Getting money back into the sport - What is currently being done?

[SWN99]

I haven't seen or heard of any even in Ohio for some time, I remember there used to be one at Toledo , Glass city open but thats been a few years at least. Probably the closest would be the Derby city these days. Pool needs a couple big sponsors and a single governing body and lastly everyones support from fans / players & manufacturers.

 

[sjm]

To ask why there aren't more investors in pro pool is to miss the boat, for when the demand for the pro pool product is there, the investors will follow.
The question, therefore, is why the demand for the pro pool product isn't there. From my observation, there are two major reasons:

1) Pro pool has gone to the logical extremes to distance itself from the amateurs by playing games that are unrecognizable to casual players.


In a recent thread, I compared pool to snooker.

Snooker is so easy to watch and follow. Red-color, red-color until the reds are gone and then shoot them in numerical order. That's how you play it in your local room and if you watch pros live or on TV that's the way it is played, and always on a twelve foot table. Event producers and promoters have succeeded by always giving casual onlookers a game they know and can easily follow and by making the pros classy and presentable in competition.

In rotation pool games, today it's 9ball, tomorrow it's 10-ball. Today it's call shot, tomorrow it isn't. The day after tomorrow you must call the money ball only, and the day after that you must call your safes, too. Some days, you must break from the box, others not. Some days it is winner breaks, other days it is alternate break. Some days the breaker racks his own, other days it's the opponent doing the racking. Some days, a jump cue is allowed, but other days it isn't. The size of the table is variable from tourney to tourney. Some days there is a shot clock and some days there isn't. Some days there is a dress code and some days there isn't. Players are, on the whole, poor sports, complaining to their opponents, to referees, to event promoters, and even to the fans. Event producers and promoters have always been far more committed to giving the pros the game they want rather than making the game intelligible, recognizable and presentable to the casual onlooker.


Most amateurs could care less about the pro game or about the pro players. The future of our game is in the hands of the amateurs and the instructors. People like Mark Wilson, Fran Crimi, Randy Goettlicher, Scott Lee and Jerry Briesath may be doing more than the pro playing community to get amateurs excited about pro pool in America.

2) Pool has no desire to shed its image as a subculture in which predatory types prey on the unsuspecting to scrounge a few extra dollars.

This absolutely ensures that no high profile investor can ever get involved in the sport. Many years ago, I was with a large bank and knew one of the guys responsible for determining which sports the bank would fund and attach its name to. I asked whether they might ever consider pro pool and was told that they feared tarnishing the bank's image by association with a sport perceived as consisting of predatory people.

Pool, somewhat comically, claims to want to be like golf or tennis, but pro golfers and pro tennis players behave properly, dress elegantly, and tend carefully to the image of their sport. Pro players have practically nothing in common with pro golfers and pro tennis players.

Conclusion

It is within pool that the demand for the pro game must emanate and we all have a part in making it happen. Wondering why others aren't doing more for us is not productive. We must make our game better and more marketable. We can make parents, amateurs and investors look favorably on pool if we are successful.

 

[Banks]

Most amateurs could care less about the pro game or about the pro players.

That's not necessarily true. There's no real pro scene to care about. Root for that one guy, who brings in $10k a year in tournament winnings, when they may or may not show up for one of the handful of small-paying tournaments that may or may not happen year to year?

Now, if you told APA players that they could make decent money by playing in the XYZ league, you'd have people climbing over each other to play.

Advertising has always been a big source of cash. How do you do that, though? Ask each individual bar? Have each location source advertising? Imagine rolling up the bars, tables, league and marketing into one convenient package.

One step at a time..

 

[Mike Davis]

CJ, can you elaborate at all on what is in the works?

 

[macguy]

CJ, can you elaborate at all on what is in the works?

You are kidding right.

 

[Don Owen]

If there were more companies like yours the world would be a better place

Mike,
Thanks for the nice words about OB.
Don

 

[DJ14.1]

I think the proliferation of smart phones and the information age has really hurt the game in terms of generating interest and growth from the younger people. Poolrooms used to be places not only to play, but to just hangout and kill time. Nowadays when the kiddies kill hours playing games on their phones, thery're not becoming interested in pool (or anything else for that matter). That's part of the battle we're fighting.

