Ghost Ball Systems...

Zims Rack said:
What other systems out there have you used for the "Ghost Ball"?
I just found a couple of creative ideas,
www.thespideronline.com
www.ez-shot-ghost-ball.com
I have found the ultimate TRUE ghost ball aim trainer. It hasn't been released yet, but trust me...it's a real ghost ball trainer! More info to come...

Zim


I might take a hit on this one from the uninitiated, but Hal Houle's aiming methods are the best one's out there, hands down. And I ain't gettin' into any pissin' contests about it either. Nuff said, and no other responses.
 
Having Hal as a friend and spending time with him at a table may cloud my opinion, but I totally agree with you... :)

Troy
drivermaker said:
I might take a hit on this one from the uninitiated, but Hal Houle's aiming methods are the best one's out there, hands down. And I ain't gettin' into any pissin' contests about it either. Nuff said, and no other responses.
 
drivermaker said:
Hal Houle's aiming methods are the best one's out there, hands down. .

D'maker,
His methods may be good, but certainly are not widely available to the average, everyday pool fanatic. I've e-mailed him several times at 2 different addresses (obtained from a post he made on another forum) and never received any response (not a criticism, as who has time to respond to every internet nut case that sends an e-mail?). I am aware that he is older, and even does interact by phone. As a student of the game I would love to hear about the system. Where can I find out about this system??

Having said all that, I know of one top instructor that claims even a beginning player can usually aim as well as a pro after a short time of playing - he thinks that most misses are from errors in the alignment and stroke, rather than from difficulty in aiming (I however occasionally find that I feel a little uncomfortable with aiming, and I inevitably miss those shots).
 
Zims Rack said:
What other systems out there have you used for the "Ghost Ball"?
I just found a couple of creative ideas,
www.thespideronline.com
www.ez-shot-ghost-ball.com
I have found the ultimate TRUE ghost ball aim trainer. It hasn't been released yet, but trust me...it's a real ghost ball trainer! More info to come...

Zim
Zim's Rack, Joe Tucker has a new Aim Trainer system that will hit the market very soon. It is manufactured by ARAMITH. It's called "Aiming by the Numbers". Pretty good concept, with new ways to apply the knowledge to the table.
 
Williebetmore said:
I know of one top instructor that claims even a beginning player can usually aim as well as a pro after a short time of playing - he thinks that most misses are from errors in the alignment and stroke, rather than from difficulty in aiming.

Willie, that's how I see it, too.

Aiming, understood narrowly to mean identifying the exact point on the object ball that must be hit for a successful shot and sighting to that point, is, in my opinion, very simple. I think the typical C player knows where the object ball must be hit on virtually all shots.

Proper alignment with respect to the aim and the delivery of the intended stroke are challenges for a pool lifetime.

It has always puzzled me that some players whom I have enormous respect for find aiming systems to be so valuable. Having said that, though, I'm looking to learn something here.

Would somebody who is a great proponent of aiming systems explain to me how the use of one or more aiming systems has influenced your game?
 
sjm said:
Would somebody who is a great proponent of aiming systems explain to me how the use of one or more aiming systems has influenced your game?

SJM,
I can't wait to hear the reply from IMMSHARMA. Thank you so much for soliciting his input.
 
Proper alignment with respect to the aim and the delivery of the intended stroke are challenges for a pool lifetime.
Yup.
People equate missing to bad aiming more often than necessary imo.
Fact is a straight smooth stroke is what really separates the bad players from the good players. Not the aiming part.
 
ceebee said:
Zim's Rack, Joe Tucker has a new Aim Trainer system that will hit the market very soon. It is manufactured by ARAMITH. It's called "Aiming by the Numbers". Pretty good concept, with new ways to apply the knowledge to the table.
I'm sure Joe's training aid will be a good one; however, this new aid that I'm talking about will shock everyone who believes in the ghost ball trainer. How many ghost ball trainers truely do have a ghost ball? This will just blow your mind. Only a few people have seen this in it's prototype stage. More info to come! Ohh, ceebee-- I'll be ordering a Deluxe BreakRak II in a couple of weeks!
Thanks,
Zim
 
sjm said:
Willie, that's how I see it, too.

