Getting down perfectly straight on the ball?

[mindtriplx]

What do you guys think about the importance of getting down perfectly straight on the shot, meaning having your back foot, arm, and cue on the aiming line before you get down on the ball.

When I take practice strokes in the air, my cue and arm is slightly to the left of the aim line, then as I get down on the ball, my cue comes into the aim line. Is this important? Does it really matter?

Also what is your opinion about what Hohamann says in the first minute of this video. He is basically saying that you should turn your stance so your arm swings forward/straight naturally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8

Thanks!
Also who do you think gets down on the ball the best?

 

[Scott Lee]

We all start our "aiming" process standing back from the table, to get a better perspective. As you "line up" and step into the shot line, you get into your body into position and drop down into your stance. As you place your bridge hand on the table, we all do some mental and physical 'adjustments', which then allow us to confirm the shooting decisions that we made while we were still standing away from the shot. Once you confirm those decisions no changes should be made, and you go right into your 'shooting routine' (what most people refer to as their Pre Shot Routine). If you find yourself second guessing your decisions, or changing your mind, once you're down on the shot, DON'T SHOOT! Stand back up, and begin the whole process over again. IMO, the things that Hohmann says are his viewpoint, and are valid..most especially for HIM. That said, there is no "one-size-fits-all" for anything in pool...therefore there are many ways to accompish an objective.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[FranCrimi]

What do you guys think about the importance of getting down perfectly straight on the shot, meaning having your back foot, arm, and cue on the aiming line before you get down on the ball.

When I take practice strokes in the air, my cue and arm is slightly to the left of the aim line, then as I get down on the ball, my cue comes into the aim line. Is this important? Does it really matter?

Also what is your opinion about what Hohamann says in the first minute of this video. He is basically saying that you should turn your stance so your arm swings forward/straight naturally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8

Thanks!
Also who do you think gets down on the ball the best?

What Thorsten is pointing out is that most people view the shot with the center of their body while standing, so their arm is starting out outside the line of the shot. Abslutely true. This is the opposite of what you are saying (if you're right-handed) that your arm is starting out left of the line of the shot.

Although I completely agree with Thorsten on this common issue, I don't think that he gets down on the shot exactly the way he describes. If he did, he would be facing his cue stick more and he would be off-balance and even possibly off line.

Different instructors teach the approach in different ways. Some instructors teach leading with your upper body while I teach planting your feet to get your correct arm placement.

As for who gets down on the ball the best, I think that players approach the shot based on the type of person that they are. If they're the meticulous type you may see a more orchestrated, mechanical approach. If they're the athletic type you will see a different type of approach. One is not better than the other if they both get the job done.

If you want to try to copy a player, you should pick someone who's personality is similar to your own.

 

[ENGLISH!]

That said, there is no "one-size-fits-all" for anything in pool...therefore there are many ways to accompish an objective.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I am NOT an instructor, but I totally agree with Mr. Lee on THIS one.

 

[Txstang1]

Subscribing

 

[genomachino]

Dominant eye starts you out right......

What do you guys think about the importance of getting down perfectly straight on the shot, meaning having your back foot, arm, and cue on the aiming line before you get down on the ball.

When I take practice strokes in the air, my cue and arm is slightly to the left of the aim line, then as I get down on the ball, my cue comes into the aim line. Is this important? Does it really matter?

Also what is your opinion about what Hohamann says in the first minute of this video. He is basically saying that you should turn your stance so your arm swings forward/straight naturally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8

Thanks!
Also who do you think gets down on the ball the best?

Everyone is the same.

Once the dominant eye is identified for sure we need to have it in the correct position in the preshot where everything starts.

Everyones dominant eye will put them in the Perfect position if they know how to do it.

It will put your stance and stroke in the correct position almost naturally.

Sometimes a little tweaking is needed but usually not much.

And it's so simple to do once learned............

 

[Scott Lee]

I sure feel sorry for the (up to) 20% of the population who don't have a dominant eye. I guess they'll never be able to play pool well!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Everyone is the same.

Once the dominant eye is identified for sure we need to have it in the correct position in the preshot where everything starts.

Everyones dominant eye will put them in the Perfect position if they know how to do it.

It will put your stance and stroke in the correct position almost naturally.

Sometimes a little tweaking is needed but usually not much.

And it's so simple to do once learned............

 

[PGHteacher]

With all due respect. You may be a very fine instructor with papers to prove it, as well as a world beater skill wise, I don't know; and what you say may or may not be true. But as soon as you say;

Everyone is the same.

It is a sure sign (for me) that whatever follows is probably BS, sorry if that's harsh but it has become a "learned response" in my case; and I am sure I am not alone.

