God is not going to help you win your match!

I was walking in the door to a Country Bar one New Years Eve party. An acquaintance of mine was going in at the same time.

He was an ex Baptist Minister. He looked at me and said, "I feel like a dead Atheist tonight".

I said, "hows that Tom".

He said back, "all dressed up with no place to go".

I'm like RJ Mon in the respect that I don't put a whole lot of stock in the written word but figure there is something out there so not taking any chances.

I had a couple of near Death experiences when I was pre op for an op on my brain.
It was rather a positive experience so will run with those until I take my last breath.

Then, ya know what, if there is nothing, you just go to sleep and know not anything else.

If there is something, it will be an exciting experience.

Your Soul is your Ki, or energy. You can't kill energy. It will live on. Where it goes afterward, maybe we will find out, yes?

I had a Buddy that passed from cancer at an early age. He used to say, I will get enuff sleep when I'm dead.

Don't take life too serious, have fun, smell the flowers, watch a sunset or two. You know what I mean.

BTW, Praying is somewhat of an art form. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you're going to get it. You have to be a little realistic.

I spent the last several evenings sleeping in my Fathers room when he was ready to pass. I knew that I was going to be with him when he drew his last breath. Instead of Praying for a Miracle, I Prayed for the strength to be able to be there and hold his hand as he drew his last breath.

My Prayer was answered.
 
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KCRack'em said:
I think is relevant:

Why I Raise My Kids Without God
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-910282

I wish I had been raised that way.
Click to expand...

I am sympathetic to the view that kids not be indoctrinated with religion before a certain age. Teach and inculcate ethical and moral values like justice, fairness, kindness, etc. They are too young to be labeled Catholic or Protestant or Mormon. When they are grown up having been raised in a moral environment then they can choose which religion to follow or none at all.

Dawkins has said that we don’t label kids Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative; in the same manner we don’t attach religious labels to kids. I tend to agree.
The default position for kids is non-religious/apatheism.

____________________________________


Somewhere, and I can’t find where, I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, “If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?” “No”, said the priest, “not if you did not know.” “Then why”, asked the Eskimo earnestly, “did you tell me?” - Annie Dillard
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I was walking in the door to a Country Bar one New Years Eve party. An acquaintance of mine was going in at the same time.

He was an ex Baptist Minister. He looked at me and said, "I feel like a dead Atheist tonight".

I said, "hows that Tom".

He said back, "all dressed up with no place to go".

I'm like RJ Mon in the respect that I don't put a whole lot of stock in the written word but figure there is something out there so not taking any chances.

I had a couple of near Death experiences when I was pre op for an op on my brain.
It was rather a positive experience so will run with those until I take my last breath.

Then, ya know what, if there is nothing, you just go to sleep and know not anything else.

If there is something, it will be an exciting experience.

Your Soul is your Ki, or energy. You can't kill energy. It will live on. Where it goes afterward, maybe we will find out, yes?

I had a Buddy that passed from cancer at an early age. He used to say, I will get enuff sleep when I'm dead.

Don't take life too serious, have fun, smell the flowers, watch a sunset or two. You know what I mean.

BTW, Praying is somewhat of an art form. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you're going to get it. You have to be a little realistic.

I spent the last several evenings sleeping in my Fathers room when he was ready to pass. I knew that I was going to be with him when he drew his last breath. Instead of Praying for a Miracle, I Prayed for the strength to be able to be there and hold his hand as he drew his last breath.

My Prayer was answered.
Click to expand...

Nice post!!!!
 
I watched an old video tape years ago about a man, Doctor somebody(PhD), who set out to prove God did not exist. In the end he converted, and became a believer. He said the one thing he could not explain, unless what they saw was real, was the death of the Disciples. All died horrible deaths save one, John, who was exiled to an island where he wrote the book of Revelations.The bible doesn't speak much on the deaths, but had to be researched by historians.He put it kind of like this....you get 12 people together and make up a story. Now the 12 split up, and go to different parts of the world. Each of the 12 are arrested, and told that if they do not deny God they will die. Some were stoned, burned alive, crucified, killed by sword, but not one of them would deny Christ and live. They all chose to die. This goes against human nature, I mean if what they saw was not real, and believing that denying what they saw would be a fate worse than death, most if not all of them would have said "Hey man, I was just kidding!". Not one, they all chose death! Believe or don't believe, but somebody saw something!
 
this thread is still on the main forum? i guess the admins here jdgaf. i thought this was supposed to be a well respected forum. guess i was wrong
 
God and Pool

Interesting topic... I tried to read a lot of the post and it seems many jump back and forth on the existence of God and how foolish it is to believe in a God that cares about what we do on the pool table.