Aiming, understood narrowly to mean identifying the exact point on the object ball that must be hit for a successful shot and sighting to that point, is, in my opinion, very simple. I think the typical C player knows where the object ball must be hit on virtually all shots.

I totally agree with this statement and think even the majority of lesser players can clearly see where the object ball must be struck to be pocketed, the problem begins when one of two thing happen. Either they don't which part of the cue ball to aim at that spot or they do know but their perception of this cue ball contact point is slightly off (as was the case for me, before I invented this matching contact point method).

Proper alignment with respect to the aim and the delivery of the intended stroke are challenges for a pool lifetime.

Very true, I'm still struggling with this. But there are some very good stroke teachers out there, not to many aiming instructors though.I believe this is because it very difficult for one player to pass on their vision (mental and physical) of a shot to another.

It has always puzzled me that some players whom I have enormous respect for find aiming systems to be so valuable.

The most valuable thing to me about my system is that I now have the exact answer of what has to happen to successfully pocket every shot (it's not just a feel thing anymore, where some days I felt it or saw it and some days I didn't). I shot 80% of my pool playing career by feel and was pretty good (100 ball runs, Cashed in some Camel Pro events and won some open events) not bragging on that just want you to understand where I was at prior to inventing this system. Now I practice and play a lot less but knowing the answers ahead of time and telling my brain what to do rather than asking it to find the answer for me subconsciously, has increased my confidence and consistency. I'm one of the few players that has been on both sides, gone from total feel and intuition, to aiming EVERY SINGLE SHOT consciously, contact point to contact point.

Having said that, though, I'm looking to learn something here.
Would somebody who is a great proponent of aiming systems explain to me how the use of one or more aiming systems has influenced your game?

I use to hit certain backward cuts (left to right and right to left) too full, all the time. Now I wasn't an idiot, I knew where the object ball had to be struck. Why couldn't I hit it? Answer, My subconscious refused to pick out the right contact point on the cue ball. It still doesn't agree with my conscious thoughts. I aim the shot mathematically correct (matching contact points) and it feels Horrible! But I've retrained myself to believe it's correct and I stay straight and stick to my guns and it feels great (when they go in). The old way was "Okay Joe you always hit this too full, Aim thinner (but how much thinner? No not that much, oh that's too full) and even when I made them after all that mental aggravation, it felt like luck because I guessed how much thinner and it was more of a relief rather than a proper execution. By the way I once missed one of these shots to be guaranteed $1,800 and to remain undefeated in a pro event. I almost banked the dam thing cross corner! But that experience is one of the main causes for me finding this system.

My method is kind of simple yet appears complicated to some. Especially the some that want instant success or a majic pill. Mine takes a little time to digest, mainly because it asks the player to consciously do something that most of us have been doing subconsciously for years. Thinking about and picking out the contact point on the FRONT of the cue ball that is suppose to strike the object balls contact point.
It's the easiest way I have found for one player to pass on their aiming knowledge to another (at the table, with balls, not on a computor forum). I do believe players that have been playing for years by feel will have a very tough time starting to THINK about aiming. It would take a very open minded and patient person to do so. But I do think it's going to be great for new players coming into the game and instructors wanting to teach others how to aim, I've already had great success with some low level players improving faster than ever because they understand how every shot should be aimed and if they miss they know why and how to correct it, which is a little better than years of uncharted trial and error and guessing.
It truely is amazing how our brain subconsciously picks out and sends that little tiny contact point on the front of the cue ball (that we can't even see while in the shooting position) and sends it at another tiny spot that our eyes our focused on. Aiming systems are not for everyone but like I said before. I've been on both sides and I like knowing the answers much better than hoping I was going to have an on day.

Now I just need that perfect position system, Robotic arm, Olympic mindset and I'll be halfway home.

Joe T blabbin away.
 
