Gold Crown ll

D

dd1228

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I just picked up a 9 foot Gold Crown ll and I reconditioned it and it looks great. However, the pockets are the hardest I have ever played on. I've been a table mechanic for over 50 years but I can't figure this one out. The corners are 5 inches wide, so they're plenty big. I did replace the pocket facings and I'm wondering if they are too thin or too soft. Also wonder if I should reduce the shelf area to less than 2 inches. Even shooting soft down the rail the ball will hang up if it touches the side rail first. It almost looks like it's physically impossible for the ball not to fall, but it won't.
Any ideas??????
 
If it's the stock Brunswick pocket, the opening might be 143*.
Mine was like that . At that angle it spits balls out . It even gets worse when the facings get hard.

I'm getting mine redone to 139* at less than 4 1/2 corners. Maybe around 4 3/8".
 
dd1228 said:
I just picked up a 9 foot Gold Crown ll and I reconditioned it and it looks great. However, the pockets are the hardest I have ever played on. I've been a table mechanic for over 50 years but I can't figure this one out. The corners are 5 inches wide, so they're plenty big. I did replace the pocket facings and I'm wondering if they are too thin or too soft. Also wonder if I should reduce the shelf area to less than 2 inches. Even shooting soft down the rail the ball will hang up if it touches the side rail first. It almost looks like it's physically impossible for the ball not to fall, but it won't.
Any ideas??????
Click to expand...

Line 4 balls up on the side rail past the side pocket touching each other and the rail, Shoot the first one at nearly break speed and see what happens as the fourth one goes past the side pocket and toward the corner. If it goes in then aim better, your pockets are fine.

Most tables don't play as friendly as what you see the pros getting away with on those diamonds with new cloth on them sliding balls in that his a diamond up the rail.

JC
 
dd1228 said:
I just picked up a 9 foot Gold Crown ll and I reconditioned it and it looks great. However, the pockets are the hardest I have ever played on. I've been a table mechanic for over 50 years but I can't figure this one out. The corners are 5 inches wide, so they're plenty big. I did replace the pocket facings and I'm wondering if they are too thin or too soft. Also wonder if I should reduce the shelf area to less than 2 inches. Even shooting soft down the rail the ball will hang up if it touches the side rail first. It almost looks like it's physically impossible for the ball not to fall, but it won't.
Any ideas??????
Click to expand...
Sounds like you need your inside the pocket angles altered. Tables that are 5"+ at the mouth can play brutally tough on shots down the rail if the taper angle inside the pocket is too severe, as Joey in Cali suggested. That is likely the case with your table. Changing the angle won't require removing the cushion rubbers or extending the subrails but just opposite. I'm not a table mechanic, but I've seen close up Ernesto performing it on some of our tables here, and of course, he makes it look easy.

With the rails detached and rail cloths peeled back around the facings, so you can sand them at the correct angle, after removing the pocket facings, taking a hand held belt sander and changing the angle by removing a little bit of subrail and cushion rubber from the back portion of your pockets, being careful not to alter the down angle on your subrails / cushion rubber edges. You'll need to use a protractor to get it correct but you'll need to change your angle from what likely now is probably around 144 degrees down to around 140 degrees. The pockets should then play much better. Be advised you could really screw up your rails if you are not extremely careful and experienced with using a belt sander!
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Im a newbie to the forum and I have no idea how to post pictures. Maybe someone can enlighten me. So basically youre saying that by changing the cushion angle from 144 degrees to 140 it will make the pocket easier? By doing this youre actually increasing the throat size ,correct. Wont this cause the aluminum pocket casting to be sticking out a little on both sides at the throat?
 
dd1228 said:
Thanks for the replies everyone. Im a newbie to the forum and I have no idea how to post pictures. Maybe someone can enlighten me. So basically youre saying that by changing the cushion angle from 144 degrees to 140 it will make the pocket easier? By doing this youre actually increasing the throat size ,correct. Wont this cause the aluminum pocket casting to be sticking out a little on both sides at the throat?
Click to expand...

You're not touching the throat when you are reducing the opening .
You're extending the sub-rails then cutting the right angle.

Joey~Not a mechanic but I stayed at the Hilton last night ~
 
Got a cell phone? Take pics, download them to your computer. Then when you get ready to post go down to where it says Manage Attachments. Hopefully you can take it from there. If not just let us know.

r/DCP
 
I got one hell of a laugh out of this thread, starting first with the over 50 years experience as pool table mechanic, then by everyone throwing in their advice! I'll have to call Mark and tell him about this thread:rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
 
I know people who are car mechanics that wouldn't work on a Ferrari.
Also know Ferrari people who wouldn't work on a go kart.

It's all relative Glen.


realkingcobra said:
I got one hell of a laugh out of this thread, starting first with the over 50 years experience as pool table mechanic, then by everyone throwing in their advice! I'll have to call Mark and tell him about this thread:rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
Click to expand...
 
u12armresl said:
I know people who are car mechanics that wouldn't work on a Ferrari.