I profess in Jesus as God and I absolutely believe he cares about everything thing I do... yes including pool... I do not believe he would "cause" a miracle to tilt the game in my favor... but he has provided the situation for me to play and enjoy a game at times in a world of hurting and suffering people. He allows me to escape, for just a spell, the hardships of life in a game of pool.

When I read about "Proofing" God's existence with evidence through a scientific method it makes me giggle... how can you prove something that is outside of the parameters you are in... Discussions of logic can point people to believe or not believe in God but Proof? a little silly...

Another side note... it was a Catholic Priest who first thought of the "scientific method" way of thinking...

if you look at it with a bigger lens you see two options of possibilities... Chaos (Random theory) or Design Theory... Which ever way you lean does not matter... we play pool within the Design theory... We expect the balls to roll one way or another based on set Natural Laws... Since we live and operate under the design theory there must be a designer... I call him God...

Peace in all Things Michael
 
RussPrince said:
this thread is still on the main forum? i guess the admins here jdgaf. i thought this was supposed to be a well respected forum. guess i was wrong
Click to expand...


Dude, you were waaaaaay wrong. And if this is the only thread that made you realize it, well, you must not read much.
 
The Dragon In My Garage
by
Carl Sagan

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floates in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

The only thing you've really learned from my insistence that there's a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You'd wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I've seriously underestimated human fallibility.
 
GodIsNotGreat said:
The Dragon In My Garage
by
Carl Sagan

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in.
Click to expand...

Interesting little story... However If I am not mistaken Carl Saga believed in the "Big Bang" theory...

Why did he believe in this? He knows that we exist. He knows that everything that exist is dependent on something else to bring into existence...

Because we exist and knowing that we are dependent on something else previously we have to trace it back to the point where something exists without being dependent on something else... this point must be there because of the simple fact that we are here and we started from something....

For those who do not want to say the three letter word "God" they select another word that describes what Christians have been saying all these years... Big bang and God are one and the same... God spoke and bang it started. :)
 
GodIsNotGreat said:
What's the difference between an invisible, ineffable, undefinable God and a non-existent one?

________________________

The invisible and the non-existent look pretty much the same - D. Mckown
Click to expand...

I learned a long time ago "looks are decieving". I cannot see air (unless your in LA LOL) and yet I am dependent on it... So just because it's invisible to me it does matter that it exist...

Now Since the stance that God create all from nothing is claimed you can either believe it or not... We know something created because we are here...

If you look back into history the reason why The Western civilization has exploded in the scientific fields is because of the base premise that God create the universe with specific laws that can be predicted... It is no coincidence that Christianity and the science revolution go hand in hand...
 
st_michael said:
It is no coincidence that Christianity and the science revolution go hand in hand...
Click to expand...

You clearly do not know many evangelical christians who believe the earth is four thousand years old, that we all rode dinosaurs around like the Flintstones, and that evolution and climate change are weakly supported hoaxes.
 
st_michael said:
Interesting little story... However If I am not mistaken Carl Saga believed in the "Big Bang" theory...

Why did he believe in this? He knows that we exist. He knows that everything that exist is dependent on something else to bring into existence...

Because we exist and knowing that we are dependent on something else previously we have to trace it back to the point where something exists without being dependent on something else... this point must be there because of the simple fact that we are here and we started from something....

For those who do not want to say the three letter word "God" they select another word that describes what Christians have been saying all these years... Big bang and God are one and the same... God spoke and bang it started. :)
Click to expand...

The Big Bang has detectable evidence in the cosmic microwave background radiation. God does not. Sagan can assert that the big bang happened because there is evidence that supports that it happened. You cannot assert that god or any supernatural entity caused the big bang until you provide evidence supporting that claim.


st_michael said:
I learned a long time ago "looks are decieving". I cannot see air (unless your in LA LOL) and yet I am dependent on it... So just because it's invisible to me it does matter that it exist...

Now Since the stance that God create all from nothing is claimed you can either believe it or not... We know something created because we are here...

If you look back into history the reason why The Western civilization has exploded in the scientific fields is because of the base premise that God create the universe with specific laws that can be predicted... It is no coincidence that Christianity and the science revolution go hand in hand...
Click to expand...

Air can be demonstrated to exist even if it cannot be seen on the visible spectrum. God cannot and must be explained away as "magic" whenever inquiries are made.

We don't know that something created us or the universe. That is an assumption without supporting evidence.

