Gilbert vs. Varney

[Irish634]

If you would like testimony of how well my j/b's work then feel free to pm forum members Quitecoolguy, FlyingSnail, Tonov12, Irish634, Bnall, Dave Fingers, No Illusions, River City, Worried Beef, Torqiet, Chenz, GA Dawg, Hierovision...just to name a few off the top of my head. Ask them their true feelings about how the Varney j/b performs.

Yes, please do feel free to PM me about my Varney J/B. My review can be be found here. I have never played with a Gilbert, but like many others have said before me, Mr. Gilbert is one of the premier cue makers around. There is also a transaction review of how my deal with Kevin went in the "Buyer/Seller" sticky of the Wanted/For Sale section. If my review doesn't answer your questions about my Varney, please do contact me. I'll even talk to you on the phone about it if you want. Just PM me.

I am even going to have Kevin build me a custom player later in the year. He makes a helluva cue and is very professional to deal with. For the person that got no reply after sending Kevin a PM, I am sure it was not an intentional "no reply." It's probably in cyber space or something. Also, I am sure Kevin gets lots of PM's so his mail box may have been full.

Anyway, whichever you choose, I am sure you will make the right choice for you. Certain cues may or may not work for every individual, but I will attest to the Varneys any day of the week.

Good luck in your choices.
Craig

<Edit: Damn I have to learn to spell LOL>

 

[Varney Cues]

While we are discussing the quality I would like to know the cost of each product. I have never seen the cost comparison of either builders j/b cues. Several weeks ago I asked Mr Varney for the price of a j/b and never received a reply. This is no knock on Kevin at all, the PM could have been deleted accidentally or just got lost in the wondeful world of cyberspace.
Dan

PM sent sir.

 

[manwon]

Manwon,

I've never played with a Gilbert or a Varney, however, just because one person has been building cues longer doesn't automatically grant them the award for most skillful. Sometimes the best talents are the unheard of talents. You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't try and fog the other viewers minds that one cuemaker is better because of time in business.

My neighbor has been a machinist mfgr medical supplies and parts for 30 years. He's never built a cue before, but when he does Im sure his experience will guide him into making a wonderful cue.

My point is, Mr. Varney could have previous experience in the machining industry and is applying his knowledge into cuemaking...this certainly gives him an advantage over any other average joe. Now, Im not saying Andy isn't a great cuemaker, he is. Im saying that you shouldn't judge Kevin because of his time in service.

Regards,

Phillip

Hello Phillip, and thanks for your opinion, that is what this forum is all about expression. Phillip, as I stated in every post I have made there no disrespect meant to Mr. Varney. However, I will say it again my problem is with the person that started this thread Varney verses Gilbert.

To compare these two individuals is a clear sign that the individual has no experience in this area, and while flattered, I am certain that even Mr. Varney understands this himself.

By the way, you said above: Now, I'm not saying Andy isn't a great cue-maker, he is. I'm saying that you shouldn't judge Kevin because of his time in service.

I said: First of all, I am not judging anyone. I am however, making statements based on the products produced by these individuals. Kevin's products are simple, and in no way can compare with the techniques and designs in involved in the production of one of Andy's cues. While time in service has a great deal to do with this, to do it at this at this time is unfair to Mr. Varney, because if you place his best work side by side with Mr. Gilberts, it is like comparing a Flintlock to a Machine Gun. However, only time will tell and vindicate our beliefs

Have a nice day

 

[Varney Cues]

Kevin's products are simple -
if you place his best work side by side with Mr. Gilberts, it is like comparing a Flintlock to a Machine Gun.

