Ginky vs Archer
- Thread starter efirkey
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Fred Agnir
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efirkey said:
A second tier pro??? Why would you think that? He's been off the tournament trail of late, but he did win major tournaments when he was playing, so that automatically puts him no the highest echelon. You'll not confuse him with the greatest that ever played the game, but he certainly would be on the same level as, say, a Kim Davenport, Danny Basavich, and Charlie Williams.
Fred
Yeah, remember it well, because I was there. Ginky's first ever TV appearance, I seem to recall. By the way, how did you like the brief instructional feature with Randy G? Nice safety, Randy!
Obviously, Ginky vs Archer match turned on the safety on the eight ball at 3 - 3, on which Archer scratched, reproduced below, with the result shown, as well. I remember chatting with Archer about that shot, and he said there was a skid, which I definitely hadn't noticed then, but obviously he would know.
At the time, Ginky was just coming into his own, already having won a major ten ball event in Charlotte. He'd just graduated the ranks of the regional tour system, which he had dominated in the Northeast United States. Defintely a frist tier pro, perhaps not as well known as some of the other great ones, though.
Obviously, Ginky vs Archer match turned on the safety on the eight ball at 3 - 3, on which Archer scratched, reproduced below, with the result shown, as well. I remember chatting with Archer about that shot, and he said there was a skid, which I definitely hadn't noticed then, but obviously he would know.
At the time, Ginky was just coming into his own, already having won a major ten ball event in Charlotte. He'd just graduated the ranks of the regional tour system, which he had dominated in the Northeast United States. Defintely a frist tier pro, perhaps not as well known as some of the other great ones, though.
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Fred Agnir said:
Yeah Ginki was no joke, when he was full time on the pro scene he was definately in the upper echelon and a threat to win any event. He was easily a Basavich level player. He was hyped nearly to the level of Duell but never had that one year of dominance and US Open title to solidify the claim.
Davenport though, that guy belongs on the top teir. He will never go down as the best ever but he was right in the mix with the top pro's of his era way more then Basavich or Williams. I think he might have actually been the #1 player for a time even.
sjm said:
Well I said he would "easily" be that level, aka he easily matches that level and is more then likely alot higher. He was close to a Duell, only he never had that one huge year like Duell had. Basavich won the Reno Open, that is a decent event but it is the only real mark he has made and for sure Ginki was a more feared player as a true top pro. Basavich is more like a Schmidt or a Frost to me. Ginki was in the realm of the Archer and Strickland and Duell types of players, true pros who play (and win) the big events rather then gamblers who play local tours and tend to get tortured when all the big boys show up. Ginki would have had a chance to win the WPC, I dont think Basavich has what it takes to have an honest chance at that.
Fred said he would be that level, I dont actually know who to compare him with, Duell is probably the closest although when Duell was playing and Ginki was playing Duell was considered a little better (then again he was considered to be the best player in the world the year he won the US Open). He is a loss to the pool world, that is for sure. He was not only a top caliber player but a very cool guy.
I saw Ginky play at Valley Forge back when he was in top form. That was back whn they only had a womens pro event and about 5 "local" pro men playing a 9-ball/straight game that Allen Hopkins invented for the expo. I think it was Jimmy & Pete Fusco, Bob Maidoff, Ginky and I can't remember if Allen Hopkins played or not. Anyways, Ginky was VERY impressive running frequent racks... I heard he had some back problems? Is that why he slowed down? Just curious if anyone has that infoFred Agnir said:
sjm said:
jUS MY 2 CENTS .i KNOW THE GINKSTER, AND JUS TO TELL THIS ..hE WAS PLAYING oVER HIS HEAD WHEN HE WON ALL THOES .HE ALSO WON A BIG 10 BALL TOURNMENT IN NJ HE BEAT JOSE PARICA .B 4 THE BCA AND DERBY ,hE JUS LOST THE THE LOVE FOR THE GAME. BUT HE DOES STILL PLAY .AND HITS THEM SPORTY ..
KID DEE IS A VERY GOOD MONEY PLAYER AND JUS STARTED PLAYING IN THE BIG TOURNMENTS ..
AND THAY HAVE PLAYED A LOT IN THE PAST ..KID D AND GINKY...
JUS MY 2 CENTS
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Celtic said:
That means I was wrong, Celtic, because I'd agree with you that the Sands Reno is a significant title. Just hadn't realized that Danny won it. My mistake. I just felt Ginky, by capturing two of the toughest events on the planet was a pretty big deal, but I'll give Danny his due.
