Gambling to Be the Best

Kerry Impson

Kerry Impson

Former player
Silver Member
(This subject was touched on in another thread, but I thought it worthy of its own thread):

I've always wondered about the adage that one must gamble for one's livelihood to be a champion.....does anyone suppose this is also true in other sports? Are aspiring young golfers advised to golf for money in order to reach their fullest potential? How about tennis or bowling? I haven't noticed this in other sports, but then again, I don't follow other sports. :p Is this advice offered to encourage players to understand the importance of every shot, every game, while assuming that they can't learn this lesson without risking their wallets? (I would tend to think the disposition of the player makes a huge difference.) It's true, of course, that all financially successful sports have a system in place to groom players for professional status - junior tournaments, qualifying tournaments, etc. - whereas pool generally does not (although the WPBA has many of these components); perhaps that is one reason why the "gambling to improve one's game" motto is not so obvious in other sports? I'm just curious, as one who never did much gambling (and now wonders if this has been my problem!! LOL).

Incidentally, my opinion is that gambling is not necessary to better one's game, not even for small stakes; but it does seem that most top male players have honed their skills by gambling. What say ye?
 
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Gambling

Terry, I do not believe you need to gamble to become the best you can be.
I also don't believe that people who are in the top ten in their chosen field, boxing, golf, basketball, football, doctors, lawyers or any other profession, got there through gambling. I know some pretty heavy gamblers myself. 1 is a stake horse who thinks nothing about losing 30 or 40 grand in a couple of days. Then go back the very next week and try and win it back. It is all about something for nothing, egos, and hustling. You want to play for a couple of beers, table time, or lunch, let's do it. I do not want your food money, rent money, gas money, or money better off spent on your kids. Maybe I am strange, but I would rather give ya $500 in a time of need than go blow it on gambling. Some people would call it "No Heart", I call it "Good Heart".
Purdman
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Terry, I do not believe you need to gamble to become the best you can be.
I also don't believe that people who are in the top ten in their chosen field, boxing, golf, basketball, football, doctors, lawyers or any other profession, got there through gambling. I know some pretty heavy gamblers myself. 1 is a stake horse who thinks nothing about losing 30 or 40 grand in a couple of days. Then go back the very next week and try and win it back. It is all about something for nothing, egos, and hustling. You want to play for a couple of beers, table time, or lunch, let's do it. I do not want your food money, rent money, gas money, or money better off spent on your kids. Maybe I am strange, but I would rather give ya $500 in a time of need than go blow it on gambling. Some people would call it "No Heart", I call it "Good Heart".
Purdman
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tap-tap-tap
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Terry, I do not believe you need to gamble to become the best you can be.
I also don't believe that people who are in the top ten in their chosen field, boxing, golf, basketball, football, doctors, lawyers or any other profession, got there through gambling. I know some pretty heavy gamblers myself. 1 is a stake horse who thinks nothing about losing 30 or 40 grand in a couple of days. Then go back the very next week and try and win it back. It is all about something for nothing, egos, and hustling. You want to play for a couple of beers, table time, or lunch, let's do it. I do not want your food money, rent money, gas money, or money better off spent on your kids. Maybe I am strange, but I would rather give ya $500 in a time of need than go blow it on gambling. Some people would call it "No Heart", I call it "Good Heart".
Purdman
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I think that was a good reply Donald
I agree
 
Kerry Impson said:
(This subject was touched on in another thread, but I thought it worthy of its own thread):

I've always wondered about the adage that one must gamble for one's livelihood to be a champion.....does anyone suppose this is also true in other sports? Are aspiring young golfers advised to golf for money in order to reach their fullest potential? How about tennis or bowling? I haven't noticed this in other sports, but then again, I don't follow other sports. :p Is this advice offered to encourage players to understand the importance of every shot, every game, while assuming that they can't learn this lesson without risking their wallets? (I would tend to think the disposition of the player makes a huge difference.) It's true, of course, that all financially successful sports have a system in place to groom players for professional status - junior tournaments, qualifying tournaments, etc. - whereas pool generally does not (although the WPBA has many of these components); perhaps that is one reason why the "gambling to improve one's game" motto is not so obvious in other sports? I'm just curious, as one who never enjoyed gambling (and now wonders if this has been my problem!! LOL).
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Kerry,
Despite my past, I will go on record as saying that gambling is misdirected energy and will ultimately stunt your growth as a player. If the money gambled on pool was directed toward something positive for the sport, who knows... we might get somewhere. Vendors are complaining that they aren't making money at events, but plenty of money is changing hands at the money tables. Boggles the mind.
 
