Games of pool and their level of LUCK

A

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think all games in pool has some luck involved in them no doubt about it, but some games are more than others, here in this thread I won't be stating every single pool game since there are many, some of which we even didn't hear about. but I want to state some of the more known games world wide by everyone.

The way I consider luck isn't by lucking in a ball only, I take into consideration everything, how the things will layout to give somebody a win, or how the whole game is played that can produce a winner that don't deserve the win itself, remember its not only by lucking in balls that doesn't mean anything if you lose in the end.

it's the layout factor, break, luck of how things go in the game that cause some weaker player to win.

The games we going to list here are, 8ball, 9ball, 10ball, bank pool, one pocket.

I know people has different opinions on almost everything and I'm interested to know other people's opinions about this subject.

Here's my list of luck in games in order from Luckiest to least luckiest. so if you want to list yours, make it so it's from most lucky game on top, then to the least luck. my list is the same order as I listed the games previously.

#1 8ball --- (Most luck, reason is the way the game lays most of the time can determines the winner, you could play perfect but this game can throw you off and made a weaker player beat you, you could run the balls and be forced to make an open for a cluster which doesn't work due to luck then when the other guy has 7balls and you are only on the black, its their game 99% of the time, and his game will be 10 times easier because no other balls on the table, it is my opinion that on 8ball it's possible for a B- or even C player to beat an A player, no other game can offer this except 8ball)

#2 9ball --- (Mostly due to the break, and some luck in the games itself, but also in 9ball I believe a B player can beat A player if it's a shorter race, unless the A player plays perfect, unlike 8ball, in 8ball maybe A player plays perfect but still loses to B player or even C player.

#3 10ball --- (I think the longer the race is in this game, the luck diminishes more and more, still as a game of pool there is luck involved, but not as big as 8ball and 9ball, I think this is a balanced game, longer races will show the better player, anything above 11 games an A player will win 90% of the time against a B player)

#4 Bank pool --- ( This game needs a feeling of the game, if you are a banker, you will win most of the time, an A player will 95% of the time beat a B player in this game, there will be no luck involved "Playing by derby city rules". You can also see that the same players keep winning and winning tournaments when its bank pool, which is a clear evidence that luck is so little in this game, same if you think in tennis, why do you keep seeing the same player at top 4 on tennis always go to the semi-finals and finals in every single tournament, cause there isn't much luck and its all game, same in bank pool, always the same good players go to the end)

#5 One Pocket --- ( There's no question in my mind that one pocket has the least luck between all the five games above, an A player in this game will 98% win against a B player, it has few rolls because it's pool, but still, if its race to 4 and above, the better player will win)


p.s. you can clearly see from history that 8ball and 9ball can be won by anybody, sometimes a new player would win those at any given time if they get the rolls, it's part of pool, but the whole point of this thread is so show you that some other games have lesser luck than others, and some guys swear to me that 8ball has the least luck only because they call balls in the pocket, and i'm telling them it's not always about calling the balls, ive seen so many times a C player beat B+ or A player in 8ball where it doesn't happen in any other games, layout and pool gods play huge role in deciding who will win in 8ball.

Tell me what you think, even if you dont want to explain, just list to me what you think the order of games above from luckiest to least luck.
 
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Well first of all you need to consider most of these games you mention are played in sets. While its true anyone can win a single game against anyone else, its sort of a moot point since they aren't played that way.

Now in a set, the better player will practically always win

Interestingly, the only game played as a single game that would practically never be won by the lesser player isn't even mentioned in your list.

Besides being the game with the least luck factor in all of pool, besides it being the father of all games of pool, and besides it being the only game that should be used to determine a world champion for lots of the reasons you mentioned, its the greatest game in pool.

And it never even got mentioned. Another example of how the game of pool has digressed.
 
This is a cool thread which should lead to some interesting discussion.

I will have to agree that 8 ball is the luckiest for the reasons stated above. Another reason is if you miss position on your next ball, many times you have 2 or even 3 alternate shots to work with. While in the rotation games, you are fortunate to even see the ball after a blown position.

