Getting shape do you have to shoot hard to get it

PoolFan101

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello ,

I am trying to pass on the knowledge of the game, very little I know lol in Pool to my 3 Son’s. They are all becoming decent players and shots so to speak. But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them
It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. They believe that shooting harder will get them to it but they often mis the shot by shooting to hard or overshooting the cue ball. What is your best method for getting shape on the next shot. I try to play at least 2-4 balls ahead. Thanks for any input
 

gregnice37

Bar Banger, Cue Collector
Silver Member
I'd say on occasion you have to shoot a shot harder to get good shape on the next ball. Doesn't mean it has to be often but in some cases it's a must.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello ,

I am trying to pass on the knowledge of the game, very little I know lol in Pool to my 3 Son’s. They are all becoming decent players and shots so to speak. But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them
It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. They believe that shooting harder will get them to it but they often mis the shot by shooting to hard or overshooting the cue ball. What is your best method for getting shape on the next shot. I try to play at least 2-4 balls ahead. Thanks for any input
The harder you shoot any shot, the tighter the pocket gets. Trying to leave the correct positioning angles to minimize the need to have to hit it hard to get the correct position on the next ball is always preferable. This is even more critical on today’s tight pocket big tables. Obviously some shots will require a more powerful stroke with accuracy in order to get position, so it is necessary to be able to do both with accuracy to play strong pool. Speed control is such an important aspect of very good pool, so developing a soft touch is absolutely crucial, which you are not likely to acquire by banging the balls around.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. ...
If you want to get from a particular object ball that you are going to pocket to a particular place for position, the speed required depends on the exact details of the shot. It might be very, very soft or as hard as you can hit the ball. Here are two shots. If you play shape on the 2 ball, softly is required. If you play shape on the 3 ball, you have to hit it quite a bit harder.

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CropperCapture[137].jpg

You have to match the speed to how far you want to take the cue ball. It also depends on how much energy is going into the object ball due to the fullness of hit.

There are lots of free online information sources. Try this: https://billiards.colostate.edu/ -- months of reading there, so just pick out the basic parts.
 

9ball5032

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
1. Align yourself correctly
2. Speed control
3. Stay at or near center cue ball
4. Have an idea where the cue ball is going to end up
4. Stay on right side of ball
5. Play 3 balls ahead
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hello ,

I am trying to pass on the knowledge of the game, very little I know lol in Pool to my 3 Son’s. They are all becoming decent players and shots so to speak. But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them
It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. They believe that shooting harder will get them to it but they often mis the shot by shooting to hard or overshooting the cue ball. What is your best method for getting shape on the next shot. I try to play at least 2-4 balls ahead. Thanks for any input


Others have said it and you will read it a lot more. It is mostly about angles when you are in the middle of a run. With good planning you rarely have to play a hard shot with difficult shape to the next ball. I always try to play a pattern that doesn't demand multiple difficult shots in a cluster. If shape on the next ball is going to be a little tricky, I want the shot to pocket this ball to be easy.

Hard to find better advice than Little Joe Villalpando's DVD's to be found at PoolIQ.net For every time he tells someone to shoot a little harder, he tells them to shoot softer four or five times.

Some of the other instructors on here are fond of saying everyone shoots too hard. Mostly they are right. One thing to help get your sons to shoot softer, have them shorten their bridge. A four to eight inch bridge will get the job done most of the time and there is less of a tendency to hit harder than needed when there isn't a long backswing. Gentle back swing, start forward slowly and accelerate into the cue ball. Nutting to it!

Hu
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do your sons compete with each other?

I’d try this. Setup a shot requiring position to the next ball. Perhaps something with a thinner hit so that soft speed is required. Agree on the ideal position for the next shot. Put a dime on the table at that spot.

Let them alternate shooting the shot. Offer up $10-20 to the first one that can get within a hand span of the dime five times. That’ll incentivize them to at least realize that shot should be hit softer. Do that with them once in a while and it should start to click.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I'd rather drill a shot 100 miles an hour to have the CB drift 6" to side, then hit it firm with english and play multiple rails in hope of reaching the same position. I'm probably the strongest "hard" accurate shooter in my hall. I get away with it becuase I have very strong mechanics.

I see value in this so I wouldn't necessarily discourage them. That said, I will also play with additional english rather than hit balls harder. Bob's second illustration is a great example. I would not play the straight up shape as drawn. I would spin into the long rail below the side pocket and let the running english carry the CB up table. Few advantages to doing this shot in that manner.

The best advice I can give is to show them rather than tell them. Next time they scream one into the rail, take the opportunity to set it back up and show them how you'd hit it. Of course this only works if you make the ball...lol
 

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd say on occasion you have to shoot a shot harder to get good shape on the next ball. Doesn't mean it has to be often but in some cases it's a must.

This.

It can sometimes be less risk using rails to come back through centre table to get position. There is a bigger ‘zone‘. Watch the top snooker pros do this.