Kerry Impson said:
(This subject was touched on in another thread, but I thought it worthy of its own thread):

I've always wondered about the adage that one must gamble for one's livelihood to be a champion.....does anyone suppose this is also true in other sports? Are aspiring young golfers advised to golf for money in order to reach their fullest potential? How about tennis or bowling? I haven't noticed this in other sports, but then again, I don't follow other sports. :p Is this advice offered to encourage players to understand the importance of every shot, every game, while assuming that they can't learn this lesson without risking their wallets? (I would tend to think the disposition of the player makes a huge difference.) It's true, of course, that all financially successful sports have a system in place to groom players for professional status - junior tournaments, qualifying tournaments, etc. - whereas pool generally does not (although the WPBA has many of these components); perhaps that is one reason why the "gambling to improve one's game" motto is not so obvious in other sports? I'm just curious, as one who never enjoyed gambling (and now wonders if this has been my problem!! LOL).
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Kerry,
I think theres betting in all sports. In bowling, pool and golf it might be more
prominent than in other sports. I do think it helps the players betting to
advance quicker.
I knew two girls that met twice a week and played a match for lunch. Not big betting but its still gambling. They said it was common where they played for luch or dinner or something to be on the line.
My buddy plays racketball and they gamble playing that as well.

I am not sure however how many players of different sports have been pushed to gamble to get better. I think it helps to a certain degree but I also
believe that some people are just "losers". Not as people but just in gambling.


Kerry
Not sure if you remember Casey Looper when we used to play him pool. I know he was not gambling on pool trying to improve but rather to have a
social life and make friends. However Wai on the other hand would run through you for a quarter a game and try not to let you win a game.
Some people have the killer instinct and some dont.

Another thing I have noticed since getting back into pool is that people dont gamble cheap anymore. I remember days of betting almost nothing and not worried about betting more. Its hard to get a dollar bet on a quarter up table in a bar anymore. Its like people think they have to bet big.
Betting something small can be fun and add a little excitement.

on a slightly different note. My buddy has gotten into shooting and has joined a shooting club. He asked me to loan him $40 bucks because he did not ahve time to go to the bank on the way to their range. I said sure but asked why. They gamble every time they shoot. He said once that it
helped him try harder and from this he understood betting on pool.
I think there are bettors that will bet on almost anything and then theres people that just dont but it seems to be in almost everything to a degree.
 
Thanks for the responses so far, they have been terrific. For the record, let me state that I wasn't looking for advice about whether to gamble or not, as I have no intention of gambling. I'm just curious as to why I've noticed that axiom plugged so often (especially by other players when they learned I wasn't interested in gambling).

Thanks!
 
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Donald A. Purdy said:
Terry, I do not believe you need to gamble to become the best you can be.
I also don't believe that people who are in the top ten in their chosen field, boxing, golf, basketball, football, doctors, lawyers or any other profession, got there through gambling. I know some pretty heavy gamblers myself. 1 is a stake horse who thinks nothing about losing 30 or 40 grand in a couple of days. Then go back the very next week and try and win it back. It is all about something for nothing, egos, and hustling. You want to play for a couple of beers, table time, or lunch, let's do it. I do not want your food money, rent money, gas money, or money better off spent on your kids. Maybe I am strange, but I would rather give ya $500 in a time of need than go blow it on gambling. Some people would call it "No Heart", I call it "Good Heart".
Purdman
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My sentiments exactly. Well said, Purdman!!
 