Enough is enough Craig. You are bordering on slander here. Do you own one of my cues? Ever held one? Ever hit a ball with one? By your comments...I highly doubt it. My cues "hit" & play every bit as good as Gilberts, some may feel even better. Why don't you ask DaytonaJoe...he & I are not friends and have never met. He got to test drive one of my cues at the Windy City Open...and wrote a review in the Gallery. Ask WorriedBeef...he owns the cue now. Or ask Tonov12, he just received his new one recently. Let me make it clear...my cues are made for players & meant to be played with. I turned down $1000 on WorriedBeef's cue because it was a collector not a player. I could care less about fancy inlays, propellers, or bar bells...that does not make a cue play/hit better. Sure it makes it worth more, but thats unimportant to a lot of players. Basically ask anyone who owns a Varney. Let me ask you how many Varney's do you see for sale used? Pretty much zero. People who own my cues don't sell them. I think that is the greatest testiment to my cue quality. I'm old school and could care less about fancy inlays & building high dollar collector cues. Rest assured you won't see any Varney full of inlays in the future either. Its my choice to make clean, understated, player style cues. Thats what I like...thats what I build. I just last night turned down an order for a cue because he wanted lots of silver inlays. I just will not deviate from my style. I prefer to let the natural beauty of exotic woods add all of the eye appeal to my cues. This choice does not make them inferior to a Gilbert...I assure you.
I use the finest woods & finest parts available and my craftmanship is top notch. This you can tell when you hold a new Varney cue in your hands and play with it. Hope I've cleared this up for you.
Have a great Sunday evening & enjoy the game.

 

[daytonajoe]

I have seen Kevin's work and I will say that I was impressed. I also had a chance to try out his cue and was also impressed.

No his name is not as famous(possibly yet) as a Gilbert, but I feel comfortable with what I have seen,knowing that if and when I order my Varney,it will not be of flinlock design, or workmanship. But, of a quality that I would expect. He may not be into fancy inlays and designs, but his cues are of a type that I enjoy and admire!!

Joe

 

[manwon]

Enough is enough Craig. You are bordering on slander here. Do you own one of my cues? Ever held one? Ever hit a ball with one? By your comments...I highly doubt it. My cues "hit" & play every bit as good as Gilberts, some may feel even better. Why don't you ask DaytonaJoe...he & I are not friends and have never met. He got to test drive one of my cues at the Windy City Open...and wrote a review in the Gallery. Ask WorriedBeef...he owns the cue now. Or ask Tonov12, he just received his new one recently. Let me make it clear...my cues are made for players & meant to be played with. I turned down $1000 on WorriedBeef's cue because it was a collector not a player. I could care less about fancy inlays, propellers, or bar bells...that does not make a cue play/hit better. Sure it makes it worth more, but thats unimportant to a lot of players. Basically ask anyone who owns a Varney. Let me ask you how many Varney's do you see for sale used? Pretty much zero. People who own my cues don't sell them. I think that is the greatest testiment to my cue quality. I'm old school and could care less about fancy inlays & building high dollar collector cues. Rest assured you won't see any Varney full of inlays in the future either. Its my choice to make clean, understated, player style cues. Thats what I like...thats what I build. I just last night turned down an order for a cue because he wanted lots of silver inlays. I just will not deviate from my style. I prefer to let the natural beauty of exotic woods add all of the eye appeal to my cues. This choice does not make them inferior to a Gilbert...I assure you.
I use the finest woods & finest parts available and my craftmanship is top notch. This you can tell when you hold a new Varney cue in your hands and play with it. Hope I've cleared this up for you.
Have a great Sunday evening & enjoy the game.

Kevin, again I will say I mean no dis-respect for your abilities, but slander that is a little outlandish. Kevin you abilities as a cue maker are not in question here.

Kevin you said the following:
Why don't you ask DaytonaJoe...he & I are not friends and have never met. He got to test drive one of my cues at the Windy City Open...and wrote a review in the Gallery. Ask WorriedBeef...he owns the cue now. Or ask Tonov12, he just received his new one recently. Let me make it clear...my cues are made for players & meant to be played with.

Kevin, we both know hit is a very subjective subject, however, even the hit of your cues is not in question.

Kevin you said the following:
Let me ask you how many Varney's do you see for sale used? Pretty much zero.

To this Kevin I can only say, look how many cues you have made in comparison to how many cue's Andy has made, I think that is enough said on that subject.

Kevin said the following:
Its my choice to make clean, understated, player style cues. Thats what I like...thats what I build. I just last night turned down an order for a cue because he wanted lots of silver inlays. I just will not deviate from my style. I prefer to let the natural beauty of exotic woods add all of the eye appeal to my cues. This choice does not make them inferior to a Gilbert...I assure you.
I use the finest woods & finest parts available and my craftsmanship is top notch. This you can tell when you hold a new Varney cue in your hands and play with it.