Too many variables to get into but one is adapting to the table. I like to use rails on a less familiar ‘fast’ table as easier than trying to hold the cue ball.

Hitting hard is just one more option in the tool box.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello ,

I am trying to pass on the knowledge of the game, very little I know lol in Pool to my 3 Son’s. They are all becoming decent players and shots so to speak. But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them
It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. They believe that shooting harder will get them to it but they often mis the shot by shooting to hard or overshooting the cue ball. What is your best method for getting shape on the next shot. I try to play at least 2-4 balls ahead. Thanks for any input

Position depends on the shot. There are so many shots in pool on so much variances in equipment that it takes years to get the touch down. The best method is playing for years and likely getting lessons. Asking about a "best method for getting shape" is like asking the best method to build a battleship. I mean you can say "get a lot of metal and a welder" but that is only the tiniest portion of the whole thing.
 

NathanDetroit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay, I'm guessing you and the boys don't do drills together. If you start doing some cut shots and try landing the cue ball on a pad, the kids will probably want you to stop.

Put a dollar on the table, then say the first one to finish the shot on the dollar gets it. But no more than two rails. Teach the shot (once you have it down).
 

couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Teach them how to play position using the
vertical axis of the cueball. Take the chalk away.
How ever hard they intend to hit it, half that
speed.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The key is to spend a lot of time hitting balls and learn how to move the cue ball.
 

Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
When somebody has an opinion, there is a reason why they have that opinion.

Let that sink in and cut pieces of cardboard slightly bigger than the skylight holes. Then stuff the cut pieces into the interior side.

Hello ,

I am trying to pass on the knowledge of the game, very little I know lol in Pool to my 3 Son’s. They are all becoming decent players and shots so to speak. But they seem to believe that they have to shoot hard in order to get shape on the next shot. I tell them
It is in the wrist and English is what helps you move to your next spot. They believe that shooting harder will get them to it but they often mis the shot by shooting to hard or overshooting the cue ball. What is your best method for getting shape on the next shot. I try to play at least 2-4 balls ahead. Thanks for any input
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shooting Hard Too Much Reveals You Are A Shot Maker Rather Than A Great Pool Player

I betcha that not more than 10-15% of the shots I play, and likely it is even lower, are played using a harder versus softer stroke speed.
If you discover yourself playing more relying on a hard stroke, then one of two things, if not both, are taking place that limit your potential.

Your shape/position control is not very good because if it was, you wouldn’t be stroking the cue ball so hard & great players don’t have to. Or
else your shot selection is really suspect and you do not know how, or don’t take the time, to map the table layout for making the best runout.

Shooting hard is necessary in your overall repertoire but don’t make it any essential part of it. A great player doesn’t rely on making hard shots.
The truth is a genuinely great player relies on making easier shots because they control the cue ball & minimize cue ball travel around the table.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I find it much easier to move the cue ball around by accurately hitting the cue ball with top spin, draw, or side spin and a solid stroke than shooting hard and being sloppy about cue ball contact points. I mean who in their early days of their pool journey hasnt thought "Im going to draw this cue ball 2 table lengths" then wound up and swung as hard as they could to shoot the perfect stop shot instead of a draw shot??? When I learned how to accurately hit the cue ball where I wanted I started over drawing the cue ball by feet even on soft shots. Its about how well you strike the cue ball not about how hard you strike the cue ball. Same with breaking. You see a lot of players buy break cues that "hit a ton" then go to break as hard as they can only to see the cue ball glance off the head ball but some guy breaking at half his speed gets a far better break because he hits the rack square.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hitting balls/racks hard isn't necessary to play well.

I knew a guy (forget his name now) that played on tour for awhile back in the late 80s, and he usually would use a pretty soft break, and still usually pocket 2-3 balls. He told me it was all about solid mechanics and technique over just speed. All I know is he was the most consistent breaker I'd ever played against. I could probably count on one hand the number of times he broke dry over the 10 or so years we played together.

As for shooting, my best control comes with medium-fast speed down to medium-slow. Solid stroke mechanics give me the precision, and spin that I need while maintaining complete control over the shot. Hitting really hard just makes the shot harder.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Might as well venture a response.
For any given layout/object ball, you will have at least the number of pockets available to choose your cue ball path. Of those paths, you have cue ball options of going forward or coming backward with left, right, or no spin. You can also stop the cue ball. You can cover all the aforementioned options at any strike speed.

Which options you choose is part of what shot sequence you decide on. These are most often determined with practicality (meaning greatest likelihood of success) being the prime directive.

So "how hard" is a function of what you need to do tempered by what you can do and therein lies the rub. This most fundamental of pool procedures is also the most time consuming and difficult basic to master.
 

Bic D

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tell them to watch Efren play. Efren hits the balls so soft (for the most part) but is able to get position on his next shot.

Another player that comes to mind is Nick Varner. Hell, just find a match of these two playing each other and that should show them that you don't have to bang them...for the most part.

Some people are audio learners while others are visual learners
 
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