Gambling is the problem

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SilentLurker

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What is the obsession with races to 100? It could be some of the reason pool is dying in the USA. I mean look at half the stories of your "great" hustlers, and it is full of sayings like "once his mixture was right he was unbeatable" (Ie a drug cheat, who chemically outlasted an opponent). Wow. Impressive. NOT.

Also gamblers play with other peoples money - "my backer is bigger than yours". Again what has that got to do with anything? If you're not gambling with 100% your own money it counts for nothing. But again what is a lot of money for one player could be pocket change for another. Still not a level playing field, so an advantage in your favour. If the average American salary is 20x that of a Pinoy (I made 20x up) then you should be betting 20x what they bet with them to make it fair. Equal amounts they have more pressure on from the outset.

American gambling folk law seems all messed up with stories of how players failed in tournaments and cleaned up gambling afterwards. I guess this goes some way to explain the obsession with gambling and overlooking tournament failure. To fix pool in the USA you need to stop this way of thinking. You idolise failure. This is what holds you back.

Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
 
SilentLurker said:
What is the obsession with races to 100? It could be some of the reason pool is dying in the USA. I mean look at half the stories of your "great" hustlers, and it is full of sayings like "once his mixture was right he was unbeatable" (Ie a drug cheat, who chemically outlasted an opponent). Wow. Impressive. NOT.

Also gamblers play with other peoples money - "my backer is bigger than yours". Again what has that got to do with anything? If you're not gambling with 100% your own money it counts for nothing. But again what is a lot of money for one player could be pocket change for another. Still not a level playing field, so an advantage in your favour. If the average American salary is 20x that of a Pinoy (I made 20x up) then you should be betting 20x what they bet with them to make it fair. Equal amounts they have more pressure on from the outset.

American gambling folk law seems all messed up with stories of how players failed in tournaments and cleaned up gambling afterwards. I guess this goes some way to explain the obsession with gambling and overlooking tournament failure. To fix pool in the USA you need to stop this way of thinking. You idolise failure. This is what holds you back.

Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
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So this year at a certain nationals I won triple the first place payout in the minis but was knocked out of the main tourney by some long haired cheating hippy.
 
Gamble

Sounds like your on a losing streak. Suck it up happens to all of us from time to time.
 
I can't imagine ever having the motivation to gamble in a race to 100. How long does a race to 100 generally last? 3 or 4 days? Unless the stakes are 3x what I could earn with 3-4 days work its actually not worth it. And there aren't many people willing to put up that kind of money of their own on a single match. Race to 20, make it worth both parties while and get on with it.
 
SilentLurker said:
What is the obsession with races to 100? It could be some of the reason pool is dying in the USA. I mean look at half the stories of your "great" hustlers, and it is full of sayings like "once his mixture was right he was unbeatable" (Ie a drug cheat, who chemically outlasted an opponent). Wow. Impressive. NOT.

Also gamblers play with other peoples money - "my backer is bigger than yours". Again what has that got to do with anything? If you're not gambling with 100% your own money it counts for nothing. But again what is a lot of money for one player could be pocket change for another. Still not a level playing field, so an advantage in your favour. If the average American salary is 20x that of a Pinoy (I made 20x up) then you should be betting 20x what they bet with them to make it fair. Equal amounts they have more pressure on from the outset.

American gambling folk law seems all messed up with stories of how players failed in tournaments and cleaned up gambling afterwards. I guess this goes some way to explain the obsession with gambling and overlooking tournament failure. To fix pool in the USA you need to stop this way of thinking. You idolise failure. This is what holds you back.

Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
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-----------> Don't cry!!!
 
There is no crying. Most crying involves playing for money.

Gambling is all about "trapping" or otherwise disadvantaging your opponent it always has been.

Tournament play is a level playing field, where everyone fights for themselves for the same prize with the same pressure and the same rules. Tournament rules have evolved as they are to even out the game in the sake of fairness. Shane (who is a great player) hasn't yet won the World Championship. So what? He is one of hundreds of great players who haven't. It's not a personal insult.