I thought George retired from pool to give cards a shot?
Kim D was player of the year in the early 90's so I'd put him above all the other guys we're talking about. When Kim was at his peak, he was phenomenal.
Kid D is as good as Ginky or better in my opinion. They have played a lot of $$ games and Kid D is up, from what I hear. Danny won Reno, should of won in LA (2nd place), and did well at the tourney before Reno (Glass City?Windy City? can't remember exactly) taking second and he ran 8 racks on someone coming from behind. Oh yeah, there's also the 500K in hustling he's made according to the Sports Illustrated article. The guy knows how to take down the cash.
If anyone wanted to back Ginky against Danny, I'm pretty sure Danny would love to play.
Kid D is as good as Ginky or better in my opinion. They have played a lot of $$ games and Kid D is up, from what I hear. Danny won Reno, should of won in LA (2nd place), and did well at the tourney before Reno (Glass City?Windy City? can't remember exactly) taking second and he ran 8 racks on someone coming from behind. Oh yeah, there's also the 500K in hustling he's made according to the Sports Illustrated article. The guy knows how to take down the cash.
If anyone wanted to back Ginky against Danny, I'm pretty sure Danny would love to play.
bud green said:
Yes, Davenport has more credentials than both. How'd he get into this thread?
The line of those that would want to back the Ginky of 1999-2000 against the Basavich of today would go around the block. Believe me, Danny knew better than to play Ginky without a spot back then.
Fred A. thought that Ginky was on a par with Davenport, Kid D, and Charlie Williams - that's why I responded about Davenport.
It surprises me that people think Ginky of 2000 is so much better than Kid D of today. Danny hasn't won the WPC or anything yet but he's done pretty good. I'd heard Danny had beat Ginky for $$ a few times and Ginky was kind of avoiding him, but that's a second-hand story from 3000 miles away so who knows. It might have been around the same time Ginky was losing interest in the game anyway.
It surprises me that people think Ginky of 2000 is so much better than Kid D of today. Danny hasn't won the WPC or anything yet but he's done pretty good. I'd heard Danny had beat Ginky for $$ a few times and Ginky was kind of avoiding him, but that's a second-hand story from 3000 miles away so who knows. It might have been around the same time Ginky was losing interest in the game anyway.
bud green said:
I'll offer you some historical perspective.
During 2001, the same year that Mika Immonen won the WPC, I staked Mika in a race to 20 against Ginky on a very tight table. I reckoned I was entitled to odds, and so did Ginky's stakehorse that day.
That may surprise you a little, but as all New Yorkers who competed back then will recall (Mika was living here in NYC) that both Mika and Ginky played in nearly all the Joss events and nearly all the Tri State tour open class events. Ginky's track record was far superior to Mika's in the many events in which they and Mika both played.
Sure enough, I was offered three to two odds on the money, 1,500 to 1,000. Unfortunately for me, Mika was not quite up to the challenge, as Ginky edged him 20- 19 at Corner Billiards in front of many.
Now, of course, I don't know what you think of Mika's game, but you do know that it was only four years ago that most New yorkers felt Ginky was a stronger player than Mika.
Still, these debates need never be resolved. We're just sharing opinions and information, but...........you did miss something special if you didn't get to watch Ginky in his prime.
sjm said:
Tin cups and titles sure don't pay the rent, unfortunately, which is why so many of the good ones like Ginky get disgusted and quit playing professionally on a full-time basis. Can't say that I blame them either!
Danny "Kid Delicious" Basavich happens to be one of my faves on the tournament trail. He did win the Reno Open a few years ago, and last year, he came in second place at the 2004 Glass City Open. He barbecued Corey Deuel running a 6-pack, and it wasn't that Corey played bad. He just didn't get very many opportunities at the table. He could only sit back and watch The Kid Delicious Show because that's what it was.
Danny also won the $25,000-added 2004 Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour Season Finale in Portland, Maine, right after winning a Joss tournament at Snookers in Rhode Island the weekend before. Back-to-back wins are kind of nice when you're on the road.
I could see Danny winning the U.S. Open this year if his game is on. He's just that good (IMO).
BTW, it's always nice to run into Ginky on the tournament trail when we are fortunate enough and can afford to participate in a tournament in New York City. Here's a shot of a blond Ginky and Keith.