And 3andstop has a great point, 14.1 should be added to the original post as the #6 least of luck games. 100% of the time, the A player will beat the B player in a game to 100. The amount of skill it takes to run racks, I feel is extremely unappreciated in the modern day age of pool.
 
For me, banks are two categories....full rack and short rack.

Most skillful
1- full rack banks
2- short rack banks
2- one pocket
2- straight pool
 
pt109 said:
For me, banks are two categories....full rack and short rack.

Most skillful
1- full rack banks
2- short rack banks
2- one pocket
2- straight pool
Click to expand...

Is short rack banks when you break a 15 ball rack but only have to get to 7?
Pardon my ignorance, I really never get a chance to watch competition bank pool, and it is something I want to commit to watching more of.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Is short rack banks when you break a 15 ball rack but only have to get to 7?
Pardon my ignorance, I really never get a chance to watch competition bank pool, and it is something I want to commit to watching more of.
Click to expand...

Short rack banks uses nine balls, racked in a diamond, just like 9-ball....and players
break like 9-ball...if you make a ball on the break, you get to fire at a bank...the ball made
on the break spots up after your inning.
First man to get 5 banks up wins.

In full rack, whoever makes 8 banks wins....and they tend to break safe.
The moves in full rack are very complicated.

In short rack, any good player can beat a bank specialist in a short race...
...in full rack, the man is toast.
It's like like moving from checkers to chess
 
Agree

I think your list is about right. I also think the better the players and the longer the sets on 9' tables, the less luck determines the out come.

I have watched some pretty sloppy 9 ball games on bar tables.
 
Theres a reason..,

billiardthought said:
Interesting that american rotation was not mentioned, and disturbing that straight pool was forgotten.
Click to expand...

Straight Pool isn't mentioned because nobody plays it, so its not a good tool to measure current day Pool players with. Every time the conversation comes up its all about who did what in the sixties and that doesn't matter today.

Most modern rotation players play good enough at the games mentioned that the luck factor is minimized over time from game to game.
 
My local poolhall has 14.1 league on 2 nights out of the week. On out popularity and judging from league participation it would be 8-ball, 9-ball, 14.1 and then 1 pocket.

King T said:
Straight Pool isn't mentioned because nobody plays it, so its not a good tool to measure current day Pool players with. Every time the conversation comes up its all about who did what in the sixties and that doesn't matter today.

Most modern rotation players play good enough at the games mentioned that the luck factor is minimized over time from game to game.
Click to expand...
 
I have always thought that 8 ball has much less luck than 9 ball, I believe that a better player will almost always win in a game a 8 ball due to it being a much more strategical game than 9 ball. The situation you described may happen, but a good player knows when to run out, if he is unsure of a break-out, he should play safe and banking on the fact that the other player will not run-out (B, C players rarely runs out in a game of 8 ball, especially when there is a cluster or any problems in their running pattern). An A player will never leave the 8 ball on the table unless he missed the 8 ball.
 
King T said:
Straight Pool isn't mentioned because nobody plays it, so its not a good tool to measure current day Pool players with. Every time the conversation comes up its all about who did what in the sixties and that doesn't matter today.

Most modern rotation players play good enough at the games mentioned that the luck factor is minimized over time from game to game.
Click to expand...

It is still played in my poolroom and I play it sometimes myself and I will tell you that there is very little, if any, luck in 14.1. You need to be good at bridging over balls, using the bridge, safe play, every shot is called and cannot be lucked in unless you make your called shot too. . A ball cannot be lucked in as it can in one pocket where there are no called shots. It may be the most skillful game there is.
 
One thing not taken into account, is that an A player in 9 ball may only be a B player in 8 ball, and even lower in banks or one pocket if they never play the game. A true B player in 8 ball will not be beating a true A player in 8 ball very often at all.

There is a lot more to 8 ball than many give credit to. No real A player in 8 ball is going to be leaving himself no shot on the 8 after running out except in a rare glitch.

I think 9 ball has the most luck by far. Banks the least amount of luck.
 
philly said:
It is still played in my poolroom and I play it sometimes myself and I will tell you that there is very little, if any, luck in 14.1. You need to be good at bridging over balls, using the bridge, safe play, every shot is called and cannot be lucked in unless you make your called shot too. . A ball cannot be lucked in as it can in one pocket where there are no called shots. It may be the most skillful game there is.
Click to expand...

