!

And they TAUGHT me things, I was their pupil for that time, not the enemy across the table trying to snatch their dough.

What other sport will World Champions offer instruction as such great rates? If you look at golf for example, I bet many here couldn't even afford a session with the COACHES of PGA pros, let alone the pros themselves.

Gambling with the notion that you will improve your game is plain dumb, if it was truly a usefull method of learning, it would be incorporated in many more walks of life.

Gamble for fun, gamble for profit, but don't fall into the trap of believeing you're actually learning something.
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Play some?

Post. We'll see how good your way got you.
 
My thoughts :

- Gambling is simply a tool to provide motivation.

- Our young hockey players, as an example, don't gamble for their motivation, rather they are driven to make a team at a given level (ie not get cut). This type of peer pressure is perhaps stronger in youngsters than their appreciation of money. It is also quite common in Little League Baseball I would assume.

- Gamblers have an easy out when a) there is no wager, or b) the wager is too low (this might be an escalating problem for gamblers ... do you need to constantly increase the wager to maintain pressure once you've reached a certain level ?).

- A lot of better players will not play lesser players without a wager, I feel mainly because they grew up loosing a bit through their developmental period and want the payback now that they are better. This is not a healthy development system, it propogates the gambling at pool culture.

- Gambling is a 'stick' motivation ... I prefer 'carrot' motivation myself. This means setting specific goals and working towards them. If you let yourself off the hook then you're a wimp. Of course is it difficult to motivate yourself sometimes, hence the crutch of gambling.

- Things are not automatically right just because it is common and accepted.

- Wealthy people might have more difficulty using the crutch of gambling as this form of pressure is not something they feel as accutely as us poor folks.

- A broad youth development system plus an organized system of competition will result in motivated young players, no gambling required.

Dave
 
I don't know whether you become better by gambling or by playing in tournaments....probably one works for some folks and one works for others. It might be a way to induce a player who is far better than you to give you some weight and make you concentrate a little more, but it has been my observation that it will most likely only make you more broke. I don't see the top money players explaining how/why they play a shot or pattern a certain when they are taking a lower level player's money.
 
The big guys might say you have to gamble to get better. I believe it is a con. What they are saying is that "you" have to gamble to get better.
They are already at the top of their game. They can't get any better.

They gamble for one thing, to win money. And when you gamble with them only one person is gambling, the sucker. Just like in 3 card monte or the shell game. The sucker only wins when the dealer wants him to.

Surely none of you would ever bet on 3 card monte or the pea under the shell now would you?

I think Catscradle explained it the best.

I know why Tom Kennedy quit gambling but why did Earl?

Jake
 
if you wanna kinda have fun with pool for the rest of your life, beat up on bangers, show all the girls how good you can play, sure, you dont really have to gamble.

if you want to really reach a more extraordinary level in pool, you will need to gamble, on your own money too. thats what i think
 
he is right.

smashmouth said:
Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

In what other sports do you see amateurs playing for money in order to
improve their game? It doesn't happen. Ask any professional athlete
how much money they've gambled for while learning their sport, they won't
have a clue what you're referring to.

Learning is accomplished through practice drills, playing against
others at your level, more practice drills, even more practice drills, and
good coaching for those who can afford it.

Losing $500 to a top pro is not learning, it's stupid. There are LEGIONS of top pros out there who will provide you with instruction at rates far cheaper than what pros in other sports charge, many of them will be ecstatic to be getting paid for teaching, guaranteed cash for them with no pressure to bring home the cheese.

Pool players in general have for the most part rejected the idea of a coach being usefull to them, as a result, there is little demand for instruction from top pros. Occassionally, people will take some lessons from some no name "BCA certified" instructor who couldn't run 3 balls on a good day.

I once had Jim Rempe intruct me for $75 an hour CANADIAN!!!!! He seemed pleasantly surprised when I approched him after an exhibition and made an offer.

A few years back, Cliff frickin Thornburn was teaching 90 min sessions for
a hundred bucks! CLIFF THORNBURN people!

And they TAUGHT me things, I was their pupil for that time, not the enemy across the table trying to snatch their dough.

What other sport will World Champions offer instruction as such great rates? If you look at golf for example, I bet many here couldn't even afford a session with the COACHES of PGA pros, let alone the pros themselves.

Gambling with the notion that you will improve your game is plain dumb, if it was truly a usefull method of learning, it would be incorporated in many more walks of life.

Gamble for fun, gamble for profit, but don't fall into the trap of believeing you're actually learning something.
Click to expand...
If your goin to gamble,your not learning anything accept to lose a lot of money.I can tell you that there are sharcks out there who will take it of of you and they dont care.I rather play pool fore fun,not gamble my money.Because there is always someone better then you,so think about it.I agree with smashmouth and i dont blame him.
 
you dont have to be a sucker to gamble, play small and make the right game so it helps the better player AND yourself. Its about "match practice" all the tope players do it in addition to their practice and they do it for a reason, its certainly not to rob each other! There are no suckers at that level.

If you have tournaments on tap then dont worry too much. There are different levels of gambling and everybody on here has their own opinion of what it means, try to differentiate between "match practice" and getting robbed.
 
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