JAM
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JAM said:Tin cups and titles sure don't pay the rent, unfortunately, which is why so many of the good ones like Ginky get disgusted and quit playing professionally on a full-time basis. Can't say that I blame them either!
Danny "Kid Delicious" Basavich happens to be one of my faves on the tournament trail. He did win the Reno Open a few years ago, and last year, he came in second place at the 2004 Glass City Open. He barbecued Corey Deuel running a 6-pack, and it wasn't that Corey played bad. He just didn't get very many opportunities at the table. He could only sit back and watch The Kid Delicious Show because that's what it was.
Danny also won the $25,000-added 2004 Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour Season Finale in Portland, Maine, right after winning a Joss tournament at Snookers in Rhode Island the weekend before. Back-to-back wins are kind of nice when you're on the road.
I could see Danny winning the U.S. Open this year if his game is on. He's just that good (IMO).
BTW, it's always nice to run into Ginky on the tournament trail when we are fortunate enough and can afford to participate in a tournament in New York City. Here's a shot of a blond Ginky and Keith.
JAM
Yeah, seeing Danny B win something big would be sweet. He's such a quality guy, the kind of guy you want to see succeed. He may be ready for a breakthrough in one of pool's premier events.
Wow, now that's an awesome picture of Ginky and Keith! FYI, Keith hung out with me and Ginky briefly in the casino at the Riviera during the BCA Open(1999, I think, but not that sure).
Damn pathetic these guys/gals don't get their JUST financial due for making all the personal sacrifices and playing their hearts out!!! :mad You can only go so far with the love for the game!!! The young guns can handle it for awhile but what about the grizzled vets?!!! who dont get sponsor money?
And...WTH can't people (MEN) work together toward a future in pool like some of the other breakthrough sports (i.e. golf, tennis)? I know, I know... beating a dead horse but it makes me sick and I'm disgusted!!!
And...WTH can't people (MEN) work together toward a future in pool like some of the other breakthrough sports (i.e. golf, tennis)? I know, I know... beating a dead horse but it makes me sick and I'm disgusted!!!
NYC cue dude
Banned
I am probably ginky's best friend, so I will offer a little perspective.
Ginky is a world class elite level pro, winning both the bca open and derby city PLUS the 99 world straight pool title, and that is enough for a resume.
Ginky still plays, but his heart is not in it, since his body failed him some 4 or 5 yrs ago.
BTW, ask the archers and stricklands if they really wanted to draw ginky before the semi's of any tournament, that should give some perspective.
BTW, it is also debateable, some will say, that he had the best cue ball control in the world. I argue yes he did.
about the race to 20 with mika, i was just talking to the master 2 nights ago about that, we are still laughing it up, ha ha.
rg
Ginky is a world class elite level pro, winning both the bca open and derby city PLUS the 99 world straight pool title, and that is enough for a resume.
Ginky still plays, but his heart is not in it, since his body failed him some 4 or 5 yrs ago.
BTW, ask the archers and stricklands if they really wanted to draw ginky before the semi's of any tournament, that should give some perspective.
BTW, it is also debateable, some will say, that he had the best cue ball control in the world. I argue yes he did.
about the race to 20 with mika, i was just talking to the master 2 nights ago about that, we are still laughing it up, ha ha.
rg
The Time Is Now
New member
I am also a close friend of Ginky and can tell you that he was destined to become a living legend. He had no weaknesses in his game and no one worked harder than he did. He was the most dedicated player that I have ever seen and continues to be an inspiration to me to this day.
I have probably played him more when he was at his best than anyone else. He made me realize what my weaknesses were and thanks to him, I grew and continue to grow as a player.
I still have 100% complete faith in him as a person and a player. I also believe that he will come back someday. The second coming of Ginky will be even better than the first. I hope that he will get his desire back now that Kevin Trudeau is starting up the IPT next year.
You can do it kid. Get out there and show everyone what you are made of.
God Bless.
TR
I have probably played him more when he was at his best than anyone else. He made me realize what my weaknesses were and thanks to him, I grew and continue to grow as a player.
I still have 100% complete faith in him as a person and a player. I also believe that he will come back someday. The second coming of Ginky will be even better than the first. I hope that he will get his desire back now that Kevin Trudeau is starting up the IPT next year.
You can do it kid. Get out there and show everyone what you are made of.
God Bless.
TR