Gambling...not sure I like it, even when I win.

I don't gamble much, at all. Not a big fan. However, people occasionally talk me into it. Last week I lost $40, which sucked. Tonight I won $60, which was nice, but I don't really care to do it again.

I think what bothers me is some people just can't enjoy the game unless money is on the line. I've had people stop and walk away in the middle of racking because I said "I don't play for money". That's the closest I've come to violence at the pool table...f**king rude as sh*t!

I love the game itself and cannot comprehend only doing it for money. It IS nice to win some and my hatred of losing money does make me try harder and (hopefully) play better, but I still have a great time just playing for fun. Keep in mind, pool is ultimately a stress relief for me.

If you are a money-only player, please help me understand your mindset. Thanks.

ps - When I do take the challenge for money it's only ever with people I know personally and whom I feel are decent people. Never strangers. The 2 folks I've played recently are good people and I've no bad feelings about them, but their disinterest in the game without money just got me thinking and pondering.

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I play only for the love of the game. My gambling days are mostly over and I was never that into it to begin with. For a while it was the only way I could get the really good players to play against me, so I felt it was worth it. Naturally, when I did manage to win, it was always a PITA to collect from these players, and I had some other negative experiences as well. To me it's just not worth it.

Some of the really, really good players I think are sick of the game. They don't practice, and will only play for money. To them the game is a means to an end, and not anything special in itself. I remember listening to Sigel comment on a pool match and mention that he'd rather be fishing.
 
When I tell people I don't gamble...

I've had many people say why don't you gamble, you could make a lot of money.

I don't know. I'll occasionally gamble and I'll gamble for stake horses and if they want to throw me something if we win, I'm fine with it.

I get enjoyment out of playing the game, if I want to make money, I'll go play cards...

Like you, I don't get why people need to have money on it to play the game. You either love the game or you don't. I can understand not wanting to play a stranger without putting something on it, but even then if you know it'll be a good game, why not?

I was having a conversation with a buddy of mine. I said, I make 70K a year, I'm guaranteed to get that. Why would I gamble at pool where I wouldn't be guaranteed to make any thing and could lose a lot?

He said, I can make that playing pool easy...

What's he doing now? He's a carpenter and hasn't picked up a cue in a long time. It's funny how having a family and needing to support people changes your perspective.

Could I afford to gamble and make some extra money? Sure...but my enjoyment comes from just playing the game.

Jaden
 
I think you can love to PLAY POOL without gambling but if you love to COMPETE it's much more difficult to avoid it. The caveat to this is if you live an area with an active tournament scene then you can satisfy your craving for competition by paying your entry fee and giving it your best shot.

But then again, upon closer inspection there's really not much difference between forking over your money to play in a tournament versus a field of players and doing the same thing versus a single opponent. I think most players conclude this sooner or later.

The thing is -- once you have experienced the euphoria that's associated with finding a way to cross the finish line while shaking like a leaf, you will want to experience it again.

Don't get me wrong, I still play a few guys for fun but I must admit -- it's just not the same for me anymore. I view playing for fun as just another form of practice. Ultimately, I have the desire to be playing inside the competitive arena and you don't get that just playing for funsies. At the same time, I'm really just a cheap sets kind of guy but I find these cheap sets work as appetizers that hold me over until I can play again in a tournament setting.
 
you do not want to know why gambling is prevelent in the pool world. you want others to validate your opinion of gamblers in the pool world and your judgemmental/ superiority assement of those who do gamble.

nothing can be written or spoken to change your mind or outlook and that's fine, but you can take your air of superiority and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, unless you want to race to 3 for $20. seriously there is enough room in the pool world for you to choose not to gamble and for me to make a wager when i want. peace.

I don't feel like I've taken an air of superiority here. I did mention that I feel SOME in the gambling community are too consumed by it. I'm a decent player (sometimes...consistency seems to NOT be my thing) and feel I can present an interesting challenge to some. However, when you stop in the middle of racking and walk away without another word because I don't play for money, I think I'm justified in feeling indignant, in mentioning it makes me angry and am within my rights to ask for a glimpse of the mindset of those who are like that. Also, the fellow I played last night wanted to gamble so badly that he spotted me 2 games in a race to 5 after I turned down his initial requests. That reeked a little of desperation to me, which is not a quality that makes me comfortable with people.

I have mentioned that I do occasionally gamble and you'll almost always hear me say good things about those I gamble with, win or lose. Even the fellow last night was a nice guy and a decent player, but his eagerness/insistence on a money game just felt odd to me.
 
