Ethanol is nothing new. Many companies sold a blend of it in the 70's. The problem is if your car had certain rubber components in the fuel system the ethanol would deteriorate them. That is why the pumps use to have a sticker on them that their gasoline contained no Ethanol.
Gas Prices JUMPED $.08 in 24 Hours
- Thread starter PoolSleuth
- Start date
_______________________________________________________daytonajoe said:
I wish it was that simple - If we "successfully" boycott Exxon and Mobil gasoline what do you think BP and Sunoco will do with their prices? If total demand continues gas prices will remain in the current GREEDY price range.
If you think $3 gas is high now just wait till Israel and/or the US drops several big ones on Iran's nuke plants. Due to Irans' severe military reaction, almost ALL oil tanker shipments will immediately stop moving thru the Straight of Hormuz (SP?) . Oil tankers the size of aircraft carriers don't dodge rockets well. That means Saudi, Iraq, Iranian, UAE and Kuwait shipments are zero.
This strong possibility is already partially built into todays price of $71 per barrell of crude. Don't underestimate the ridiculously simple "supply vs demand" rules. All energy prices could easily get much much much worse!
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$4.50 for regular at one Brooklyn, NY station
http://www.nydailynews.com/04-19-2006/news/story/410059p-346997c.html
The auto show is in New York this week and I was extremely disappointed at the lack of prototypes for alternate fuel vehicles.
Even the current flock of hybrid vehicles seems to play to the American ideals of style over functionality.
Other than the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight (which are not very pleasing to look at), most "hybrids" get only a few miles per gallon more than their gasoline only counterparts and at a $5-$10,000 premium in some cases.
The peaks for warm weather gas prices usually follow the holidays.
Memorial Day
Fourth of July
Labor Day
They are saying $4 by Memorial Day and $5 by the Fourth of July or perhaps the end of the summer.
http://www.nydailynews.com/04-19-2006/news/story/410059p-346997c.html
The auto show is in New York this week and I was extremely disappointed at the lack of prototypes for alternate fuel vehicles.
Even the current flock of hybrid vehicles seems to play to the American ideals of style over functionality.
Other than the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight (which are not very pleasing to look at), most "hybrids" get only a few miles per gallon more than their gasoline only counterparts and at a $5-$10,000 premium in some cases.
The peaks for warm weather gas prices usually follow the holidays.
Memorial Day
Fourth of July
Labor Day
They are saying $4 by Memorial Day and $5 by the Fourth of July or perhaps the end of the summer.
Some speculate that it's the move away from the additive MTBE toward corn-based ethanol that's causing the price jumps - there just isn't as much ethanol production out there. Ethanol producers are trying to increase production.
It makes me glad I work from home - my commute is a flight of stairs.
It makes me glad I work from home - my commute is a flight of stairs.
What alternative fuels ??
Sorry about the non-pool rant here.
With gas at $3 which alternative fuels are now economicaly competitive for the old Chevrolet? Hydrogen, fuel cells, steam, ethanol, electric, wind, french fry grease, hamster power?? Will your deadbeat neighbor haul you around in a rickshaw for 35 cents a mile? Would you really prefer a hydrogen powered car that cost you 3 times as much per mile to drive vs $4 gas? How close is the nearest hydrogen pump? Don't think there are any quick, cheap and painless answers coming soon!
IMHO, Realistically absolutely none of the alternatives are now cost effective vs $3 gas. Maybe w/gas at $8 per gallon? $20 per gallon? When our technology improves on new fuels AND as the cost of gas doubles/quadruples we will then have the ability to replace a significant portion of our gas/oil consumption.
Normally I'm an optimistic guy to a fault but now thinking I should keep the bicycle tires full of air over the next 3 years (see Iran comments above). Where's the closest pool hall?
Sorry about the non-pool rant here.
With gas at $3 which alternative fuels are now economicaly competitive for the old Chevrolet? Hydrogen, fuel cells, steam, ethanol, electric, wind, french fry grease, hamster power?? Will your deadbeat neighbor haul you around in a rickshaw for 35 cents a mile? Would you really prefer a hydrogen powered car that cost you 3 times as much per mile to drive vs $4 gas? How close is the nearest hydrogen pump? Don't think there are any quick, cheap and painless answers coming soon!
IMHO, Realistically absolutely none of the alternatives are now cost effective vs $3 gas. Maybe w/gas at $8 per gallon? $20 per gallon? When our technology improves on new fuels AND as the cost of gas doubles/quadruples we will then have the ability to replace a significant portion of our gas/oil consumption.
Normally I'm an optimistic guy to a fault but now thinking I should keep the bicycle tires full of air over the next 3 years (see Iran comments above). Where's the closest pool hall?
Face it...we are all spoiled.