Also know Ferrari people who wouldn't work on a go kart.



It's all relative Glen.
Click to expand...



Not in Glen’s world. In Glen’s world one should never even look at a Ferrari till they know how to fix it. Then fix it in a quicker time than him in order to gain respect. It’s the pushing down of talent to remain supreme. Common problem with insecure people.


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ThinSlice said:
Not in Glen’s world. In Glen’s world one should never even look at a Ferrari till they know how to fix it. Then fix it in a quicker time than him in order to gain respect. It’s the pushing down of talent to remain supreme. Common problem with insecure people.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...

It's very clear you've been banned before, joining in Oct 2018 this isn't your regular screen name, don't be to surprised if you get this one banned permanently as well...LOL
 
Before the flame war starts, lets get back on track.

OP,
Once again, pics would be a HUGE help here. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to do that.

r/DCP
 
ChrisinNC said:
Sounds like you need your inside the pocket angles altered. Tables that are 5"+ at the mouth can play brutally tough on shots down the rail if the taper angle inside the pocket is too severe, as Joey in Cali suggested. That is likely the case with your table. Changing the angle won't require removing the cushion rubbers or extending the subrails but just opposite. I'm not a table mechanic, but I've seen close up Ernesto performing it on some of our tables here, and of course, he makes it look easy.

With the rails detached and rail cloths peeled back around the facings, so you can sand them at the correct angle, after removing the pocket facings, taking a hand held belt sander and changing the angle by removing a little bit of subrail and cushion rubber from the back portion of your pockets, being careful not to alter the down angle on your subrails / cushion rubber edges. You'll need to use a protractor to get it correct but you'll need to change your angle from what likely now is probably around 144 degrees down to around 140 degrees. The pockets should then play much better. Be advised you could really screw up your rails if you are not extremely careful and experienced with using a belt sander!
Click to expand...

Chris, how do you measure this angle to come up with 140 or 143 degrees? I'm not sure what this measurement refers to. Thanks, Jay
 
ChrisinNC said:
Sounds like you need your inside the pocket angles altered. Tables that are 5"+ at the mouth can play brutally tough on shots down the rail if the taper angle inside the pocket is too severe, as Joey in Cali suggested. That is likely the case with your table. Changing the angle won't require removing the cushion rubbers or extending the subrails but just opposite. I'm not a table mechanic, but I've seen close up Ernesto performing it on some of our tables here, and of course, he makes it look easy.

With the rails detached and rail cloths peeled back around the facings, so you can sand them at the correct angle, after removing the pocket facings, taking a hand held belt sander and changing the angle by removing a little bit of subrail and cushion rubber from the back portion of your pockets, being careful not to alter the down angle on your subrails / cushion rubber edges. You'll need to use a protractor to get it correct but you'll need to change your angle from what likely now is probably around 144 degrees down to around 140 degrees. The pockets should then play much better. Be advised you could really screw up your rails if you are not extremely careful and experienced with using a belt sander!
Click to expand...

Worst advice I've ever seen given on AZB for working on pockets. 1 degree =1/16" of an inch change in a pocket opening, 3 degrees is almost a 1/4" wider at the back of the pocket on both sides as you suggest, do you plan on sanding a 1/4" of the formica back on both sides of the throat and leave the pocket casting overhanging the throat of the pocket too....LOL then, if you opened the throat of the pocket as you suggest, do you realize how much more slate shelf is exposed so balls have even more room to sit in the throat of the pockets!

I've talked about and explained how to correct pocket miters, down angles, the cause and effect of the changes for YEARS here on AZB, Mark Gregory and I BOTH have....and this is the best advice you can come up with....wow.

And to the OP, when you say you're a pool table mechanic, and have 50 years experience.....just what do you mean by a pool table mechanic with 50 years experience, when you're asking BASIC questions like what you're asking about. What kind of things have you done to work on pool tables for 50 years, to call yourself a pool table mechanic. And as been mentioned, pictures would be great, I tell everyone lead off with pictures so everyone can see what you're looking at as well. Last question, you said you refinished this table, what color was it painted on the rail skirts before you refinished them?
 
jay helfert said:
Chris, how do you measure this angle to come up with 140 or 143 degrees? I'm not sure what this measurement refers to. Thanks, Jay
Click to expand...
https://get.google.com/albumarchive...J8IjTzXNL6OhwiCP8ydNQMku_6VymKk9VY?source=pwa

Might as well post a subrail extension work.
Public folder of Jack Zimmerman.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?266185&p=3480485#post3480485

Protractor measuring https://get.google.com/albumarchive.../AF1QipN9sjR_e0A1gHYmzQKoYO7hysVP42NzBxBuEBKI
 
Nice bashing Glen! Might be your best yet. What a gentleman!


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