What pool has going for it is it's intrigue. When we make crazy shots, the average onlooker gazes at the table like we've just used black magic. Poker has similar intrigue with it's luck and glorified gambling element.

For pool to be successful on TV, it has to be hit from a different angle and capture some of that intrigue. Perhaps we can use technology in some way to make watching it more captivating to the non-player? Hockey tried that with the blue streak to help follow the puck. It didn't work, but it's a good analogy to my thinking. Everyone knows pool didn't get the ratings on TV. But maybe some things could be done to change that?

Say for instance the object ball path and the cueball deflection path could be shown on TV real-time while a player was taking his practice strokes by using sensors in the equipment or some other means? It would drive the real players nuts watching it on TV, but the non-player might find it very interesting and be less likely to turn the channel.

Say the pros were forced to explain via mic what they were trying to do on a few shots before they hit them?

Not necessarily saying to use these ideas, but there needs to be a way to unlock the black magic part of pool so the casual viewer would be able to easily learn....and be entertained.

 

[JCIN]

What I've always found disconcerting is the little input of sponsor money from WITHIN the sport. Everyone speaks of attracting sponsors & how this or that keeps corporate sponsorship dollars away, what about the pool industry, PoolDawg, Seyberts, Ozone and the plethora of billiard supply warehouses and all of the companies whose supplies they sell? There is some but it's limited with the companies that do it seems they want to be the sole sponsor of whatever it is they're selling.

For instance Mezz sponsors a small tour as does OB. But you never see something with Mezz & OB sponsoring together. I get it that they want to promote their products & would prefer not to sponsor something together with a rival maker but large exposure is better than just regional exposure & if they really believe in their products then just out it out there & let the players decide, you shouldn't care that you're co sponsoring with a rival if the exposure is great enough. It's the mega supply warehouses that irk me. They sell phenomenal amounts of equipment from a myriad of manufacturers to the league & bar crowd & give little back. Pool is small, dying, if it dies then how much will any of them sell of their products? They should have enough business acumen to calculate what 100% of 0 is. Hell I'd like to know how many millions are made just in the sale of freaking LD shafts alone to those that can't figure out deflection.

We need a national tour with solid sponsorship and TV. Perhaps all of these companies should consider that if this occurred and exposure of this grows the game then it stands to reason their business grows also. We need a consortium of these businesses, all of them pooling the resources geared towards the common goal of 1 large nationwide tour, not a dozen small regional ones. To stop infighting in their own interest.

Case in point, Diamond. Brunswick abandoned the industry, Diamond stepped in but petty crap dilutes it. Aramith balls were always the standard but they make Centennial balls for Brunswick so Diamond goes with Cyclop now in their events shoving balls nobody wants down our throats because of Aramiths relation to Brunswick. All of these companies and I mean all of them need to put aside their rival differences and form a consortium to sponsor 1 big tour, a real one. Is someone going to tell me that if you took every, table, cloth, chalk, production cues, LD shafts, cases manufacturer & combined them together with all of the billiard supply warehouses that sell all of this stuff & combined their resources together towards 1 common goal that they couldn't afford it? Really? Again it doesn't take long to calculate what 100% of 0 is, which is what they have if this sport dies.

You have Cyclop balls because they put money into the game. You think Diamond just decided to abandon Arimath because of some relation to Brunswick? Cyclop gave them a better deal.

Cyclop is an example of a new player coming into the industry and putting their money up to do it. This is a very good thing.

Also the sport is not dying. Pool in the U.S. is certainly in decline but its not going anywhere. Pro pool is dying. Big difference.

You ask why is pro pool dying? Because no one wants to pay for it. Sponsors don't want to pay for it because not enough people watch it. Consumers don't want to pay for it. Promoters dont want to pay for it because see above.

 

[cleary]

My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

We're dressing in bowties. It's helping a lot.

 

[JCIN]

Alot is always being said about improving pool / fixing pool / bringing more exposure etc. etc. Simply put, the lack of money in the sport is embarrassing. World class players having to play for each others entry fee money with a few pennies added is a terrible shame, but seemingly too easily accepted these days.

