Good ebony and good shaftwood

[breakshot]

Cue collectors and players beware:

It is becomming increasingly hard for cuemakers to find good aged jet black ebony and clear, white, slow growth, straight grain shaftwood.

Because of the scariciety of these and other building materials - it has come to my attention many times over the past year that more and more cuemakers (and BIG name cuemakers)are resorting to using nelsonite to stabilize their shafts and also dying/staining bad ebony, maple, etc. in order to have the look of good clean dark ebony.

As Steve (Tikkler) has said before just make sure your cuemaker is totally forthcomming when they are building your cues

Craig

 

[skor]

What's the problem with using nelsonite to stabilize the shaft's wood?

 

[stikapos]

NE cuemakers have been using Nelsonite for years. Of course, if you knew anything about the subject, you would know that Nelsonite has been replaced by almost all with a less toxic solution called Resolute and that clear, white maple isn't what its cracked up to be anyway. More rings, straight spine and darker wood is where its at, not demanded by most, but only because of ignorance on the subject. And finally, after years of being an ebony snob myself, my maple Bluegrass cured my own addiction. Its all about performance and today's cuemakers have done just fine with lesser woods.

tim

 

[skor]

O.K. my question is more whether there is an "issue" with using wood stabilizers at all regardless of the brand name.

From what I understood from reading BB Custom Cues post is that he has a problem with using a wood stabilizer and I wanted to know what's wrong with doing so?

 

[stikapos]

I'm not a cuemaker, but here's my limited knowledge on the subject. First, it is said that Jerry Franklin of Southwest Cues used Nelsonite in his bathroom (no ventilation) to treat his shafts. Without ventilation, may have contributed to his cancer. Still, all these years later, I'd say his shafts are fine. Here's a link to a much more learned discussion on the subject from Joe Barringer, who can write a novel on just about anything and is therefore a very intelligent nut, knows his stuff about cuemaking....http://www.cuecomponents.com/nelsonite.html

tim

 

[Ktown D]

First, it is said that Jerry Franklin of Southwest Cues used Nelsonite in his bathroom (no ventilation) to treat his shafts. Without ventilation, may have contributed to his cancer.
tim

Didn't Jerry have a heart attack?

 

[stikapos]

Cue collectors and players beware:

It is becomming increasingly hard for cuemakers to find good aged jet black ebony and clear, white, slow growth, straight grain shaftwood.

Because of the scariciety of these and other building materials - it has come to my attention many times over the past year that more and more cuemakers (and BIG name cuemakers)are resorting to using nelsonite to stabilize their shafts and also dying/staining bad ebony, maple, etc. in order to have the look of good clean dark ebony.

As Steve (Tikkler) has said before just make sure your cuemaker is totally forthcomming when they are building your cues

Craig

And just another note. We all know that quality woods have been hard to find for many years. Stating this fact is like saying "Wow, we have shortage of oil!" In other words, it had to happen eventually. You can't fault folks for trying to do their best with what they've got to work with. As I said before, cuemakers are doing a great job with lesser woods. I have complete faith in their abilities to find new solution to wood shortages. And if I'm collecting, I'm not buying anything made past 1990 anyway. Just my opinion on the subject. Now get back to the lathe and let your customers pay you some well deserved money for your work (regardless of the quality of wood involved) !

tim

 

[hangemhigh]

Jet black Ebony and straight, tight grained Maple is not hard to find in limited quantities. I think someone who is making a few (less than 20) cues a year should not have any trouble with the quality of wood used. When you start cranking out 8-10 cues a month (around 100 a year) you run into problems.

 

[Paul Dayton]

Quality woods are available.

Wood stabilizers are okay if you don't have time to let the wood fully season. If it wobbles throw it out.

 

[WilleeCue]

From what I understood from reading BB Custom Cues post is that he has a problem with using a wood stabilizer and I wanted to know what's wrong with doing so?

Perhaps that is his personal opinion not solid fact.
Be warned that not all you see on the internet is the truth.

I do believe that a cue maker should be up front about the materials he uses and what processes they are put thru.
However, it is the burden of the buyer to ask the questions that are of importance.
Dont wait until the cue is done to ask if wood stabilizer or any color enhancements were used on the wood.

 

[skor]

I do believe that a cue maker should be up front about the materials he uses and what processes they are put thru.

I have to disagree here. Some processes could be considered a professional secret. If a certain cue maker found a process or a material that makes his cue play better then the rest then I don't expect him to give up his secret ingredients...
However if someone is telling you that it's ebony (or any other material) and it's not then that's pure fraud!

 

[WilleeCue]

I have to disagree here. Some processes could be considered a professional secret. If a certain cue maker found a process or a material that makes his cue play better then the rest then I don't expect him to give up his secret ingredients...

There is no cue that plays better than the rest for everyone.
Every cue is different and every player is different.
One player may think a cue plays like S*** while another will think it is the best ever.
A cue maker will normally make a cue that HE thinks plays well and look for ways to make it even better.

What I was referring to was things like natural or stained wood, treated or untreated shaft wood, cored forearm or not cored, things like that.
To most only the look and play is what matters.
Some get involved with every detail and how it is made becomes an important factor.