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A big thanks to those who were able to reply without being butt-hurt.

Some valid points were made, such as sometimes you have to gamble to play the better players. We all know playing someone better is one of the best ways to improve. While I hate losing money, the guy I lost $40 to last week was a superb player and I do feel I learned some things playing against him. Also, as mentioned, money on the line is a good way to get serious about your game and improve it.

Also, to hear why some just can't be bothered to play pool at all without money at risk is interesting too. Some valid opinions were expressed there, as well.

I do want to get better at the game but, again, pool is a stress reliever for me. Playing pool can often take me away from my issues and problems for a while. Money games do make you focus and (hopefully) improve but, as others have mentioned, there is also stress and concern over it, which often negates why I play in the first place.

Thanks again for your helpful replies!
 
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I started gambling at pool very young. I've always liked it & I never gambled at anything else but pool.

Look at it this way, lots of people love to go to Vegas & gamble. Some hardcore, some recreational as they'll establish a "fund" for gambling as entertainment as a part of their vacation. Now that's foolish, at least with pool you're betting on yourself and your own abilities, not random dumb luck. I can enjoy the game for itself, but I would always prefer to gamble.
 
"Pool rooms"

Yes, recreational golfers drink and gamble, but professional players certainly do not booze when playing a tournament, because booze impairs athletic performance (it's a lousy drug that makes people stupider than they were before they took it . . . and I have not met too many people (myself included) who can afford to be any stupider than they already are).

We lament the fact that is is so hard for even great players to make a decent living playing pool--they pretty much all have to gamble to supplement their earnings from tournaments and sponsorships. But I submit they have to gamble to supplement their earnings because they gamble to supplement their earnings. That is to say, it is the association with gambling (and drinking) that prevents pool from achieving the kind of status that major sports have. By all rights, Shane VB ought to have the kind of income from playing that Tiger Woods or other top golf pros have. The reason he doesn't is because his sport is mired in booze and gambling.
 
I gambled a lot more when I was a kid but it became less attractive as I got older. I still enjoy a sweat bet but that's about it.

I think what happened is the utility of winning versus losing became very unequal. Say I go to Vegas and win $5,000. It would be nice but no big deal really. I mean it's not life changing money. The joy I'd feel wouldn't even come close to the bad mood I'd be in if I lost half even that amount. When I was young it didn't bother me if I lost, just figuring I'd make it up the next time. There is also little consequence of betting big versus small for me now, no bigger rush or anything. Plus what was considered big when I was young and didn't have money per se is nothing to what I'd consider betting big now. Somewhere along the way I decided what's the point?

Also, when I was young I gambled at pool not to make it more fun or exciting It was how I made money. Obviously I found better ways of earning a living. ;)

So for me it is now just entertainment. I stay well within my comfort zone.
 
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Yes, recreational golfers drink and gamble, but professional players certainly do not booze when playing a tournament, because booze impairs athletic performance (it's a lousy drug that makes people stupider than they were before they took it . . . and I have not met too many people (myself included) who can afford to be any stupider than they already are).

We lament the fact that is is so hard for even great players to make a decent living playing pool--they pretty much all have to gamble to supplement their earnings from tournaments and sponsorships. But I submit they have to gamble to supplement their earnings because they gamble to supplement their earnings. That is to say, it is the association with gambling (and drinking) that prevents pool from achieving the kind of status that major sports have. By all rights, Shane VB ought to have the kind of income from playing that Tiger Woods or other top golf pros have. The reason he doesn't is because his sport is mired in booze and gambling.

Pool can't buy a functional organization. Money gets chopped by so many businesses that what's left isn't even worth messing with.

Big sports orgs have drug testing and other things in place. I'd say mostly as liability coverage for the money that they spend on players.

Has nothing to do with bars and betting.
 
Interesting discussion here. I've enjoyed all the posts. A funny aside...

Cindy & I playing each other in 8 ball, old style bar rules..slop counts, scratch & the cue ball goes in the kitchen...not keeping score, just shooting, having fun.

Another regular in the hall was leaving the hall, I assume having lost at the golf game on the snooker table. He looked at us, and said semi jokingly; "What's WRONG with you people? Just hanging here at the back table, playing, joking, and having fun...don't you know that pool is SERIOUS?"

We all had a good laugh...

Really though...if pool ever stopped being fun, I'd sure find something else to do.
Gambling would remove the fun of pool for me.