Kerry Impson said:
(This subject was touched on in another thread, but I thought it worthy of its own thread):

I've always wondered about the adage that one must gamble for one's livelihood to be a champion.....does anyone suppose this is also true in other sports? Are aspiring young golfers advised to golf for money in order to reach their fullest potential? How about tennis or bowling? I haven't noticed this in other sports, but then again, I don't follow other sports. :p Is this advice offered to encourage players to understand the importance of every shot, every game, while assuming that they can't learn this lesson without risking their wallets? (I would tend to think the disposition of the player makes a huge difference.) It's true, of course, that all financially successful sports have a system in place to groom players for professional status - junior tournaments, qualifying tournaments, etc. - whereas pool generally does not (although the WPBA has many of these components); perhaps that is one reason why the "gambling to improve one's game" motto is not so obvious in other sports? I'm just curious, as one who never did much gambling (and now wonders if this has been my problem!! LOL).

Incidentally, my opinion is that gambling is not necessary to better one's game, not even for small stakes; but it does seem that most top male players have honed their skills by gambling. What say ye?
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I think a player like you would benefit from gambling. You have to compete to stay sharp and this is the best way to book competition. The stakes don't matter much. Maybe to you, $20 - $50 sets are as much pressure as you need.

The kind of players I like to gamble with are the competitors. They want to compete. They play to exhibit their skill. They want to play others who can give them a tough game. This is sparring, to some it's war, and these are the players who will improve from it. The stakes don't matter, these players want to battle.

Then there are the lock artists. These types are always looking to make money. These players have no heart at all and only play if they are heavy favorites. These are your road players and hustlers. Because they are almost never playing someone at their level (for long) I think it kills their game. They quit fast when faced with competition.

Then there are the gambling degenerates. They are their own breed and the bottom line is, sooner or later they always lose.

Chris
 
Gambling on pool wasn't by choice - It was fueled by HUNGER!

For many of the Old-Timers - Gambling on their ability to beat someone else at a pool game wasn't by choice. It was the ONLY way to generate revenue. When I was 14 and wanted a bike, go to a show, new Levi’s, save for a car, etc. - I got it by playing pool.
Oh - I had jobs, but they couldn't compare to what I could make at the poolroom. A lot of my friends got into drug sales, auto theft, etc, to get a buck. I saw the poolroom as the lesser of evils to achieve.
Would I want my Son to follow in my footsteps? - NO, and he hasn’t.
But would I trade any of my life's experiences and rewards as far as pool goes? - NO
As I have stated in other threads - Gambling on pool definitely groomed my skills and without it, I can't conceive getting to the level of playing that I have achieved.
BUT THAT WAS THEN - NOT NOW!
I don't pretend to know how it works now (nor do I care as long as I see the game still very un-rewarding).
I'm glad I did - what I did - when I did it!
And I'm glad I don't have to do it to make a living anymore!

TY & GL
 
I agree with Purdy to a certain extent with regards to high stakes and "no heart" stuff. You don't need to gamble to prove anything to anyone. HOWEVER there are many positives you get from gambling on a regular basis. I think somebody mentioned that Efren commented on this, that he built up a resilience to pressure by playing for money everyday. Billiards is a "touch" game/sport and pressure can have a serious effect on your touch/stroke. I strongy beleive that the more you play under in "pressure situations" the better you will be when it comes to playing for higher stakes or in big competitions. For me though there are two types of pressure:

1) playing for some kind of stake, whether it be playing for the lights or
$100,000.

2) Playing in front of a large crowd.

Personally I never noticed much difference between playing for the lights or for a few hundred dollars, if your a competitive person you will want to win just as badly no matter what you are playing for and the pressure will be the same. But generally you are going to get a lot more people watching if you are playing a high stakes game as to opposed playing for a ham sandwhich.

So to sum up I would say that playing for some "stake" however small makes practice mean something and builds up resillience to pressure effecting your stroke. But I do beleive that playing in front of larger crowds for higher stakes adds something extra to a players game.