But why do his fans as soon as he loses start trying to put money into the equation and change the rules, so that their man has the (perceived) advantage? What do they think it changes or proves? He still hasn't won.

Not once has someone said "Lets rerun the whole tournament for 30K a man, same rules". I think that says it all. They know there is no "trap" that way and he already lost once under those conditions.
 
SilentLurker said:
What is the obsession with races to 100? It could be some of the reason pool is dying in the USA. I mean look at half the stories of your "great" hustlers, and it is full of sayings like "once his mixture was right he was unbeatable" (Ie a drug cheat, who chemically outlasted an opponent). Wow. Impressive. NOT.

Also gamblers play with other peoples money - "my backer is bigger than yours". Again what has that got to do with anything? If you're not gambling with 100% your own money it counts for nothing. But again what is a lot of money for one player could be pocket change for another. Still not a level playing field, so an advantage in your favour. If the average American salary is 20x that of a Pinoy (I made 20x up) then you should be betting 20x what they bet with them to make it fair. Equal amounts they have more pressure on from the outset.

American gambling folk law seems all messed up with stories of how players failed in tournaments and cleaned up gambling afterwards. I guess this goes some way to explain the obsession with gambling and overlooking tournament failure. To fix pool in the USA you need to stop this way of thinking. You idolise failure. This is what holds you back.

Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
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Races to 100 show who the obvious better player is. There's a thing called variance -- ever heard of it?

Your analogy between a race to 100 and Usain Bolt sprinting is completely wrong, too. It literally makes zero sense whatsoever to say something like that.
 
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SilentLurker said:
[...]
Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
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This is where you are going wrong.

For your analogy to be accurate you would have to say that a lot people could race Usain Bolt in a 10 meter race and beat him, but would that prove that they are the faster runner? Some people would argue yes and others would say the race just wasn't long enough to really conclude anything other than one player comes out of the blocks faster than the other.

Racing to 11 with alternating break and using the magic rack is a joke for the pros. I feel bad for them actually. You could run that tournament 100 times with the same cast of characters and you would get a different result every time. If you like analogies - it would be like making professional golfers play 6 holes of match play against each other in each tournament. Luckily, for golfers they get to actually play out 2 entire rounds of golf each tournament before they even face getting eliminated.

Now certainly whoever wins a top level professional pool tournament has to play awesome pool and winning one of these things is an unbelievable accomplishment. It's just the individual races are so short that they are a crapshoot. Unfortunately, I don't see a plausible way around the short races. So maybe they are just a necessary evil in pool. But at least if you understand this -- you may understand why so many players would rather gamble than play tournaments. They are entirely different tests. One is a test of focus and determination, while the other is more of a test of an aptitude test.
 
Pool is all about gambling. Always has been and always will be
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I go to a tournament and hope to do well. Mostly I am ready to gamble it up fro the minute I walk in the door until they close. Having heart in this game and bankroll is what's lacking you are correct. I don't have those problems. If you matchup good and can figure out how much weight you can give up and still win, it's all money. I will play anybody if the spot is right. Most weekly tournament nights I am in action well above what the entire payout is.

The races to 100 are awesome, see nothing wrong with it. The fact that they play on backer money is also not a big deal and is nothing new either. Face it, your average pool player at top levels is underemployed. They have to play these challenge matches to earn their way. We are the lucky ones who get to watch.

Somebody name a pro speed player who gambles high on his own money? Really can only think of one right off Jose Parica who can afford to do so.
 
I wonder how much Shane made gambling while on this trip? I think if you asked Shane if he would rather gamble even for big money or play in big tournaments he would say gamble. 30K after taxes is no big deal to Shane. Johnnyt
 
Ya can't change human nature...but that doesn't stop people from trying.

I don't gamble. But I sure don't try to change human nature.

A now departed friend who grew up on the mean streets of Long Beach, NY said it well:
"Gambling is a business. If you're not in the business, don't do it,"
 
BasementDweller said:
This is where you are going wrong.

For your analogy to be accurate you would have to say that a lot people could race Usain Bolt in a 10 meter race and beat him, but would that prove that they are the faster runner? Some people would argue yes and others would say the race just wasn't long enough to really conclude anything other than one player comes out of the blocks faster than the other.