Joe T said:
Mine takes a little time to digest, mainly because it asks the player to consciously do something that most of us have been doing subconsciously for years. Thinking about and picking out the contact point on the FRONT of the cue ball that is suppose to strike the object balls contact point. It's the easiest way I have found for one player to pass on their aiming knowledge to another (at the table, with balls, not on a computor forum). I do believe players that have been playing for years by feel will have a very tough time starting to THINK about aiming. .

Thanks, Joe, it has been an education.
 
There's an A+(some think he's a pro) Philipino player in my pool hall who uses an aiming system.He told me that ALL SHOTS are either 1/4 ball, 1/2 or 3/4 ball with the exception of real fine cuts. He said that as soon as he sees the sharpness of the angle he automatically knows whether it is 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 hit.This only applys to center ball hits mid, high and low.Sidings of course changes things.

To prove a point he had me cover up the pocket with my arms and body, so he couldn't see the pocket. He then shot....I lifted my body....and voila!!! the ball went in every single time.He told me not to tell anyone else in the pool hall his secret and that he told me only because he sees me practising so much.

I could be wrong, however, I think his methods are somewhat related to Hal Houle's teachings.
 
recoveryjones said:
He told me that ALL SHOTS are either 1/4 ball, 1/2 or 3/4 ball with the exception of real fine cuts. He said that as soon as he sees the sharpness of the angle he automatically knows whether it is 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 hit.This only applys to center ball hits mid, high and low.Sidings of course changes things.

RJ, nice to see you posting again.

This is really counterintuitive. Obviously, every fraction of hit is at least theoretically possible, 2/5, 3/5, 7/10, etc. The implication of your claim is that if the hit is rounded to the nearest quarter, the shot will be made. Hence, if a shot appears to require a 2/5 hit, then a half ball hit would be selected, and would be accurate enough to pocket the ball. This is very believable if the object ball isn't too far the intended pocket, but hard to believe if it's far away from the intended pocket.

I'm not saying this system is in error, just that it's surprising. Guess I'll have to try it and see for myself.
 
I've been lucky enough to take lessons from Tony Annigoni who knows Hal Houles aiming technique which is you just aim at the contact point in direct line with the pocket .. The main part of this aiming system is proper alignment which makes sense.Same in golf in order the hit the fairway you have to be aligned properly...
 
recoveryjones said:
There's an A+(some think he's a pro) Philipino player in my pool hall who uses an aiming system.He told me that ALL SHOTS are either 1/4 ball, 1/2 or 3/4 ball with the exception of real fine cuts. He said that as soon as he sees the sharpness of the angle he automatically knows whether it is 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 hit.This only applys to center ball hits mid, high and low.Sidings of course changes things.

To prove a point he had me cover up the pocket with my arms and body, so he couldn't see the pocket. He then shot....I lifted my body....and voila!!! the ball went in every single time.He told me not to tell anyone else in the pool hall his secret and that he told me only because he sees me practising so much.

I could be wrong, however, I think his methods are somewhat related to Hal Houle's teachings.

There's 90 different angles to each of the corner pockets. I use the long rails to represent zero degrees and the end rails to represent 90 degrees. I use numbered contact points 0-9 on both the OB and CB that match or coincide with 10 degree aiming lines out of each pocket. Where the object ball lies on the table tells you what number contact points to match up.
Example 1. Any ball laying along the long rail ( frozen or close to)will have a contact point of zero because I want it to travel down the zero degree line and no matter where the cue ball is or what angle you have, you must strike the object balls contact point of zero with the matching zero of the cue ball (the point on the cue ball that is pointing directly to the end rail of the intended pocket, zero degrees)

Example 2. Any ball laying along the end rail has a contact point of 9 because you want it to travel along the 90 degree line. Once again whether you're straight in, have a 20,30 or 80 degree angle. The part of the cue ball that must be aimed at the object balls contact point is the part of the cue ball that is currently pointing to the long rail of the intended pocket. Thats aiming 9-9.