To the OP:

What do you guys think about the importance of getting down perfectly straight on the shot, meaning having your back foot, arm, and cue on the aiming line before you get down on the ball.

I think if you don't most people are going to be in big trouble

When I take practice strokes in the air, my cue and arm is slightly to the left of the aim line, then as I get down on the ball, my cue comes into the aim line. Is this important? Does it really matter?

I noticed you said "slightly" I would say that as long as you are stepping into the shot and not making "big" adjustments on the way down it's fine; and isn't something I would correct, lots of people step in sometimes, step back sometimes, step in from the left sometimes and step in from the right other times; that is what hinders the biggest % of the population.

Also what is your opinion about what Hohamann says in the first minute of this video.

If I didn't agree with something and Hohamann then said it; I would change my point of view, enough said.

He is basically saying that you should turn your stance so your arm swings forward/straight naturally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8

I think what Hohamann is trying to say is that whether you step into the shot or not you shouldn't be square to the table and then adjust your body on the way down.

You should be standing at the angle that you are about to step into from the outset, and that a way to find this is to grab the balance, stand square (like your not supposed to). You will see the cue go to the line it should be starting in, move your body so the stick and the balls are in the shot line and that's the angle you should start out at. And that this is a way to "find" the angle that you need to be standing at at 1st.

I think that's what he's saying not 100% sure, I will go try that; it would be consistent with what I do (hopefully; will have to check) and what I teach, just not how I show it to people. It sure makes sense to me.

Also who do you think gets down on the ball the best?

Not sure what you mean, if you mean generally among pros I don't think there is such a thing, if you mean between those 2; I would say Hohamann and he should, he is younger, more flexible, in better shape and is more agile than Massy, there is no reason he shouldn't.

 

[The Renfro]

I can tell by your response PGHTeacher that u have not worked with Geno... He has a very simple drill you can use to assist in getting down on the same line as you aimed on while standing up.... I cannot imagine how it would not be universal... He in no way means we all see the same he means we all have to get down the same or we have to realign after we are down....

I won't spill the beans on the drill... Geno can either post it or anyone can call him for a phone lesson and get it right from the horse's mouth =)

 

[Ratta]

Thanks god every human is individual-
And because of that there is not *one fits for all*- like Scott wrote it already in his response. As usual i agree with Scott on his point of view.

But what Fran wrote, is very important:
"Different instructors teach the approach in different ways. Some instructors teach leading with your upper body while I teach planting your feet to get your correct arm placement"

This is something i prefer also to do- To use your back-feet as a starting point to slide down into your shot, from standinb above and from standing behind the cueball- and having your backfoot in YOUR PERFECT position on the baseline, which finally works for you!(some say striking line). To describe the whole process here in a few words is anyway hard. Too many aspects you have to take care of. The goal must be to find the perfect relationship between the important parts of your body. Some say Arm-Eye-Brain computer. A very nice description-but there are a more parts of your body, that need to be in the position, which works for YOU. And here an instructor or another qualified person is very helpful.

I like Geno a lot-- but there s much more than *just to know where to put the dominant eye*. Til now i have had just 2 students, which had trouble with finding their vision center. The most students had trouble with ligning up correctly, and had more trouble with *positioning the body* around the cue, so that they were able to deliver the cue on a straight line.
It sounds sometimes easier than it is how to stand perfectly and how to deliver your cue properly- if you have a student, who has burned in bad issues/habits over years, you have to detect the habits/issues first- and then it takes usually a longer time to correct those. And this can be a very painful and hard time, grin.

So all in all i agree here with Fran and Scott-- there is no *one fits all*. It s much more complicated than it sounds. Good instructors can help you with these things. To start to correct yourself is usually a dead-end-street. In my opinion almost undoable.
The hardest problem is to FIND WHERE YOUR problem is. The rest is just table time and the willing to work on it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

What do you guys think about the importance of getting down perfectly straight on the shot, meaning having your back foot, arm, and cue on the aiming line before you get down on the ball.

When I take practice strokes in the air, my cue and arm is slightly to the left of the aim line, then as I get down on the ball, my cue comes into the aim line. Is this important? Does it really matter?

Also what is your opinion about what Hohamann says in the first minute of this video. He is basically saying that you should turn your stance so your arm swings forward/straight naturally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPn3Wzp4NT8

Thanks!
Also who do you think gets down on the ball the best?