Kevin, for you your choices work well, because you are true to your convictions, and this I respect. However, I still do not agree that you are at this point on the same level as Mr. Gilbert. This is not something you can just say and make it so. You have to pay your dues, and this takes time. Your also have to contribute to and be held in esteem by the entire cue making community to be elevated to that stature, which for now has not happened.
Kevin, this is my opinion and we can agree to disagree, again I mean no disrespect, and I am not knocking your abilities, but equal to Andy Gilbert you are not, and I still believe whether you admit it or not you also understand this yourself.

Have a nice day, I hope your Super Bowel Team kicks butt!!!!!!!!!

 

[ridewiththewind]

I do not think it's right to compare the two, for completely different reasons.

Andy does a completely different 'style' of cue (and does it very well) than Kevin does. Yes, Andy has been doing it longer, but his cues have always had a different direction...increasingly fancier inlay cues that play well...some of the newer stuff is definitely collector caliber.

Kevin is crazy passionate about his cues....that much should be evident. He is ever striving to build the best darn playing cue he possibly can, with the best quality parts he can. I also think his styling is more along the lines of Richard Harris...minus the inlays...(great playing cues!) Minimalist comes to mind. And yes, he gets some very nice wood to work with as well. But then again, I do not think Andy's cues should be compared to Richard Harris' either...for the same reasons.

I know that all cuemakers strive to make cues that play well, but then there are others that strive to make players. I would say that Andy is the fore, and Kevin is the latter.

Lisa...trying to type with one eye swollen closed cuz' of a spider bite.

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

Varney j/b vs. Gilbert j/b

Hi all,

I own both a Varney and Gilbert j/b cue. Gilbert's cue jumps when there is a good distance between the balls, but when balls are 1 inch apart, it is very difficult to jump. Varney's j/b cue on the other hand, will jump balls one inch apart and it breaks excellently! The whole purpose of a good j/b cue is that it must jump and break well, not just one or the other (and I'm not talking about how it plays, just jumping and breaking). A good j/b cue also depends on the weight of the cue, the taper of the shaft, tip & ferrulle, and an individual's technique of jumping.

FLYINGSNAIL

 

[breaktime2]

Can't wait to get my Varney and participate in this discussion. Don't have a Gilbert though so I won't be able to offer a comparison.

 

[buddha162]

However, I still do not agree that you are at this point on the same level as Mr. Gilbert. This is not something you can just say and make it so. You have to pay your dues, and this takes time. Your also have to contribute to and be held in esteem by the entire cue making community to be elevated to that stature, which for now has not happened.

What you said just makes too much sense around here to fly, so don't hold your breath. A cuemaker needs to pay his dues to be considered an elite builder?!? That's just crazy talk Manwon...

-Roger

 

[buddha162]

In all fairness, the original poster was asking about jump/break cues only.

But in the context of Gilbert vs. Varney in general...here's the bottom line: Andy can and have built the kind of cues KV is building now, whereas Varney is years away from doing the kind of work Andy is doing now. Kevin might have no wish to elevate his cuemaking repertoire and be perfectly happy with his current build level...in which case he shouldn't be too upset when someone points out the obvious: he is not a comparable cuemaker to someone like Andy Gilbert.

-Roger

 

[RiverCity]

What you said just makes too much sense around here to fly, so don't hold your breath. A cuemaker needs to pay his dues to be considered an elite builder?!? That's just crazy talk Manwon...

-Roger

An ELITE builder......... maybe this is where the problem starts. In my mind there are very few people who deserve to have this title..... and all of them have been building cues since at least the 70s to early 80s.
And to go one step further..... those guys deserve the title ELITE because their cues are always at the top of most peoples list of "great playing" cues. And for how ever much you want to spend, they will make it as pretty.
Cues are tools, meant to do a job. But a bunch of folks have created this high end collectors market, and every Tom Dick and Harry who had too much time and money to spare came running to try and become a cuemaker. And then the folks who started the whole cue collecting culture like to sit around and talk and argue and bicker about their "art cues", like they were friggin Picassos. They even tend to have the snooty artsy attitude. Give me a friggin break. As Ive said before, if there is someone standing there with their wallet open, there will be someone there with something to sell.
If you want cue art fine, have cue art. But quit calling one guy better than the other because based on your opinion of "art" or other intangible, unmeasurable aspects such as TALENT or CAPABILITY.
Kevin Varney has made some jackass statements on here in the past, I think he will own up to that, but it doesnt mean certain people have a right to follow him around and voice your "opinions" when you have nothing to base them on concerning what Varney is CAPABLE of or not.
Get over yourselves. Theres 3 cents for ya.
Chuck

 

[MattRDavis]

If you want cue art fine, have cue art. But quit calling one guy better than the other because based on your opinion of "art" or other intangible, unmeasurable aspects such as TALENT or CAPABILITY.