But all in all nothing to do with heart or cowards it just about getting used to playing under pressure and in front of large crowds. This in my opinion is great preperation for tournament play and I could never understand why a good money player could not play well in tournaments?
 
Kerry Impson said:
Thanks for the responses so far, they have been terrific. For the record, let me state that I wasn't looking for advice about whether to gamble or not, as I have no intention of gambling. I'm just curious as to why I've noticed that axiom plugged so often (especially by other players when they learned I wasn't interested in gambling).

Thanks!
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I believe most people who have been through the gambling "trial by fire" believe it is the only way to get that battle-hardened toughness. For some people it is absolutely true.

I also know others who would try to beat their grandmothers, just because they can't stand to lose - whether there is money on the table or not.

Then there is the small percentage of people that love to play and want to win, but feel it's more fulfilling to play your best even if you don't win. The journey is the thing with them. It's not about taking something from someone, it's about improving yourself. I think I'm in this category.

Reggie Jackson said something to effect of "I hate losing. I don't mind getting beat. But, I hate to lose." Hmmmmm.


Dalai-Scott :p
 
To TheOne - It All Comes Down To Barrels.

TheOne said:
I could never understand why a good money player could not play well in tournaments?
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For me & IMO - When I play in a tourney, I am allowed either one or two barrels. When I Play For Ca$h - I can manage my bankroll & bet accordingly.
Just recently, I found a secret for myself in tourney play. It is not a cure-all but it helps quite a bit if I can get a good size wager on the match. Now I have fooled myself into thinking I'm playing for ca$h & not in a tourney.

TY & GL
 
TheOne said:
I could never understand why a good money player could not play well in tournaments?
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In tournaments you only have two barrels!! :p

(OldHasBeen, great minds think alike!!) ;)
 
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Pressure

TheOne said:
.... Efren...... built up a resilience to pressure by playing for money everyday.
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There are many different kinds of pressure for different people. Tiger Woods had an almost ubelievable amateur career, playing for himself, turned pro and has had an unbelievable pro career, playing for himself. He was called the king of match-play, based on his amateur record; one one one against his opponents. And, he's won a couple (I think 2) of big match play events as a pro. How about his match play in the Ryder Cup? Shaky, at best.

So, does the best golfer in the past xx years suddenly forget to play the game? Doubtful. He has proven on many stages that he is consistently bullet-proof under pressure. How does his Ryder Cup performance happen? What is the difference? Hmmm . . . . he has teammates relying on his performance. Totally different kind of pressure. Is that the answer? Who knows for sure. Maybe he just doesn't give a rip about the event. I find that doubtful, given his competetive nature. The one big variable is the team situation.

Anyway, my point is different people, different perception of pressure.

IMHO.
 
OldHasBeen said:
For me & IMO - When I play in a tourney, I am allowed either one or two barrels. When I Play For Ca$h - I can manage my bankroll & bet accordingly.
Just recently, I found a secret for myself in tourney play. It is not a cure-all but it helps quite a bit if I can get a good size wager on the match. Now I have fooled myself into thinking I'm playing for ca$h & not in a tourney.

TY & GL
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Hmmmm...Maybe you fall into the degenerate category.
 
I dont consider myself a big gambler. I do gamble alot but nothing more than race to 10 for $100. It did help me grow as a player and IMO it helps learn to play under pressure. What better motivation to improve than losing the money you go to work to earn everyday? I was a kid who gambled everything i had. I was stupid. It did help my game though.
 
ScottR said:
Anyway, my point is different people, different perception of pressure.
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I agree 100% with that statement, and that's what I meant by the disposition of the player making a huge difference. When I played pro I felt pressure to perform because (a) I paid to compete in the event, and (b) there was always someone watching. This motivated me to concentrate fully and bear down. At the same time, I was used to this pressure because my practice consisted solely of playing in as many tournaments as I could find.....whereas now, all of my practice is at home; and although it's definitely better practice than before, I really feel the pressure when I'm competing in a tournament! :(
 
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