If you look back into history, people believed that the earth was flat, slavery was okay, flies spawned from meat, etc. There is a reason we don't believe in that stuff anymore and why we are moving away from religion. Its called progress.
 
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ArtOfTheCue said:
You clearly do not know many evangelical christians who believe the earth is four thousand years old, that we all rode dinosaurs around like the Flintstones, and that evolution and climate change are weakly supported hoaxes.
Click to expand...

I have my time with people who believe like that... I like History and science the more I learn of how much design is in the universe the more I am convince of a creator... The Bible is not a science book as some push it to be...
 
Masayoshi said:
The Big Bang has detectable evidence in the cosmic microwave background radiation. God does not. Sagan can assert that the big bang happened because there is evidence that supports that it happened. You cannot assert that god or any supernatural entity caused the big bang until you provide evidence supporting that claim.

Air can be demonstrated to exist even if it cannot be seen on the visible spectrum. We don't know that something created us or the universe. That is an assumption without supportin evidence.

If you look back into history, people believed that the earth was flat, slavery was okay, flies spawned from meat, etc. There is a reason we don't believe in that stuff anymore and why we are moving away from religion. Its called progress.
Click to expand...
The evidence that the big bang happened is out there... That is what I claimed... Something started it... We exist..therefore it started somehow. All the evidence we have points to a power outside of our known existence that can call into existence without being dependent on something... Trace your linage back. You exist because of your parents... They exist because if there parents... Trace the line all the way back and something had to kick it off to a start without the need of dependency of something else.... We cannot see before the Big bang because all the evidence we have is caused by the bang

It is impossible to prove beyond a doubt the existence of God... For God is beyond our Universe... He is not contained within the same Natural laws as what he created... He created all the evidence we humans look at and wonder about... Ironically this evidence is what pulls me to believe in God... How can you not look at science and still not believe in a designer? The basic premise of science is the belief that things are ordered in a certain way for us to predict an outcome...
 
st_michael said:
I have my time with people who believe like that... I like History and science the more I learn of how much design is in the universe the more I am convince of a creator... The Bible is not a science book as some push it to be...
Click to expand...

Tell me something... Why, in your opinion, do you have an appendix? I mean, if we were created by an all-knowing, all-powerful designer, why give us unnecessary parts? Especially something like an appendix that can blow up, release poison into your system, and kill you? Do you think a good engineer would design a randomly timed self destruct function into a car or an airplane?
 
st_michael said:
The evidence that the big bang happened is out there... That is what I claimed... Something started it... We exist..therefore it started somehow. All the evidence we have points to a power outside of our known existence that can call into existence without being dependent on something... Trace your linage back. You exist because of your parents... They exist because if there parents... Trace the line all the way back and something had to kick it off to a start without the need of dependency of something else.... We cannot see before the Big bang because all the evidence we have is caused by the bang
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. There is no evidence to say that anything started the big bang. Any claims to have knowledge of events that happened before the big bang are simply conjecture and not to be taken as fact.

You may say "nothing can't come from nothing, so there must be a creator." That is a false dichotomy. Nothing comes from nothing all the time, it is one of the main points of quantum physics. Of course, that is not to say for a fact that the universe is a giant quantum fluctuation because that would be as arrogant as claiming that god did it was a fact. The plain and simple answer is "We don't know."

It is impossible to prove beyond a doubt the existence of God...
Click to expand...

You don't need to prove beyond a doubt. For starters, you need just give something credible that suggests he exists. As of now, in all the thousands of years god(s) have been worshiped to, there has been none.

For God is mbeyond our Universe... He is not contained within the same Natural laws as what he created... He created all the evidence we humans look at and wonder about... Ironically this evidence is what pulls me to believe in God... How can you not look at science and still not believe in a designer? The basic premise of science is the belief that things are ordered in a certain way for us to predict an outcome...
Click to expand...

That is not evidence. Evidence and conjecture are not to be confused with one another.

No, science does not premise that the universe is ordered. It may come to that conclusion after repeat testing, but that is not assumed.
 
ArtOfTheCue said:
Tell me something... Why, in your opinion, do you have an appendix? I mean, if we were created by an all-knowing, all-powerful designer, why give us unnecessary parts? Especially something like an appendix that can blow up, release poison into your system, and kill you? Do you think a good engineer would design a randomly timed self destruct function into a car or an airplane?
Click to expand...

Hmm. Who says we have useless body parts? Why do some blind people have eye balls? Maybe our parts are not working as they should be... Maybe humanity has introduced something into the design that has caused our bodies not work as they should?
 
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