The United States has much cheaper gas than most of Great Britian and Europe. When I visited Ireland in 2001. I paid about $70.00 to fill my tank then on a small economy car. Americans are like little kids..they want big cars..they want cheap gas..they want it now, now, now. Gas is never going down in price, never. If you havent converted to a solar powered car, then you are using SOME type of fuel that needs to be sold and manufactured. And NO I dont have a solar powered car either. Whether its gasoline or hydrogen or ethanol, the Exxons of the world will be selling us SOMETHING to put in our cars for a long time...and getting rich doing it. Want things to change? Car pool. Take the local Metrolink or light rail system. Ride a bike to work. Havent done these things? Neither have I. Why? Because I am AMERICAN, because I am spoiled, because I like to drive where I want when I want. I am like a little child. Are you?
The United States has much cheaper gas than most of Great Britian and Europe. When I visited Ireland in 2001. I paid about $70.00 to fill my tank then on a small economy car. Americans are like little kids..they want big cars..they want cheap gas..they want it now, now, now. Gas is never going down in price, never. If you havent converted to a solar powered car, then you are using SOME type of fuel that needs to be sold and manufactured. And NO I dont have a solar powered car either. Whether its gasoline or hydrogen or ethanol, the Exxons of the world will be selling us SOMETHING to put in our cars for a long time...and getting rich doing it. Want things to change? Car pool. Take the local Metrolink or light rail system. Ride a bike to work. Havent done these things? Neither have I. Why? Because I am AMERICAN, because I am spoiled, because I like to drive where I want when I want. I am like a little child. Are you?
Chris said:
As wonderfull as bio-gas sounds, it actually takes more energy to produce than it's worth. If you take into account the fuel and fertilizer(made from natural gas) and the gassification process. bio-fuel is way less efficient than regular gas.
cueandcushion said:The United States has much cheaper gas than most of Great Britian and Europe. When I visited Ireland in 2001. I paid about $70.00 to fill my tank then on a small economy car. Americans are like little kids..they want big cars..they want cheap gas..they want it now, now, now. Gas is never going down in price, never. If you havent converted to a solar powered car, then you are using SOME type of fuel that needs to be sold and manufactured. And NO I dont have a solar powered car either. Whether its gasoline or hydrogen or ethanol, the Exxons of the world will be selling us SOMETHING to put in our cars for a long time...and getting rich doing it. Want things to change? Car pool. Take the local Metrolink or light rail system. Ride a bike to work. Havent done these things? Neither have I. Why? Because I am AMERICAN, because I am spoiled, because I like to drive where I want when I want. I am like a little child. Are you?
And the winner of the first person to speak the truth is.... ding ding ding ding!!!!!!!!! Thanks cueandcushion.
The fact is, we have or will reach peak oil production very shortly. What that means is, worldwide they will never be able to produce as much oil as they are today.
That doesn't mean we're going to run out of oil in 5 years or anything like that. It does mean that oil comapanies will not be able to pump from the ground more oil in a day than they do today.
We'll see a steady decline in production as known reserves(most of the worlds oil reserves are known) are exploited and less new fields are discovered.
Are the oil companies gouging us? yes they are. Do gas prices in North America reflect the current supply of oil. Maybe maybe not, but since we're the largest consumer perhaps we deserve a lower price. maybe we deserve to pay more.
I also would like to just clarify my bio-gas post. I was strictly talking about bio-gas produced using corn. I don't have any knowledge of ethenol produced by sugar cane.
now if we all owned deisles we could run around driving on deepfryer oil and are roads would all smell like french fries.
Banks
Banned
Welfare nation?
Don't forget those two simple words - Supply & Demand. Optimally, the gas companies will want the highest price they can without sacrificing a large amount of their customer base. Why sell 100 of something for a $5 profit when you can sell 50 for the same profit? If people are still buying less but at the same profit margin, that means you'll have even more to sell. With more to sell, it makes even more sense for a non-renewable resource. We all want the easy things, but CNC made a great point.. we want these things, and that's all there is to it. The more people want, the more expensive it will get.
Ever seen the South Park where they try to get rid of WalMart to save the town's shops? Nobody is forcing you to drive a car, pay high gas and insurance prices and ruin the environment. You want the gas companies to make less? Don't buy their product.
I personally think they should tax the hell out of gas and cars like they do in Europe (Denmark has something like 190% tax on cars) and use the revenue to reverse or contain the damage being done by their usage.
Yes, I own a car, but I'll walk a mile or two to the store when I go.
Don't forget those two simple words - Supply & Demand. Optimally, the gas companies will want the highest price they can without sacrificing a large amount of their customer base. Why sell 100 of something for a $5 profit when you can sell 50 for the same profit? If people are still buying less but at the same profit margin, that means you'll have even more to sell. With more to sell, it makes even more sense for a non-renewable resource. We all want the easy things, but CNC made a great point.. we want these things, and that's all there is to it. The more people want, the more expensive it will get.