I just never had much fun gambling...but to each his own.
 
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One last thought I had is that I am genuinely confused when players say that they can't play their best without betting. Is this similar to a neurosurgeon asking the patient that he is about to perform brain surgery on that, if he is to perform his best surgery, he had better lay a few bucks on the outcome?

Follow up question, would certain patients have to spot a couple of synapse in order to make the game right? :wink:
 
One last thought I had is that I am genuinely confused when players say that they can't play their best without betting. Is this similar to a neurosurgeon asking the patient that he is about to perform brain surgery on that, if he is to perform his best surgery, he had better lay a few bucks on the outcome?

Follow up question, would certain patients have to spot a couple of synapse in order to make the game right? :wink:

Motivation, that is your answer.
 
One last thought I had is that I am genuinely confused when players say that they can't play their best without betting. Is this similar to a neurosurgeon asking the patient that he is about to perform brain surgery on that, if he is to perform his best surgery, he had better lay a few bucks on the outcome?

Follow up question, would certain patients have to spot a couple of synapse in order to make the game right? :wink:


Perhaps these people are adrenaline junkies and they like the high from gambling. Some like booze and some like other things and some like gambling. These same gamblers that need to gamble to play their best probably also play cards and like the horses too. Maybe the neurosurgeon gets an adrenaline rush from the challenge of an intricate operation. Just sayin.
 
huh?

$40 down?... $60 up?... $20 sets I assume?

that is not gambling.... league players can pay that much in league fees and bar tabs every week.... and that's even when they win. Tourney guys spend more in travel, lodging, food and entry fees than anyone in pool. Buy a home table and some nice cues. Go to the DCC, SBE, or Mosconi Cup as a fan or player... the bottom line is that there are lots of ways to spend your money in pool

you are mistaking small dollar games that use small amounts of money for motivation in order to get a "real" game out of someone.... for actual gambling gambling

the guy may have been rude in your opinion, but he wasn't interested in practicing with you... and he made his point quite clearly... and you didn't like it

my guess is that he did exactly what he wanted to do... and here you are this morning telling the world about it. I like his play.

and that is all part of the game, or gamesmanship, that does not exist in the happy happy practice pool world. All good players enjoy the basic "Pleasures of Small Motions" that the game presents, but it can also have an emotional aspect that is enhanced with the stress and risk of even a small amount of money on the line. Bragging rights just don't cut it after awhile.

Not saying the practice world isn't a necessary part of pool, but when you get to a certain skill level, you will either have to be satisfied with that end result or take the results of all that practice and see where you stand.... pick someone of equal skill, pick an overrated big mouth, or a quiet better player... whatever turns you on, save some $$ (small) and take a dive into the more primal part of your self. It's a good thing... if for nothing else, than to see what you are REALLY made of... not just your pool game (which you will find out also)... but you, as a competitor

I personally love the edginess of that aspect of pool... watching those interpersonal dynamics play out is almost as much fun for railbirds as actually playing in the match or seeing what pattern he/she comes up with

as long as someone is not betting more than they have to lose, I think it's a good thing

you should not be insulted though... if you think they are too good and would be stealing, say so and get a spot, or just say no, I'm scared

by the way, does this guy "know" you?
 
Gambling is a zero sum game. For ever dollar someone wins, someone has to lose a dollar.

Playing for fun, is a positive sum game. Both players gets some enjoyment out of the game, even if not in equal amounts.

Positive sum games increase the happiness in the world making it a better place.

Thank you kindly.

Are you joking? I can't tell....

Gawd we've become a bunch of pussies. Can't hit in football. Guys get a misdemeanor charge for not lowering the toilet seat. Now you can't gamble on pool cause some banger might get his feelings hurt???

I've made a lot gambling and had a few bad experiences with sore losers. Won't stop me from playing however.

It's fine not to gamble. Some of you guys wanna sit around sing kumbaya, braid each others hair and find out what your fall colors are?? Pool is a very aggressive game, kill or be killed. Two guys trying to get into each others wallets. What can be more brutally honest and beautiful than that?
 
People are always lamenting the fact that pool has not become a major sport in America, and they like to dream that if pool somehow got the right big backers that would change. But the problem is deeper than that. Two words: booze and gambling.

In what other sport do the participants drink while playing?