One pocket is just as strict as straight pool call shots....you only have one pocket that counts,
same as straight pool....and you can get lucky at either game by making a shot in your
chosen pocket on a fluke.
 
pt109 said:
One pocket is just as strict as straight pool call shots....you only have one pocket that counts,
same as straight pool....and you can get lucky at either game by making a shot in your
chosen pocket on a fluke.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But how often does one make a fluke called shot in 14.1 and how often does an opponent make a ball in your pocket in one pocket? I think it happens more often in one pocket. Don't get me wrong. I play one pocket too and appreciate the subtle nature of the game. I think you don't see a lot of 14.1 anymore is because you need a lot of patience and you can sit for a long time in 14.1. Not many players have the ability to sit for a long time and then get to the table with the same gear.
 
One thing is for sure, an F player can take frames off a pro in 9 Ball. They'll take 1/3 as many in 10-ball, but rarely win in the other games vs a very good player.

That said, it shouldn't be about eliminating luck. There's very little luck in chess, but I don't want to play chess on a pool table, I want reward for shot making much more so than strategy.

Colin
 
philly said:
Agreed. But how often does one make a fluke called shot in 14.1 and how often does an opponent make a ball in your pocket in one pocket? I think it happens more often in one pocket. Don't get me wrong. I play one pocket too and appreciate the subtle nature of the game. I think you don't see a lot of 14.1 anymore is because you need a lot of patience and you can sit for a long time in 14.1. Not many players have the ability to sit for a long time and then get to the table with the same gear.
Click to expand...

If luck means scoring unintentional balls, then one pocket leads all the games in luck IMO. How many times do we kick off the long rail into the rack, or we shoot an opponent's ball two rails into the rack and balls fall for us. Now don't get me wrong, I love one pocket neck and neck to straight pool, but many balls fall each game that we didn't expect.

I think you were very generous in your explanation why straight pool isn't played anymore.

I'm not. I say straight pool isnt played because too many hot shot pool players that think they are great players don't want to be caught with their pants down as humbled C players when they are exposed as not being able to get through a rack of balls and fall on the next rack's break ball. That's what I think. :D
 
pt109 said:
Short rack banks uses nine balls, racked in a diamond, just like 9-ball....and players
break like 9-ball...if you make a ball on the break, you get to fire at a bank...the ball made
on the break spots up after your inning.
First man to get 5 banks up wins.

In full rack, whoever makes 8 banks wins....and they tend to break safe.
The moves in full rack are very complicated.

In short rack, any good player can beat a bank specialist in a short race...
...in full rack, the man is toast.
It's like like moving from checkers to chess
Click to expand...

Very cool. Thanks for the info.
 
3andstop said:
If luck means scoring unintentional balls, then one pocket leads all the games in luck IMO. How many times do we kick off the long rail into the rack, or we shoot an opponent's ball two rails into the rack and balls fall for us. Now don't get me wrong, I love one pocket neck and neck to straight pool, but many balls fall each game that we didn't expect.

I think you were very generous in your explanation why straight pool isn't played anymore.

I'm not. I say straight pool isnt played because too many hot shot pool players that think they are great players don't want to be caught with their pants down as humbled C players when they are exposed as not being able to get through a rack of balls and fall on the next rack's break ball. That's what I think. :D
Click to expand...

Mostly in agreement here.

I've run more consecutive balls playing 9-ball than my high in straight-pool, tho. Mostly it is because I've not had enough desire or reason to play straight pool in sufficient quantity to get super comfortable with the game.

What I disagree with in 1-p is that making balls is also lucky. I take a lot of shots that are calculated to get, and stay near my pocket the fact that some go unexpectedly is a very small bit of luck.

On the other hand, when I won a tourney making the 9 on the break three times in a row...that was luck. I don't have a good enough break to even assume I'll make any ball on the break 75% of the time, so to have three nines in a row is on the far right-end of the bell curve.
 
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