Getting kicked

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
My question goes out to anyone who has been playing 14.1 a while and your skill level here is not relevent. I have never had a skid or as the English say a kick when applying outside spin to cue ball with medium stroke - never. I have however seen many kicks when employing a soft hit with inside spin especially. Just trying to find logic in what ended my 351 ball run, the conditions were not real humid either. Any players out there that have a genuine answer - I will listen. I lost the footage of the skid but it was a bad one, I employed left hand spin on cue ball and the object ball twisted left. It would have been the 352 ball potted and I did feel like I had been kicked hard when I saw the object ball twist.
 

zencues.com

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where on the table did the skid happen? Skids usually happen on either side of the rack and also where players usually break from, so, this is where there is more chalk left on the table and it gets "picked up" by an object ball on it's last movement there, and also because most shots with a lot of inside are played in those areas.

Skids actually happen with outside english too... it just that the skid is MUCH less than with inside and is usually not noticed.
 
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john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've never seen a skid with outside. I see them all the time with no english, inside, follow and draw, at least at one of the rooms I play at because the equipment is not maintained. I rarely go to that room anymore, even though it's much closer than my favorite room, because it doesn't even feel like playing pool anymore. Every shot is a mystery. If you have a soft shot with follow, the cueball is liable to stick to the OB and literally climb up the OB and take a little hop, sending both balls off line.

But even there, I can't say I've ever seen a skid (or at least not a noticeable one) using just outside (i.e. stop shot speed/draw combined with outside), although the balls will throw quite a bit more than you might expect.
 

Saturated Fats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clean balls

This brings to mind the Corey Deuel video of a 14.1 run from a few years ago where he cleans the balls repeatedly once he has a few racks and presumably wants to protect what he's invested so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67d_MYqcwnM

Until this video, I'd never seen anyone so interested in keeping the balls clean.
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Until this video, I'd never seen anyone so interested in keeping the balls clean.
Watch a random snooker match in a world championship that has reached quarter final, semi final or the finals. They have CB cleaned every two shots sometimes.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't answer Danny's question about inside vs outside causing skids but I keep a paper towel at the bottom of one corner pocket and one side pocket. After each rack I clean whichever balls are in those pockets. Doesn't take long and I figure by the law of averages I'm reducing my chances of chalk on the balls causing a skid. I stop to clean off the cue ball with a dry paper towel after each break shot to keep chalk off it.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My question goes out to anyone who has been playing 14.1 a while and your skill level here is not relevent. I have never had a skid or as the English say a kick when applying outside spin to cue ball with medium stroke - never. I have however seen many kicks when employing a soft hit with inside spin especially. Just trying to find logic in what ended my 351 ball run, the conditions were not real humid either. Any players out there that have a genuine answer - I will listen. I lost the footage of the skid but it was a bad one, I employed left hand spin on cue ball and the object ball twisted left. It would have been the 352 ball potted and I did feel like I had been kicked hard when I saw the object ball twist.
It is possible to have a kick with outside if the cut is small and you are using a lot of outside. What matters is which direction the surface of the cue ball is rubbing on the object ball. With just the right amount of outside the cue ball rolls across the object ball without any rubbing and there is no chance of a kick.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Ok

Looks as if there is a timer on how long I am able to post, I guess I will have to learn the copy or paste. It says I am logged in but my post has to be redone after 10 or fifteen min. Bogus. So this is a tester to see if they'll let me post - kinda annoying.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Ok

Thanks for the possible answers, I have played in the most humid environments in this country (new Orleans with the doors open air - in the summer) still have never seen anything like what happened. I was placing my cue (with tip facing in rack area repeatedly) and that is exact same spot I got kicked). I now place tip away from rack area, its just the law of physics did not work and I would have rather just missed the ball. For the record it was one tip of spin and a half ball hit that did the trick to me. Thanks again for positive responses, I am actually thankful that the footage was lost.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the possible answers, I have played in the most humid environments in this country (new Orleans with the doors open air - in the summer) still have never seen anything like what happened. I was placing my cue (with tip facing in rack area repeatedly) and that is exact same spot I got kicked). I now place tip away from rack area, its just the law of physics did not work and I would have rather just missed the ball. For the record it was one tip of spin and a half ball hit that did the trick to me. Thanks again for positive responses, I am actually thankful that the footage was lost.

Actually if I ran 351 and missed #352 I think I would rather it be something like a skid/kick rather than a mistake on my part. It's kind of like you ran 351 "unfinished" rather than 351 and a mistake. That means you have what it takes to go even higher provided maybe you clean the equipment every 100 balls or so.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
It is possible to have a kick with outside if the cut is small and you are using a lot of outside. What matters is which direction the surface of the cue ball is rubbing on the object ball. With just the right amount of outside the cue ball rolls across the object ball without any rubbing and there is no chance of a kick.

I'm with Bob on this one. I've occasionally "overturned" (as we say in German - the result is a thinner than expected or, done that twice or so in my life, thinner than seemed physically possible or practicable on a backwards cut) a ball with outside English presumably because there was chalk on the cue ball.

The second part Bob mentions is what I call "roll-off" English (again, in Swiss German), the exact amount where the cue ball rolls across the face of the object ball without transferring any friction (or as he calls it, rubbing). I partly attribute one of my most significant tournament wins to my ability to recognize, watching my opponent in the final struggle with the worst imaginable humid and static conditions and not adjust, that I'd need to gauge the amount of outside English for each angle and speed of shot in this manner for the remainder of a match I was trailing that moment - making position play (the game was 8-Ball) extra-tough on myself as a result, going to multiple rail positions where one or none would usually have done etc. But I just knew conditions, with heavy rain outside, bleachers full of spectators, and that most affable of referees (hello there, you'll know whom I'm referring to when you read this!) who kept rubbing the cue ball with his gloves, would only get worse - and they did. My opponent eventually "missed" an unexpected total of three balls in that match of which I (I had the best seat in the house) am convinced to this day he really wouldn't have missed a single one had it not been for skids/kicks due to humidity and dirt (literally what went through my mind at the table: "Look at all that dirt").