Pro snooker used to have an open bar for players until Bill came along - then it became players pay. :D

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2003/jan/24/guardianobituaries.snooker

Bill Werbeniuk, who has died aged 56, was a cult hero in the world of snooker, known for his prodigious consumption of lager. Four times a quarter-finalist in the Embassy world championships at the Crucible, Sheffield, between 1978 and 1983, he achieved a career-high ranking of eighth in 1984-85. At a time when snooker was emerging as a major television attraction, he became one of the game's best loved characters.

Born in Winnipeg, Werbeniuk was the son of a Canadian professional champion and former armed robber, fence and drug dealer. He began playing snooker as a child, and spent his formative years, often with his fellow countryman Cliff Thorburn, travelling across north America playing pool for money.

Both found it refreshing to compete for cash prizes when they joined the professional circuit, although Werbeniuk's fondness for his old life resurfaced from time to time. He once won $20,000 in 10 hours playing pool. "I lost it all in the next 20 minutes," he recalled, "but there was a guy with $200,000 and I was hoping to win that as well."

Although he beat almost all the top players of his day at one time or another, Werbeniuk never won a tournament, and reached only two finals. With Thorburn and Kirk Stevens, he took special pleasure in winning the World Team Cup for Canada in 1982. Thorburn said this week: "We were great friends off the table. While everyone else was arguing among themselves, we were a unit."

Werbeniuk suffered from hypoglaecaemia, a condition which enabled his body to burn off sugar and alcohol exceptionally quickly. He was thus able to cope with drinking at least six pints of lager before a match, a pint per frame during it, and a few sociable ones afterwards. But he ballooned out to 20 stone in weight because he he thought it the best way to control the pronounced tremor he developed in his cue arm as a result of the alcohol consumption.

While playing in the 1980 World Team Cup challenge, Werbeniuk's weight was so substantial that he managed to split his trousers, live on BBC television. On another occasion, he literally drank the Scottish professional Eddie Sinclair under the snooker table by consuming 42 pints. At one stage, the inland revenue allowed his spending on lager as a tax deductible expense.

The north American champion in 1973, Werbeniuk moved to Britain in 1978, basing himself in a converted bus in Worksop, Nottinghamshire. His career ended in 1990 because he was taking the banned beta-blocker Inderal to deal with the strain of alcohol consumption on his heart. Although he maintained that he could not play without the drug - it was, he argued, not performance enhancing but performance enabling - he was fined and suspended by the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association.

After the ruling, he went home to Vancouver to live with his mother on disability benefits, play cards and watch sport on television. He severed all ties with snooker, except to express sporadic bitterness against the circumstances of his leaving it. His concluding years, including bankruptcy in 1991, were in sad contrast to the gregarious and stimulating times of his prime.

· William Alexander Werbeniuk, snooker player, born January 14 1947; died January 20 2003
 
I don't gamble much, at all. Not a big fan. However, people occasionally talk me into it. Last week I lost $40, which sucked. Tonight I won $60, which was nice, but I don't really care to do it again.

I think what bothers me is some people just can't enjoy the game unless money is on the line. I've had people stop and walk away in the middle of racking because I said "I don't play for money". That's the closest I've come to violence at the pool table...f**king rude as sh*t!

I love the game itself and cannot comprehend only doing it for money. It IS nice to win some and my hatred of losing money does make me try harder and (hopefully) play better, but I still have a great time just playing for fun. Keep in mind, pool is ultimately a stress relief for me.

If you are a money-only player, please help me understand your mindset. Thanks.

ps - When I do take the challenge for money it's only ever with people I know personally and whom I feel are decent people. Never strangers. The 2 folks I've played recently are good people and I've no bad feelings about them, but their disinterest in the game without money just got me thinking and pondering.

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I have read all the responses and some rose many valid points.
I have been playing pool since I was 6 yrs old, so 46 years on the pool table. Early on it was just for fun. As I got into my 20's, I was the young gun in the pool hall and I used to gamble with the older guys to see if I was better. I won most of my matches and earned a slot in our local pool world. We all knew who was the best/worst and learned to play against others of the same level.
I used to go around to the bars and play in tournies for extra money, most bar players were easy picking. I would try to bet on all my matches for a side bet, this would maximize my winnings.
I was never a huge gambler, most I played for was $500 a set, which I've done a few times. Most times it's lower stakes, maybe $20/$50 set or maybe $5/$10 per game. So basically I was small potatoes and avoided the big gamblers.
In my 30's I got married and had a kid, this ended my pool playing for almost 7 years until I got divorced.
Since then, I have changed a bit.....don't get me wrong, I still like to play for something but I don't go out looking for action any more. If a game comes up while I'm at the pool hall I will play but I don't run down to the pool hall just because somebody says some new guy is in town.
The truth of the matter is.....in most cases it's really not "gambling". I learned a long time ago that the game is won/lost before both players get to the pool table. When money is involved, all the negotiating is done before the players get to the pool table. The better player will win if the match is even and if too much weight is given the better player will lose. So really the only true gambling is when two players don't know each other and match up for an even game. (this is very rare)
Nowadays I like to wager something to have a gauge/barometer of our skill levels. If I just play for funsies then I will go for everything, 2 rail kicks, 3 rail banks, safeties don't matter. If I lose then it's no biggie cause nothing will be lost. When I play for $20/$50 set then I really don't want to lose because it affects my wallet. So with a little money on the line, I will play safeties as needed so I can get the win. So, I feel my best game comes out if I wager a bit. I'm not saying it makes me a better shot maker but it definitely makes me think about what I'm doing a bit more.
JMHO
 