Racing to 11 with alternating break and using the magic rack is a joke for the pros. I feel bad for them actually. You could run that tournament 100 times with the same cast of characters and you would get a different result every time. If you like analogies - it would be like making professional golfers play 6 holes of match play against each other in each tournament. Luckily, for golfers they get to actually play out 2 entire rounds of golf each tournament before they even face getting eliminated.

Now certainly whoever wins a top level professional pool tournament has to play awesome pool and winning one of these things is an unbelievable accomplishment. It's just the individual races are so short that they are a crapshoot. Unfortunately, I don't see a plausible way around the short races. So maybe they are just a necessary evil in pool. But at least if you understand this -- you may understand why so many players would rather gamble than play tournaments. They are entirely different tests. One is a test of focus and determination, while the other is more of a test of an aptitude test.
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Do they have a same winner in golf every tournaments ?
 
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Johnnyt said:
I wonder how much Shane made gambling while on this trip? I think if you asked Shane if he would rather gamble even for big money or play in big tournaments he would say gamble. 30K after taxes is no big deal to Shane. Johnnyt
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Do they allow gambling in Qatar ?
 
First off, probably 99% of gambling on pool
is done with the players own money. So the
point concerning backers is relevant to maybe
1% of the pool gambling that occurs.

Second point, we can play for a dollar on a race
to seven. I doubt that that gives either player
a significant financial stress advantage. We could
play for for $10,000.00 on a race to seven. That
might or might not create a financial stress
advantage for a particular player.

The point is that just because money is involved
does not necessarily create the disadvantage
that the op claims.

When I was young guys used to "high roll" me. So I learned
to hate it. Today I am very careful to never high roll anybody,
and nobody high rolls me.

Joe
 
Many players fuel their pool gambling habit with drug money. A large % of them dress like a home-boy from the ghetto too, covered with tattoos on their arms, legs and neck and then they wonder why pool doesn't have a wholesome image. Without a dress code, they'd show up for tournaments in their basketball carnival outfit.
Gambling players make the news when they're in jail for cleaning out a change machine at the car wash, among other things.
I saw a guy dump 1st place in a tournament once. It paid $1,000. but he had $2500 bet on his opponent, through a discreet traveling partner.

I know, back to the race to 100......I like Dennis Hatch in that game. It's all about eliminating the luck factor.
 
SilentLurker said:
What is the obsession with races to 100? It could be some of the reason pool is dying in the USA. I mean look at half the stories of your "great" hustlers, and it is full of sayings like "once his mixture was right he was unbeatable" (Ie a drug cheat, who chemically outlasted an opponent). Wow. Impressive. NOT.

Also gamblers play with other peoples money - "my backer is bigger than yours". Again what has that got to do with anything? If you're not gambling with 100% your own money it counts for nothing. But again what is a lot of money for one player could be pocket change for another. Still not a level playing field, so an advantage in your favour. If the average American salary is 20x that of a Pinoy (I made 20x up) then you should be betting 20x what they bet with them to make it fair. Equal amounts they have more pressure on from the outset.

American gambling folk law seems all messed up with stories of how players failed in tournaments and cleaned up gambling afterwards. I guess this goes some way to explain the obsession with gambling and overlooking tournament failure. To fix pool in the USA you need to stop this way of thinking. You idolise failure. This is what holds you back.

Races to 100 prove nothing. I bet a lot of people in the world could race Usain Bolt over a marathon distance and win. What does that prove? Oh you managed to trap him into something for your advantage and won. So what? He's still the fastest man who ever lived and you're still a nobody. End of.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mv3oqpCpCN1rcl1vuo1_250.jpg
 
If you have tournaments, you have a purse structure.
Add up prize money won and you can rank players.
Cuts out all the woofing and unverifiable stories.
Would reduce AZB to a ghost of itself. :D

So you can understand why it would not meet with the approval of most posters.
 
If you don't want to bet then don't. Quit *****ing about the people who do and work on your own game. Don't like a race to 100, try 10 ahead instead, sometimes takes days.


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