Absolutely perfect.

This thread started as an honest attempt by one member to ascertain which cue was "better":

In your opinion, which is the better jump break cue, Gilbert or the Varney? I've been hearing a lot about the Varney cues and how well they play lately. For those people who got the opportunity to try both cues which one would you recommend if you can only buy one cue?

Since "better" is such a subjective word, the question can't really be answered satisfactorily without further clarification from the original poster. I believe Mr. Varney's original response was about as close to an acceptable answer as possible. But I'll try:

I've never broke with a Gilbert or a Varney. When I was looking for a break cue 2-3 months back I sifted through hundreds of threads on breaking, break cues, and break cue makers; I had no budget and no motivations other than getting the best cue I could. In those threads, Mr. Varney's name was positively mentioned with enough frequency that I eventually contacted him and placed my order. This doesn't prove that his break cues are "better", only that there were enough satisfied customer's out there to convince me, personally, that I was making a good choice.

Hope that helps.

 

[zeeder]

First off, let me say that I've owned cues from both Andy and Kevin although I've not yet had the opportunity to try one of Kevin's J/B cues. Like many people have said here Andy's J/Bs are very good players and would certainly do you right if you wanted an all-in-one cue and will jump just fine if you have good form. That being said, I purchased my Gilbert J/B with two shafts, one for playing and one for breaking and jumping that way I could use it as either an all-in-one or a dedicated j/b. With the phenolic tip on the Gilbert I can't imagine that any j/b would perform THAT much better but I can't say definitively one way or the other with regards to KV's J/B.

As far as the playability goes I think both cues play very well although I would give the nod to my Gilbert J/B as the better player. As far as their relative cuemaking abilities I can't really comment on that either as I've only had one of Kevin's conversions. I do think that Andy's point work could use some improving but I'm pretty anal when it comes to even points and gluelines in the veneers.

Finally, as someone who has sold both some Gilberts and a Varney I would have to say that the resale value of Gilberts far exceeds that of Varneys at this point in time. I had a pretty difficult time selling the Varney that I had and ended up taking a pretty decent size hit on it even though it was as near 100% as a chalked cue can get.

I just thought I'd throw in my $.02 since I've owned a cue from both makers. I hope this post helps shed some light.

 

[No Illusions]

Maybe I can help. I've owned a Gilbert j/b and while it was a nicely designed cue and played well, it did NOT jump or break like my Varney. Not even comparable. The Varney jumps and breaks better than anything you can buy, I honestly believe this as I've tried lots of cues before. The Gilbert had a problem in that the metal rings where popping up and breaking the clear coat which looked horrible and hurt my resale. I own several Varney cues and have no problems at all with any of them. Mr. Varney makes an absolute top quality cue, thats easy to see when you own one. As far as how his playing cues hit, I quit using a $2000 Nova (and sold it) after playing with a Varney for the first time. I've since bought a few more and will buy more Varney's in the future for sure. My Varney's play so much better than my old Nova that its incredible. I kick myself for playing with the Nova as long as I did. Since changing, my game has picked up several speeds and I attribute this to the cue. I feel I can pocket balls easier with extreme english and do more with the cueball. In a recent tournament I missed one ball and beat a pro 9-0. A dream come true to have that kind of confidence in my game now. Thank you Kevin.

 

[zeeder]

Since changing, my game has picked up several speeds and I attribute this to the cue. I feel I can pocket balls easier with extreme english and do more with the cueball. In a recent tournament I missed one ball and beat a pro 9-0. A dream come true to have that kind of confidence in my game now. Thank you Kevin.

Hell, if I'd have known that the cue would enable me to go from a B player to a Pro level player I'd have kept the KV...lol.

Zack <~~ Always seems to make the wrong decisions and tends to exaggerate his speed. Can you say D player?!

 

[buddha162]

Hell, if I'd have known that the cue would enable me to go from a B player to a Pro level player I'd have kept the KV...lol

No Zack, that only happens when you switch to a Varney from a Nova cue...

