Gender Inequality (?)

[scttybee]

good friends with jean for a long time..i dont see her 1/8 as often as i used to..watching her play was nothing like watching most women today...her patterns were buddy hall like in nine ball and shot making was/is rediculous...jean does not get beat by B players.
she competed with men almost her whole life. brooklyn in the 60s and 70s was full of hundred ball runners and plain old scary goody players,
she played at the west end weekly tournament which was just the strongest weekly tournament maybe in east coast history.
while her competition you may say was weaker(in the ladies divisions) that was not and should not be part of anything...they changed the rules because of her..
allison,karen play very well and there is absolutely no disrespect when i say they would not be able to handle her for the long haul.
she like others before her played on nap cloth with crap balls and a nice but standardcue..no low deflection shafts,no moori tips (simonis obviously came into play but i know what she practiced on)

players who started on that stuff could probably drive a nail into a 2x4 with their strokes
see ya!

 

[(((Satori)))]

And I watched little Landon bounce Earl on a 10ft table.
And a couple of teenage Asian kids bounce Shane.
So what?
You're absolutely right, we would need to see women playing men as a common everyday occurrence to prove which sex is possibly better, but it's not happening, so how can you, or anyone, possibly know who IS better without proof?

What you say is simply not fact based, end of story.

Which woman would you stake if you decided to take this proof stuff seriously?

 

[one stroke]

Jasmin has competed with men in straight pool and She placed 5th in the men's World Straight Pool Championship in 2006, which was won by Thorsten Hohmann.
She also competes with the men on the Eruro tour

Kelly Fisher I think has the game that could be the best out of all the woman to compete with the men she has a break and power stroke few if any other woman have i think she's capable of beating anybody on a given day

1

 

[(((Satori)))]

Jasmin has competed with men in straight pool and She placed 5th in the men's World Straight Pool Championship in 2006, which was won by Thorsten Hohmann.
She also competes with the men on the Eruro tour

Kelly Fisher I think has the game that could be the best out of all the woman to compete with the men she has a break and power stroke few if any other woman have i think she's capable of beating anybody on a given day

1

Albin Ouschan is better than both. So are a lot of other men.

 

[one stroke]

Albin Ouschan is better than both. So are a lot of other men.

Yes of course he is and he would be a top 5 USA player but the question is where do you think they would fall in the Men's top 25
I think Kelly could be inside the top 20 in rotation and Jasmin could be inside the top 10
In straight pool

1

 

[Mr. Bond]

Which woman would you stake if you decided to take this proof stuff seriously?

Well see now there's the catch 22.
I don't know of any crop of top women who could beat down any crop of top men.
But since there has never been equal numbers of each, we have no substantial numbers to make an educated statement on which gender might actually dominate.
It may very well be the men, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
But right now, we don't know anything for sure. That's my only point.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Yes of course he is and he would be a top 5 USA player but the question is where do you think they would fall in the Men's top 25
I think Kelly could be inside the top 20 in rotation and Jasmin could be inside the top 10
In straight pool

1

Top 25 men? I dont think so. If you want to know where I think they would fall, I think they would fall somewhere short of where they could be if they had the genetic makeup of a man.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Well see now there's the catch 22.
I don't know of any crop of top women who could beat down any crop of top men.
But since there has never been equal numbers of each, we have no substantial numbers to make an educated statement on which gender might actually dominate.
It may very well be the men, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit.
But right now, we don't know anything for sure. That's my only point.

You are the one who is not basing your premise on facts. This equal numbers theory is just that, a theory, and it is a weak one when you consider that science points to genetic inequality. The only facts we have to base our opinion on is answered by comparing the top women with the top men.

Its like saying athletes with more slow twitch muscles fibers might be just as good of sprinters if more of them were to compete.

 

[RiverCity]

You are the one who is not being factual. Your whole premise is based on a theory of equal numbers when science points to genetic inequality.

Its like saying athletes with slow twitch muscles fibers might be just as good of sprinters if more of them were to compete.

If you know of any scientific study that has definitive information regarding the differences in ability to play pool between men and women, please post them up. Cherry picking information from a study that may or may not state that women arent as competitive as men, then using THAT information to state that women can not play pool as well as men is a fallacy. You cannot argue something as a fact, when it has not proven to be true.

If you were to say a 90lbs female can not physically lift as much weight as a current world power lifting champion, I dont think you would get many arguments.

 

[(((Satori)))]

If you know of any scientific study that has definitive information regarding the differences in ability to play pool between men and women, please post them up. Cherry picking information from a study that may or may not state that women arent as competitive as men, then using THAT information to state that women can not play pool as well as men is a fallacy. You cannot argue something as a fact, when it has not proven to be true.

If you were to say a 90lbs female can not physically lift as much weight as a current world power lifting champion, I dont think you would get many arguments.

This is just from a quick search. There is a lot more ot there.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...one-fuels-both-competition-and-protectiveness

 

[one stroke]

Top 25 men? I dont think so. If you want to know where I think they would fall, I think they would fall somewhere short of where they could be if they had the genetic makeup of a man.

You're probley correct becuase we are comparing the best however in the spirt of the post the fact is they are A players and better that more men than you could put a number on So its fair to say their better than the majority of men players but not as good as the top men players


1

 

[Mr. Bond]

You are the one who is not basing your premise on facts. This equal numbers theory is just that, a theory

All due respect, the fact is, we don't have enough information to say anything for sure.
To have equal numbers of women and men playing would be one way to compare stats.