Example 3. A spot shot with the cue ball laying anywhere (within reason, makeable) This position on the table represents a 45 degree angle out of the pocket, so both contact points on my numbered balls would be 4.5 to 4.5.

This is the best I can explain it in words. But if you want to see it just cut out some 2 1/4 inch paper discs and number them like this across the front half of each 9876543210123456789 then lay them on the table so the two 9's point out to the two side rails and the the zero of each ball points to opposite end rails
What it does is narrow the game down to 10 major shots or contact points that come up over and over. The aiming lines are just used to identify the number of the shot which will help you identify the part of your cue ball that you'll be aiming at the object balls contact point. After a little training of learning the aiming lines (with the help of pocket cheat sheets) you'll be able to call out the number of the shot, say 6 and then be able to vividly pick out your cue balls contact point of 6 and send it at the matching 6 on the object ball.
The product is endorsed by Mike Massey, it comes with two Aiming balls, 2 cardboard flat discs (like the paper ones I discribed) credit card size cheat sheets that teach you the aiming lines and a 60 page instructional booklet. It's called Aiming by the Numbers and the only place I know of on the web to order it is at Muellers website. If any of you do end up getting it, do me one favor and read the instructions completely, especially the golden rule chapter and learn the system slowly, one shot at a time. It's gonna be different for you experienced players but will save you beginners years of frustration.

Using this repetitive method will drastically improve your perception of these very small contact points and of the curves of both balls.

Anyways to comment on the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 shots. Many players say things like this and then back it up by firing them in. It's what I call a reference system. This shot is a 1/2 ball hit, then their subconscious takes over and adjust a little fuller or a little thinner. These systems can work and the more the player believes it does, the better it works. But simple math tells us if there are 90 different angles, there must be 90 different aim or contact points.
 
recoveryjones said:
I could be wrong, however, I think his methods are somewhat related to Hal Houle's teachings.


You could be wrong, but you're not. There are also some other things to know about tip offset and pivoting for backhand english, but that's up to Hal to teach, not me. That's not the only method, Hal has about 19 more. The guys a genius and light years ahead of anyone else on this subject.
 
I have asked many, many professional players if they use aiming systems, and I have yet to find one that does. Most of them play by feel. Personally I feel that using these complicated aiming systems just clogs your mind with thoughts that can screw you up.
 
Joe T said:
There's 90 different angles to each of the corner pockets. I use the long rails to represent zero degrees and the end rails to represent 90 degrees. I use numbered contact points 0-9 on both the OB and CB that match or coincide with 10 degree aiming lines out of each pocket. Where the object ball lies on the table tells you what number contact points to match up.
But simple math tells us if there are 90 different angles, there must be 90 different aim or contact points.


HOLY MACKERAL, ANDY!! You've gone from simple and intuitive in your life to a robot with laser vision having the ability to immediately size up the proper angle (protractor included) with a corresponding molecular mark on two balls, one of which could be 9 feet away. I'm not bad mouthing your system, I'm a sucker for most anything and could see myself looking into your methods. But, how do you account for the use of english and deflection? Are you then adjusting from an 8 to a 2 to compensate for CB movement? And if that's the case, this mathmatical formula could be mind numbing, or so it seems.
 
Sounds good Joe T! Similar concept to what I'm talking about, but not the same. I'm not going to go into detail about the Ghost Ball system I'm talking about, but will post more info when it's available.
Drivermaker- if you like the concept of Joe's system, wait until you hear what Timothy White has created! Simply amazing!
Thanks,
Zim
 
drivermaker said:
You could be wrong, but you're not. There are also some other things to know about tip offset and pivoting for backhand english, but that's up to Hal to teach, not me. That's not the only method, Hal has about 19 more. The guys a genius and light years ahead of anyone else on this subject.

You might be right, now if Hal would just reply to that email I sent him a month ago. Some errors are due to stroke, but I see lots of errors in myself due to 'mental errors', also. I do not know if I use the 'ghost ball' or not. If i do, it is subconcious.

But I would still like to talk to hal, to see what methods he would recommend.

Laura
 
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