Getting money back into pool we know is about getting it back on real TV, getting the demand back to make that happen, generating sponsorship with sizable dollars, etc.

My question is, is anything currently being done to make this happen? If so, what is being done, and who are the people doing it? Or, hate to even ask, but has the industry just waved the white flag and surrendered on this?

From a financial standpoint, modern pool is almost like a failing business plan. My intent isn't to start another "How the heck do we fix it" thread, but rather a "What is being done" thread. Who is plugged into the current scene well enough to know? Is there even a plan?

There are always people working on things. The smart ones don't tell anyone.

Right now we are in the midst of a reality show gold rush. I know of four shows either in development or production. The NYC based one will be the first to actually hit the air. I suspect it may be the only one to actually see the light of day.

The industry has no unified structure of any kind. It also suffers from an even worse problem...that being absolutely no leaders at all. No one who can bring people together and get them to go in one direction for the betterment of all. This means any talk of "Lets all pull together" is not going to happen.

The one upside of the current situation is that when things are this screwed up it can present an opportunity for smart motivated people with some resources to come in and change things. I'm not holding my breath but its possible.

 

[JCIN]

We're dressing in bowties. It's helping a lot.

I know you have a dress code jihad but I do believe their is something to be said for pro events not looking like a pick up basketball game. If I could do some TAR events over I would have a dress code with parameters of "Dress somewhere between like you are going to court or the club"

Pro events I think someone should be able to look at it and say "That guy looks well dressed". That could be a button up shirt and nice jeans or a suit whatever the player is comfortable in. I would make it a hanging offense for any player to be on camera in a polo or golf shirt of any kind. Just looks like a pool game broke out at Best Buy.

Amateur events who gives a shit? Giant kitten shirts and velvet sweat pants for everyone.

 

[Colonel]

You have Cyclop balls because they put money into the game. You think Diamond just decided to abandon Arimath because of some relation to Brunswick? Cyclop gave them a better deal.

.

Actually Mark Griffen of CSI stated in a post here on AZB that the relationship between Aramith & Brunswick IS the reason why their tournaments with Diamond tables will now have Cyclop Balls exclusively as Brunswick is a competitor and that Aramith makes Centennials for them. I don't know where you got your info of why the change occurred but I have posted where I received mine.

 

[Colonel]

We're dressing in bowties. It's helping a lot.

Don't forget those dress shoes now.

 

[d_day]

While I would love to see things get better, I'm not sure that what you're thinking is very likely.

There is money in our sport, but it's not as much as most ardent pool players think. Also, the money that is in the sport is really in the amateur and participation side. There's just not much of an audience for televised pool. Don't get me wrong, I sure wish there was. But it's just not there.

So, if you want to grow Pro Pool, you must create an audience. Without an audience, you'll not have much support from any industry. Including the pool industry. Most of the companies like ours do spend money in promoting the sport, but it's limited as to what we can spend given that it often doesn't create much of a return. Certainly, if you want any large industry to be interested in pool, you'll have to create that audience first. Thinking that "if we just get it on TV and the audience will come in droves" just isn't going to work. It's been tried and the ratings were too low for it to continue. It's tough to get pool players to watch pool, much less non pool players.

You mentioned Poker. I can assure you that there are many big industry companies that are searching high and low for the next "Poker". I can also assure you that all of them are aware of pool, and they don't see pool as being the next big thing. Without something drastic changing, like finding an audience, it's going to be tough to get them interested.

I do believe that there is an answer though. It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it's been proven to work and would work with pool. That answer is to grow the one thing in pool that does work, organized amateur pool. Yes, that does mean leagues, but not just leagues. It can be any kind of organized competition. From local weekly tournaments to local area series or tours. Like the Omega here in Dallas or the Lone Star Tour in Houston.