-Roger

 

[worriedbeef]

just want to chime in here... tbh i feel no matter how much manwon stresses he means no offence in his putting down of Kevin's cues in comparison to gilbert's, what he was saying is still inherently rude and a bit irrelevant as well. but if as some people are saying that it's in the area of fancy inlays and bells and whistles that varney can't compete, then why is it even relevant? the original question was which was the better break/jump cue.

i do think some of the "kevin is a great cuemaker, but even he would agree he's not in the same boat as such and such" comments are a little patronising and uncalled for. although i will say again in fairness manwon was for the most part trying to be polite in expressing his opinion which does count for something.

and i just want to say Kevin's cues are amazing - as i expected mine took a little bit to adjust to because of the slightly fatter shaft as i was aware of beforehand. but it plays like a dream. daytonajoe was right when he said about it liking to be hit firm. when you put a bit of oomph into a shot the thing practically screams, it feels great. and it looks impeccable. there is not a single flaw with it. i think there can be a bit of a snobbish attitude in cue making, as indeed there is in many other collectables or whatever. but at the end of the day you can only build a cue so good, after that our minds imagine things to justify the name or the cost. I've been careful to evaluate my opinion since I've had my two Varney's - am i kidding myself into thinking they play so good because of the money i paid for them? (as opposed to my cuetec and my fury). answer is no, they are worth every penny.

and tbh i can't think of anything else to say about his j/b's that hasn't already been said. I've tried quite a few different ones, although not a gilbert. and my Varney pwns them all.

one thing that did amuse me is that whenever Kevin is involved in any debate, argument or disagreement, buddha emerges from the woodwork to try and stir things up.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Okie dokie....let's say we keep this thread on a narrow track, shall we? Let's keep the cuemakers out of this, and just address the cues themselves...afterall, the OP asked about Gilbert j/b vs Varney j/b CUES....not about Andy Gilbert or his ability vs Kevin Varney or his ability.

Comparing the two cuemakers themselves is really not fair, because each cuemaker on the planet, if he is serious about his craft, is striving to do something different, whether outwardly or inwardly, with his cues. He has to...there are just too many cuemakers out there jostling for, compared to other sports, a relatively small market share of players and/or collectors. They have to bring something to the table that is different or ground-breaking...something that get's peoples' attention....and that is not always an easy thing to do.

Also...some cuemakers, while making a well playing cue, tend toward more collectible cues, with more elaborate inlays and such. There are others, whose only concern is to try an make the best damn playing cue on the planet, and don't go much for fancy inlays and such. (DPK/SW comes to mind here, often touted as 'players' cues...the designs have remained simple and unencumbered.) Then there is that handful of cuemakers, who strive to do both...and we all pretty much know who they are.

I do not think that 'paying dues' always necessarily applies....I think Sugartree and Zylr come to mind here...they have not been around all that long now, compared to many others, and yet, they seem to have made a terrific impact in the pool playing community, that they are already commanding higher than average prices on the secondary market...and while they each respectively make an extremely fine playing cue...their designs are very minimal with respect to some other cuemakers, who have 'paid their dues' and do not fair as well.

Just some food for thought.

Lisa

 

[buddha162]

tbh i feel no matter how much manwon stresses he means no offence in his putting down of Kevin's cues in comparison to gilbert's, what he was saying is still inherently rude and a bit irrelevant as well.

If reality is inherently rude then yes, manwon's statement is inherently rude.

but if as some people are saying that it's in the area of fancy inlays and bells and whistles that varney can't compete, then why is it even relevant?

No one said this. Varney does very well for himself, in his niche. And what's this "bells and whistle" crap? Properly executed points and veneers and finish are not extraneous aspects of cuebuilding.

i do think some of the "kevin is a great cuemaker, but even he would agree he's not in the same boat as such and such" comments are a little patronising and uncalled for.

Once again, I don't see how reality can be patronizing. Say we substitute Gilbert with Herceck, or Mottey, or Tascarella. Would it be patronizing to say, "Kevin is a great cuemaker, but even he would agree he's not in the same boat as Herceck, or Mottey, or Tascarella"?

one thing that did amuse me is that whenever Kevin is involved in any debate, argument or disagreement, buddha emerges from the woodwork to try and stir things up.

I'm glad my involvement amuses you.

-Roger