$40 down?... $60 up?... $20 sets I assume?

that is not gambling.... league players can pay that much in league fees and bar tabs every week.... and that's even when they win. Tourney guys spend more in travel, lodging, food and entry fees than anyone in pool. Buy a home table and some nice cues. Go to the DCC, SBE, or Mosconi Cup as a fan or player... the bottom line is that there are lots of ways to spend your money in pool

you are mistaking small dollar games that use small amounts of money for motivation in order to get a "real" game out of someone.... for actual gambling gambling

the guy may have been rude in your opinion, but he wasn't interested in practicing with you... and he made his point quite clearly... and you didn't like it

my guess is that he did exactly what he wanted to do... and here you are this morning telling the world about it. I like his play.

and that is all part of the game, or gamesmanship, that does not exist in the happy happy practice pool world. All good players enjoy the basic "Pleasures of Small Motions" that the game presents, but it can also have an emotional aspect that is enhanced with the stress and risk of even a small amount of money on the line. Bragging rights just don't cut it after awhile.

Not saying the practice world isn't a necessary part of pool, but when you get to a certain skill level, you will either have to be satisfied with that end result or take the results of all that practice and see where you stand.... pick someone of equal skill, pick an overrated big mouth, or a quiet better player... whatever turns you on, save some $$ (small) and take a dive into the more primal part of your self. It's a good thing... if for nothing else, than to see what you are REALLY made of... not just your pool game (which you will find out also)... but you, as a competitor

I personally love the edginess of that aspect of pool... watching those interpersonal dynamics play out is almost as much fun for railbirds as actually playing in the match or seeing what pattern he/she comes up with

as long as someone is not betting more than they have to lose, I think it's a good thing

you should not be insulted though... if you think they are too good and would be stealing, say so and get a spot, or just say no, I'm scared

by the way, does this guy "know" you?

↑↑↑ This.... all day.
Kinda falls in line with my way of thinking. At some point the game we are all talking about here is going to lose a lot of that luck and some real skill is going to be shown (hopefully on both sides) So when is it not gambling? Unless you're sweating the match from somewhere else, of course.

If you're scared say you're scared. Otherwise jump in the box, step up and see what you got.

$20-$60 is truly league fees, for a night. And if losing that bursts any players bubble, they have bigger problems than missing an APA session.

I think about as highly of people that don't gamble as they think about me...
 
I don't gamble much, at all. Not a big fan. However, people occasionally talk me into it. Last week I lost $40, which sucked. Tonight I won $60, which was nice, but I don't really care to do it again.

I think what bothers me is some people just can't enjoy the game unless money is on the line. I've had people stop and walk away in the middle of racking because I said "I don't play for money". That's the closest I've come to violence at the pool table...f**king rude as sh*t!

I love the game itself and cannot comprehend only doing it for money. It IS nice to win some and my hatred of losing money does make me try harder and (hopefully) play better, but I still have a great time just playing for fun. Keep in mind, pool is ultimately a stress relief for me.

If you are a money-only player, please help me understand your mindset. Thanks.

ps - When I do take the challenge for money it's only ever with people I know personally and whom I feel are decent people. Never strangers. The 2 folks I've played recently are good people and I've no bad feelings about them, but their disinterest in the game without money just got me thinking and pondering.

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i never used to like it as like you i played for the fun of game

i started playing for drinks and low money as i got better and now I only play tournaments or gambling matches

this is because it keeps me at optimum competitive level: meaning always pressure on every shot and other times its simply because i think i can beat my opponent if i didnt i wouldn't play them
 
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