We just need lots more people who love to play for the fun of it, some good friendly competition, and even some financial competition. But the majority of the opportunity for growth is in those who want to play for recreation. That's were the $ comes from. People spending money on table time at their local rooms. People buying cues and all the related accessories. Anyone who only wants to play for free, drink water, and not feel like they need to support their local pool rooms should not be surprised when they go out of business.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

This is by far the best response I have seen. The only thing that can "save" pool is to get more people interested in pool. Want ESPN to cover pool? Get more people to watch. Want more pool rooms in your area? Get more people to play.

 

[JCIN]

Actually Mark Griffen of CSI stated in a post here on AZB that the relationship between Aramith & Brunswick IS the reason why their tournaments with Diamond tables will now have Cyclop Balls exclusively as Brunswick is a competitor and that Aramith makes Centennials for them. I don't know where you got your info of why the change occurred but I have posted where I received mine.

I'll tell em.

 

[cleary]

I know you have a dress code jihad but I do believe their is something to be said for pro events not looking like a pick up basketball game. If I could do some TAR events over I would have a dress code with parameters of "Dress somewhere between like you are going to court or the club"

Pro events I think someone should be able to look at it and say "That guy looks well dressed". That could be a button up shirt and nice jeans or a suit whatever the player is comfortable in. I would make it a hanging offense for any player to be on camera in a polo or golf shirt of any kind. Just looks like a pool game broke out at Best Buy.

Dress shirt or suit looks like a pool game broke out at court. Anyone who says they're comfortable and able to play their best in a button up (that actually fits) and dress shoes is a liar. Golf is a clean look and doesn't exactly look like pickup basketball. Of course people should look presentable on a professional level but they should look misplaced either.

 

[9andout]

Dress shirt or suit looks like a pool game broke out at court. Anyone who says they're comfortable and able to play their best in a button up (that actually fits) and dress shoes is a liar. Golf is a clean look and doesn't exactly look like pickup basketball. Of course people should look presentable on a professional level but they should look misplaced either.

Not saying pros should but, those guys did play pretty sporty in tuxedos way back when. Haha

 

[AtLarge]

Actually Mark Griffen of CSI stated in a post here on AZB that the relationship between Aramith & Brunswick IS the reason why their tournaments with Diamond tables will now have Cyclop Balls exclusively as Brunswick is a competitor and that Aramith makes Centennials for them. I don't know where you got your info of why the change occurred but I have posted where I received mine.

Are you sure he said that? I remember Mark Griffin saying that Diamond would not ever use Brunswick Centennials. But I don't remember a statement that Diamond would never use any Aramith balls because Saluc also makes the Centennials. After all, Diamond did use Aramith balls for many years.

 

[JCIN]

Dress shirt or suit looks like a pool game broke out at court. Anyone who says they're comfortable and able to play their best in a button up (that actually fits) and dress shoes is a liar. Golf is a clean look and doesn't exactly look like pickup basketball. Of course people should look presentable on a professional level but they should look misplaced either.

Just imagine what Ronnie O'Sullivan could do if he was allowed to wear a golf shirt and some Nike's. Might actually be able to play a little.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I know you have a dress code jihad but I do believe their is something to be said for pro events not looking like a pick up basketball game. If I could do some TAR events over I would have a dress code with parameters of "Dress somewhere between like you are going to court or the club"

Pro events I think someone should be able to look at it and say "That guy looks well dressed". That could be a button up shirt and nice jeans or a suit whatever the player is comfortable in. I would make it a hanging offense for any player to be on camera in a polo or golf shirt of any kind. Just looks like a pool game broke out at Best Buy.

Amateur events who gives a shit? Giant kitten shirts and velvet sweat pants for everyone.

I pretty much agree with this. If you promote a pro event then you can set the rules. Especially in a situation like Tar where a lot of the time Justin put up the money paid out. Plus I do think that pro pool could use a professional look.

However, I am totally against a dress code at nationals of an amatuer event though. For one reason its because the dress code sucks. It is made by men who dont understand style of today. And the other reason is because... even if there is some dude from a bar who might not dress "classy" enough for your amatuer event. Thats the same dude that put money in your pocket all year and now you are going to tell him he cant play in nationals unless he dresses the part? That just aint right to me. Besides, its an amatuer event in Vegas no one cares if the people look like they come from a hole in the wall bar. If the casino lets them in, thats good enough imo.