 

[ShootingArts]

Nelsonite

Nelsonite is reported to change the hit and sound of a shaft very slightly. Very difficult to prove since the same shaft isn't tested both ways. Nelsonite is used very early in the shaft making process although some smiths do dip the shafts multiple times.

Resolute is very similar to Nelsonite. Although the smell is much less I had difficulty breathing after applying Resolute outdoors. I went to a fan blowing the fumes away from me even though a slight breeze was blowing anyway.

Some of my shaft wood is dipped, some isn't. All of it is aged by me after buying "aged" shaftwood anyway. The reported aging is nice but safest to age wood yourself. My exotic woods are likewise aged again after I own them regardless of the history I am given.

Wood quality is a lot like the kids today. When I was a wee lad, wood quality was lousy compared to what it had been in the past and the kids of the day were all going to hell in a hand basket. Half a century later the story is just the same. The wood quality has been decreasing all the time from the woods of fifty years ago and every new generation of kids is worse than the last.

Yet the world keeps on rocking along.

Hu

 

[rhncue]

Nelsonite is reported to change the hit and sound of a shaft very slightly. Very difficult to prove since the same shaft isn't tested both ways. Nelsonite is used very early in the shaft making process although some smiths do dip the shafts multiple times.

Resolute is very similar to Nelsonite. Although the smell is much less I had difficulty breathing after applying Resolute outdoors. I went to a fan blowing the fumes away from me even though a slight breeze was blowing anyway.

Some of my shaft wood is dipped, some isn't. All of it is aged by me after buying "aged" shaftwood anyway. The reported aging is nice but safest to age wood yourself. My exotic woods are likewise aged again after I own them regardless of the history I am given.

Wood quality is a lot like the kids today. When I was a wee lad, wood quality was lousy compared to what it had been in the past and the kids of the day were all going to hell in a hand basket. Half a century later the story is just the same. The wood quality has been decreasing all the time from the woods of fifty years ago and every new generation of kids is worse than the last.

Yet the world keeps on rocking along.
Hu

All very well said and very true.

All of my shaft wood is aged and incrementally turned but I still use Nelsonite as extra insurance. When driving in a car you don't expect to crash but it doesn't hurt to have seat belts. As far as good Ebony being scarce well it's still out there, it just costs more is all. It's all supply and demand, you know. Finding dry Ebony, as with many hard woods, is often a problem as many, exotic hardwoods, are seldom force dried. Often it will cause heavy checking in the wood. It is for this reason that many cuemakers buy thousands of dollars worth of hard woods just to sit on as it air dries. I'm using ebony that I purchased over 15 years ago.

Dick

 

[01rkclassic]

SW treated shafts?

First, it is said that Jerry Franklin of Southwest Cues used Nelsonite in his bathroom (no ventilation) to treat his shafts.
tim[/QUOTE]


I have ordered cues from South West before and during conversations with Laurie she told me they have never cored cues or treated shafts with a stabilizer

 

[stikapos]

First, it is said that Jerry Franklin of Southwest Cues used Nelsonite in his bathroom (no ventilation) to treat his shafts.
tim

I have ordered cues from South West before and during conversations with Laurie she told me they have never cored cues or treated shafts with a stabilizer[/QUOTE]
Who said anything about SW coring cues ? But while on the subject, if one is going to core, I wonder why you wouldn't use the same piece of maple from joint to butt ?? Wouldn't that make the hit more like a full splice ?

tim

 

[WilleeCue]

But while on the subject, if one is going to core, I wonder why you wouldn't use the same piece of maple from joint to butt ?? Wouldn't that make the hit more like a full splice ?

tim

Good question Tim, it would make sense that a solid core from joint to bumper would feel more solid than just a cored forearm.

The maple handle would have a 12" front tenon for the forearm sleeve and a 4" tennon for the butt sleeve and cap.
That would give you a fully cored cue with solid wood from joint to bumper.

That is exactly the way this cue is made.
I dont think it feels much different than an non-cored cue.

.

 

[ridewiththewind]

White shaft, dark shaft....it's not the color of the shaft, but the tone and weight of the shaft that makes the difference. If you get a cue with multiple shafts....then they should all be as close in tone and weight as possible.

I do however agree that when Gabon Ebony is used in a cue, and it has a 'flaw'/natural discoloration, it should not be dyed to hide the discoloration...unless the customer specifically requests that the cue maker do so. Otherwise, it should just be left as nature created it.

Lisa

 

[guycrunch]

my joe callaluca daily player is a one piece core from joint to butt cap. the forearm and butt are sleeved over the laminated maple core. this is one of the most solid hitting cues i have ever owned .

guy

 

[penguin]

But while on the subject, if one is going to core, I wonder why you wouldn't use the same piece of maple from joint to butt ?? Wouldn't that make the hit more like a full splice ?

tim

Good question Tim, it would make sense that a solid core from joint to bumper would feel more solid than just a cored forearm.

The maple handle would have a 12" front tenon for the forearm sleeve and a 4" tennon for the butt sleeve and cap.
That would give you a fully cored cue with solid wood from joint to bumper.

Isn't that the way Joss (East) Cues are made?