To date there is absolutely no science to back a claim that men would dominate hands down. That's a fact as well. Testosterone, aggresive behavior, competitiveness, gender roles, protective behavior and overt risk taking have nothing to do with cognitive skill, intelligence and strategy.

Of course women and men think differently, function differently, and all that, but none of those differences dictate that a woman is incapable of doing what a man can do on a pool table. That's a fact as well.

If I have missed something, please enlighten me. I truly love to learn new things.

 

[Texdance]

Belinda S., coached by a grumpy old pool player, won two District titles in 4H Shooting Sports last season, beating out a large co-ed field of shooters.

Ms. S. was among the select group awarded a $1500 national college scholarship from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Her community service and Shooting Sports excellence earned her a second scholarship, sponsored by the Gun Club and valued at $1000.

As it turns out, Ms. S's scholarship monies exceeded the annual pool earnings of all Lamar County professional and pro-am pool players for the year. Luckily for her, the funds were paid directly to the college of her choice, so all requests for a 'bite' were able to be turned away with no hard feelings.

 

[RiverCity]

This is just from a quick search. There is a lot more ot there.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...one-fuels-both-competition-and-protectiveness

Please reread what I said. You are still using the same type of argument. You cannot take a study (testosterone's effects on competitiveness in your example) and use it to say that women are not physically capable of playing pool as well as men.

It would be no different if I were to post an article about 1000's of dogs getting rabies from bats every year. Then I use that article to try and argue that if you keep your dogs away from bats, it will never get rabies. That statement can not be true, as bats are only one of several ways that rabies is transmitted to dogs.

Do you have any studies comparing whether or not women are physically capable pool the same as men? If not, you stating something as fact based on cherry picked information is a fallacy.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Please reread what I said. You are still using the same type of argument. You cannot take a study (testosterone's effects on competitiveness in your example) and use it to say that women are not physically capable of playing pool as well as men.

What I can say is that the women don't play as well as the men. I think you will say that too.

The theory of gender inequality is backed by science and wether or not there have been specific studies that are pool related is irrelevant. It is logical to look at the studies that have been done and conclude that the biological advantage does at least play a huge role in why the men have shown to be able to reach a higher level.

Btw, you are stuck on comparing the physical advantage when the biggest advantage when it comes to pool imo is mental.

 

[AtLarge]

Jasmin has competed with men in straight pool and She placed 5th in the men's World Straight Pool Championship in 2006, which was won by Thorsten Hohmann. ...

And Jasmin was 3rd/4th in that event in 2008, behind Feijen and Bustamante..

 

[Mr. Bond]

What I can say is that the women don't play as well as the men. I think you will say that too.

The theory of gender inequality is backed by science and wether or not there have been specific studies that are pool related is irrelevant. It is logical to look at the studies that have been done and conclude that the biological advantage does at least play a huge role in why the men have shown to be able to reach a higher level.

Btw, you are stuck on comparing the physical advantage when the biggest advantage when it comes to pool imo is mental.

What you can say ( accurately) is a small sampling of women so far have not played as well as men. A small sampling has.

Yes the genders are not " equal". No surprise there. But again, the inequalities do not explicitly point to a lack of ability on a pool table. If so, please provide an example other than raging hormones. What is the biological " advantage" ?

Let me put this another way...
Is there any job on earth that requires more skill than playing pool?
Yes.
Have women done it?
Yes.
Who is the most intelligent pool player on earth?
Is there a woman more intelligent than he?
Yes.
What are some of the most strategic games on earth?
Have women won them?
Yes.

 

[PINKLADY]

....Btw, you are stuck on comparing the physical advantage when the biggest advantage when it comes to pool imo is mental.

are you calling us stupid?!?!

i'll give yáll the break advantage, depending on how meek the "female" is (and after the Jennifer Bruce announcement, i use that term loosely) - but aside from that, it's pure physics in shooting pool.

as for the financial sense of pro men's vs women's ability in pool - the stats speak for themselves.

 

[(((Satori)))]

What you can say ( accurately) is a small sampling of women so far have not played as well as men. A small sampling has.

Yes the genders are not " equal". No surprise there. But again, the inequalities do not explicitly point to a lack of ability on a pool table. If so, please provide an example other than raging hormones. What is the biological " advantage" ?

Let me put this another way...
Is there any job on earth that requires more skill than playing pool?
Yes.
Have women done it?
Yes.
Who is the most intelligent pool player on earth?
Is there a woman more intelligent than he?
Yes.
What are some of the most strategic games on earth?
Have women won them?
Yes.

A small sampling has? Not that I know of. I dont even buy that Jean Balukas played as well as the top men. No doubt that she played great and, much like Jasmine and others of today, Im sure she was able to beat a lot of men which got her the reputation of being equal, especially since she was the only woman at the time. But truth be told, I would be very surprised to know that she was equal to the top men.

As for you needing ore proof of a biological advantage otherr than hormones, I just say the hormonal advantage is enough.

As for your argument about numbers being a possible cause. I say I will give you that. It is possible that is the reason but right now I tend to believe that they are just different. When women want to compete at a higher level in sports they take male hormones and it has been said to affect not only their bodies but also their state of mind. I tend to believe this is the real reason for the difference.

 

[Ak Guy]

Mostly no

Back to pool. What do you think the female pro shooters would say? Why is it there are not men only tournaments when we have women only tournaments? I think the truth is self evident. Just the way it is.