Ever seen the South Park where they try to get rid of WalMart to save the town's shops? Nobody is forcing you to drive a car, pay high gas and insurance prices and ruin the environment. You want the gas companies to make less? Don't buy their product.
I personally think they should tax the hell out of gas and cars like they do in Europe (Denmark has something like 190% tax on cars) and use the revenue to reverse or contain the damage being done by their usage.
Yes, I own a car, but I'll walk a mile or two to the store when I go.
http://freedomfuelamerica.com/supergreenman said:now if we all owned deisles we could run around driving on deepfryer oil and are roads would all smell like french fries.
cueandcushion said:Want things to change? Car pool. Take the local Metrolink or light rail system. Ride a bike to work. Havent done these things? Neither have I. Why? Because I am AMERICAN, because I am spoiled, because I like to drive where I want when I want. I am like a little child. Are you?
I agree, but...
Most areas of this country have no rail service and no safe bike routes. I would love to walk to work, but the economics demand that I live 30+ miles and 60 minutes of traffic jam from my job. Our system has been organized in a rational manner from the point of view of those who own, but very irrational from the point of view of those who work and consume.
supergreenman said:
Exactly greenman, that's what I understand. If bio-fuel from corn or sugar was cost effective someone (US Corps) would supply us enormous amounts for a huge profit. Ethanol production is largely subsidized by our own tax $$'s. Profit is good. Price gouging isn't.
Also, I understand that gas in Europe is more than double our prices due to their huge gas taxes. Good ol socialism, wish I had 4 months paid vacation too.
Beyond supply vs demand: fuel demand is almost inelastic, ie price increases reduces the demand very little.
Jigger said:Exactly greenman, that's what I understand. If bio-fuel from corn or sugar was cost effective someone (US Corps) would supply us enormous amounts for a huge profit. Ethanol production is largely subsidized by our own tax $$'s. Profit is good. Price gouging isn't.
Also, I understand that gas in Europe is more than double our prices due to their huge gas taxes. Good ol socialism, wish I had 4 months paid vacation too.
Beyond supply vs demand: fuel demand is almost inelastic, ie price increases reduces the demand very little.
I also didn't want to mention it because I would sound like I'm taking a poke at people who are down, but the whole purpose of the bio gas legislation in my view is a sort of welfare for farmers. Although, it seems to me they have to work awfully damn hard to get it.
So gas prices are higher than you wanted. Is it going to stop you from buying that Scruggs you want? Or that plasma tv you have been craving for you pool table room. Are you not going to get that gas guzzler you have been wanting? No. Probably not. So gas prices are not as bad as people think. If I can afford it. You can more than likely afford it. Besides. You can save some money by sending your kids to a government school.
Also the $400million dollar retirement package. It wasn't for one year. The guy was on Exxon for 12 years and created a $52billion dollar profit. If someone bought you a lottery ticket and won you $52billion dollars you'd probably give them 1billion easy. And you didn't even have to work for it.
If you want to bring gas prices down do this. For the Florida folks. Next time there is a proposal to build Oil rigs off your coast. Show your represenatives you want it. It's not going to hurt your precious tourist industry. People will still take their kids to Disney. And high school spring breakers will still go to Panama City to get drunk and screw. Regardless if they can see an oil platform.
Write your congressman and senator that you want to allow Nuclear Plants in your backyard. Yes I said your backyard. If they built one behind my house I wouldn't have a problem. If there is a meltdown I'll be fortunate enough to die quickly. Same goes for refineries. If one blows up can anyone say Hotdog roast?
If you really want to bring prices down we need to quit caving in to the anti-capitalist enviromentalist crowd. The United States needs oil. And we can get it from the Middle East which will keep prices unstable. Or we can get it from us.
Also the $400million dollar retirement package. It wasn't for one year. The guy was on Exxon for 12 years and created a $52billion dollar profit. If someone bought you a lottery ticket and won you $52billion dollars you'd probably give them 1billion easy. And you didn't even have to work for it.
If you want to bring gas prices down do this. For the Florida folks. Next time there is a proposal to build Oil rigs off your coast. Show your represenatives you want it. It's not going to hurt your precious tourist industry. People will still take their kids to Disney. And high school spring breakers will still go to Panama City to get drunk and screw. Regardless if they can see an oil platform.
Write your congressman and senator that you want to allow Nuclear Plants in your backyard. Yes I said your backyard. If they built one behind my house I wouldn't have a problem. If there is a meltdown I'll be fortunate enough to die quickly. Same goes for refineries. If one blows up can anyone say Hotdog roast?
If you really want to bring prices down we need to quit caving in to the anti-capitalist enviromentalist crowd. The United States needs oil. And we can get it from the Middle East which will keep prices unstable. Or we can get it from us.
Anyone think it strange that V.P.Cheny still gets residues from Enron??? Or Bush still has sharers in oil companies???