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Actually if I ran 351 and missed #352 I think I would rather it be something like a skid/kick rather than a mistake on my part. It's kind of like you ran 351 "unfinished" rather than 351 and a mistake. That means you have what it takes to go even higher provided maybe you clean the equipment every 100 balls or so.

That's how I see it. Unless you clean the balls often, there's always a chance of that weird kick/skid. I've had it happen at the worst time, always on a soft shot that I think I'm just gonna cinch up. It's hard to keep in mind everytime that there's a kick/skid waiting to happen on this soft shots at just the right spot/angle, and a little outside usually prevents it by rolling the CB off the OB.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
That's how I see it. Unless you clean the balls often, there's always a chance of that weird kick/skid. I've had it happen at the worst time, always on a soft shot that I think I'm just gonna cinch up. It's hard to keep in mind everytime that there's a kick/skid waiting to happen on this soft shots at just the right spot/angle, and a little outside usually prevents it by rolling the CB off the OB.

One way or another, every run is going to end. We Straight Pool players, in particular the better one gets, tend to forget details about our runs and obsess over the one we remember, how the run ended. I'm not convinced the "how" matters. How we played before it ended, how we felt about it and ourselves, is what matters. The end is only part of the whole, a comparatively short, negligible part.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Looks as if there is a timer on how long I am able to post, I guess I will have to learn the copy or paste. It says I am logged in but my post has to be redone after 10 or fifteen min. Bogus. So this is a tester to see if they'll let me post - kinda annoying.

Danny, this may be your solution --

When you log in to AzB, it asks for your User Name and your Password. But there is another box to the right of those two that says "Remember Me?" If you click the box for Remember Me, you will remain logged in until you logout, i.e., you won't get kicked out after some short period of time.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
One way or another, every run is going to end. We Straight Pool players, in particular the better one gets, tend to forget details about our runs and obsess over the one we remember, how the run ended. I'm not convinced the "how" matters. How we played before it ended, how we felt about it and ourselves, is what matters. The end is only part of the whole, a comparatively short, negligible part.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

That's how it works.....the great shots, genius shots, occur so naturally that they simply become part of the overall pattern play. A spectator/railbird might remember a specific shot and tell others about it later on, but the only shots the player remembers distinctly are the ones that end a run or lose a game, or the ones that turn the table over to incoming players.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Thanks at large

Roger that, I will give it a try at large - not a tech savvy dude. As for the horrific kick on a routine 13 ball I don't think it would have happened had the room been insulated and me not placing my cue where it was. As we all are aware - mother nature is a truly powerful force. If I ever have access to a practice table again and record my runs - I now have a better understanding how to try and prevent the kick'. I will also say that I do not put as much stock in cleaning pool balls during a run as I used to. What y'all said bout rather to receive skid than miss the ball - made me think (sometimes that is painful - but not usually when it's pool related). :) after reading these suggestions I agree that its more important to focus and or remember what allowed me to get lost in the land of smooth stroke than to figure out why a object ball has to skid. I am not superstitious but I don't think the # 13 is my favorite number.
 
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acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Roger that, I will give it a try at large - not a tech savvy dude. As for the horrific kick on a routine 13 ball I don't think it would have happened had the room been insulated and me not placing my cue where it was. As we all are aware - mother nature is a truly powerful force. If I ever have access to a practice table again and record my runs - I now have a better understanding how to try and prevent the kick'. I will also say that I do not put as much stock in cleaning pool balls during a run as I used to. What y'all said bout rather to receive skid than miss the ball - made me think (sometimes that is painful - but not usually when it's pool related). :) after reading these suggestions I agree that its more important to focus and or remember what allowed me to get lost in the land of smooth stroke than to figure out why a object ball has to skid. I am not superstitious but I don't think the # 13 is my favorite number.

LOL! I know at least one pool player in our neck of the woods everyone knows is guaranteed to get sharked if one puts the 13 in the apex of an 8-Ball break, or on the foot spot on a Straight Pool spot shot etc., and who'll tell everyone about it, too! ;)

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
New Chalk on Market. Taom. It takes "bad contacts" or "kicks" away from game. Ideal for 14.1. I got one for testing couple months ago and not a single bad contact after that(bought one after test chalk ran out..).
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
New Chalk on Market. Taom. It takes "bad contacts" or "kicks" away from game. Ideal for 14.1. I got one for testing couple months ago and not a single bad contact after that(bought one after test chalk ran out..).

Now this sounds intriguing! The humidity here this time of year is such that one would really have to clean the cue ball every rack… :(

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Where on the table did the skid happen? Skids usually happen on either side of the rack and also where players usually break from, so, this is where there is more chalk left on the table and it gets "picked up" by an object ball on it's last movement there, and also because most shots with a lot of inside are played in those areas.

Skids actually happen with outside english too... it just that the skid is MUCH less than with inside and is usually not noticed.
Thanks for input as I am always willing to learn about how Mother nature effects Pocket Billiards. The Brutal skid occurred near the rack - where I kept laying the tip of my cue while re-racking. It was only one tip of helping english and a half ball hit on the dreaded thirteen ball. Oh well it's over now - but it did stop me in my tracks. I have learned to not lay the tip of my cue near the main traffic (rack area) after the 13 ball I will employ a dehumidifier near the rack area - if I start practicing and recording any future runs. Also thank you to any and all who purchased the 351, that and the 280 are the result of many hrs at the table.
 
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