Try pitching a coin underhand along the line of a straight in shot....notice how your head, eyes and body are aligned to this "Line"......wouldn't it be nice to play pool like this? There's a way to do it and when I learned it (I was standing 45*) my game went to a high level and stayed there....my balance was firmer, my eyes were naturally aligned, my right hip was behind the line and my left foot was exactly parallel to the line....there's many ways to do it, and this one is used by many of the "best of the best".

 

[Okie]

The most students had trouble with ligning up correctly, and had more trouble with *positioning the body* around the cue, so that they were able to deliver the cue on a straight line.
It sounds sometimes easier than it is how to stand perfectly and how to deliver your cue properly- if you have a student, who has burned in bad issues/habits over years, you have to detect the habits/issues first- and then it takes usually a longer time to correct those. And this can be a very painful and hard time, grin.

This paragraph made me curious. Please don't be offended by my question as I ask it only to learn more about how to proceed...no disrespect intended.

In golf we teach fundamentals and the learning of those fundamentals tends to weed out bad habits. When a natural correction does not occur, we make a correction after the student has established good fundamentals.

Are you saying this is not true for pool?

Try pitching a coin underhand along the line of a straight in shot....notice how your head, eyes and body are aligned to this "Line"......wouldn't it be nice to play pool like this? There's a way to do it and when I learned it (I was standing 45*) my game went to a high level and stayed there....my balance was firmer, my eyes were naturally aligned, my right hip was behind the line and my left foot was exactly parallel to the line....there's many ways to do it, and this one is used by many of the "best of the best".

The pitching a coin underhand is an excellent tool to help us understand the importance of proper positioning!

Thanks to both of you for your contributions!!

Ken

 

[Scott Lee]

Ken...I think Ingo means the same thing you do. We try to help our students find their best natural body position, and then add in the other variables of the shooting template...right stance (for them), right bridge length (for them), right grip position (based on bridge length), the right finish position (for them), right PEP (for them), and their own personal timing. It's more about helping the student discover what their best process is...and then showing them how to practice it effectively, until they can do it without thinking.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

This paragraph made me curious. Please don't be offended by my question as I ask it only to learn more about how to proceed...no disrespect intended.

In golf we teach fundamentals and the learning of those fundamentals tends to weed out bad habits. When a natural correction does not occur, we make a correction after the student has established good fundamentals.

Are you saying this is not true for pool?



The pitching a coin underhand is an excellent tool to help us understand the importance of proper positioning!

Thanks to both of you for your contributions!!

Ken

 

[Okie]

Ken...I think Ingo means the same thing you do. We try to help our students find their best natural body position, and then add in the other variables of the shooting template...right stance (for them), right bridge length (for them), right grip position (based on bridge length), the right finish position (for them), right PEP (for them), and their own personal timing. It's more about helping the student discover what their best process is...and then showing them how to practice it effectively, until they can do it without thinking.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

That makes sense. Thanks Scott!

Ken

 

[Ratta]

Hi Ken,

hope oyu re doing good -and no, of course i m not offended. Grats for your last tournament^^

And thanks Scott for your explaining- that s what i meant- and i read it over and over again- not able to find the *text* where i was so terrible unclear ^^

 

[Okie]

Hi Ken,

hope oyu re doing good -and no, of course i m not offended. Grats for your last tournament^^

And thanks Scott for your explaining- that s what i meant- and i read it over and over again- not able to find the *text* where i was so terrible unclear ^^

Thanks! Still miles to go!

I am not sure you were terrible unclear. Here is the line I was asking about:

"if you have a student, who has burned in bad issues/habits over years, you have to detect the habits/issues first-"

It was more just a curiosity for me.

Hope all is well,

Ken

 

[mindtriplx]

Thanks everyone for their input. I really appreciate it, as this was something I was always curious about.

 

[Okie]

Thanks everyone for their input. I really appreciate it, as this was something I was always curious about.

Good thread mindtriplx! Thanks!

 

[Ratta]

Thanks! Still miles to go!

I am not sure you were terrible unclear. Here is the line I was asking about:

"if you have a student, who has burned in bad issues/habits over years, you have to detect the habits/issues first-"

It was more just a curiosity for me.

Hope all is well,

Ken

The order how to correct the issues/habits-- that s what sometimes is the first you have to plan. And without detecting really the habits/issues....then it would be a dead-end-street

hope all is wel for you, too
lg
Ingo

 

[FranCrimi]

I sure feel sorry for the (up to) 20% of the population who don't have a dominant eye. I guess they'll never be able to play pool well!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott, I can't find anywhere where it says that up to 20 percent of the population don't have dominant eyes. All of my research shows that everyone does have a dominant eye and if they didn't, they would probably have double vision.

Where did you find that info? I'd like to read it.