Good strategy or poor sportsmanship?

I gotta add that I think it's poor sportsmanship as well. I view sharking as poor sportsmanship period in tournaments and leagues. If you're in a money game you can set rules for that stuff or you can walk away from the table. I want a win based on how good they can be and not how bad I can make them be.
 
Are you allowed to excuse yourself to go have a P? In our league, we can take a potty break. You excuse yourself and if your opponent agrees, then play has to stop until you return. Wait until your opponent is almost ready to shoot and ask him if its ok for you to go to the washroom. Other than that, once in awhile, I just turn my back, sip on my beer and socialize with my team mates.
 
This is just like playing poker. Good poker players look for "tells"...things the other players show or do. It could be a physical reaction (facial expression, etc), or verbal. It is just trying to exploit your presumed weakness. Play your own game. Difficult as it is, you can just ignore this behavior, and then just play your best, when it's your turn at the table. Good luck. Remember this...nobody can keep you from performing your best, when you're at the table...except you.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

inside_english said:
I play in an in-house APA 8-ball league every Monday night.
I am a 7.
I had to play a 5.

I play this guy on the weekends sometimes but have always thought he was slow.

Well, last night he was *very* slow, and I suspected he was doing it on purpose. I allowed it to aggravate me to the point of me losing the match. The fact that he cheered when he got a few lucky rolls did nothing for my mood.

Anyway, as I was leaving one of my teammates came to me and said she wasn't going to tell me anything (for fear of what I would say, I suppose) but he had been telling my teammates that he plays slow on purpose when he plays me because he knows it bothers me.

Well, that *really* ticked me off. I said nothing, just quietly went home with steam coming out of my ears. This means that when he would ask me to play on the weekends (which are supposed to be sociable), his intent then was also to aggravate me!

So, did he have a good winning strategy to beat me or was he displaying poor sportsmanship?

It's pretty clear where I stand. And no, I will NEVER play this guy again, unless we cross paths in a tournament.

Feedback always welcome (unless it's from oasisbilliards...LOL)
Click to expand...
 
League play is slow enough as it is, for you to "out slow" him would be bad for everybody on the team and make it less fun than it already is. Just play through it. Bring a book and at least predend you're reading it while he's icing you. But play him on the weekends for money and THEN you can out slow the bas***d :).

Here's an example of how one of the local players got even with someone who was trying to slow play him: you can take your time thinking of what to shoot, then just before you're ready to pull the trigger, put your stick down to go to the bathroom or go back to your seat to wipe down your cue or take a drink - of course restarting your routine. You can have your friends call you on your cell durring your turn and take your time with the call. Since we knew what he was doing before hand, we were in stitches on the rail. :embarrassed2:

And it could be that he just has a lot of respect for your game and is taking a little extra time because he's nervous. But he may be telling others that he's doing it on purpose to save face. You never know.

Good luck,

Dave
 
I agree with 12Squared, if you play slow for a game and notice that he's still playing slow, he may just be trying to focus but is telling others a different story so they don't see HIS weakness (his nerves).
 
Who cares what your opponent does. You can't blame your opponent if you're not ready to play or focused when it's your turn at the table.

It's what's in your head that's the problem. Deal with that and you've got it licked.
 
Allright, I'm gonna share this info that has been hidden in the hustler's bluebook for almost fifty years. Here goes.

If it works use it.
Know how to beat a fast player? Play slow.
Know how to beat a slow player? Play twice as slow as he does.

Use catch phrases to get into your opponent's head. Examples:
On him getting a lucky roll..."Well, you've used up one of your two rolls. One more, and it's my time."

On you getting a lucky roll. "Did you see that? Seriously, did you see that?"

On his slow play. "You are playing faster than normal, aren't you?" This has him wondering about his speed. Questioning.

He misses..."That's so unlike you. You've been watching me, huh?"

Continued slow play? Go to the bathroom after EVERY one of his misses. Trust me on this one.

Make sure he overhears you when you mention that "he's playing over his head. It won't last."

Now, remember only use these when you have been wronged. Otherwise, they are considered dickhead statements. We don't want to be labeled, now do we?
 
Good Advice..........

manwon said:
While this guy certainly sounds like a jerk, you are allowing him to exploit a weakness you should not have in the first place. Anger in any form and pool do not mix, it is really simple, become angry and become a loser.
Anger disrupts your ability think in a rational manner, and ultimately your ability to concentrate.

The way to deal with people like this is to pay no attention to them at all.
When they stall kick back and take a nap, when they miss kick their ass!!!!! Politely with good sportsmanship!!!!!:)
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TAP TAP........

Everybody has their own speed. This guy tends to exagerate his when he plays you because he has found your achiles heal. At least it is during league, does not cost you anything for this lesson. He is actually doing you a favor. He could play you for money and really piss you off. The sooner you learn to control your emotions the better for your pool game.
Besides, you are rated higher, let your pool skills show who is better, not your emotions.
Hope this can help ya out a lil.
 
How true......

crawfish said:
Allright, I'm gonna share this info that has been hidden in the hustler's bluebook for almost fifty years. Here goes.

If it works use it.
Know how to beat a fast player? Play slow.
Know how to beat a slow player? Play twice as slow as he does.

Use catch phrases to get into your opponent's head. Examples:
On him getting a lucky roll..."Well, you've used up one of your two rolls. One more, and it's my time."

On you getting a lucky roll. "Did you see that? Seriously, did you see that?"

On his slow play. "You are playing faster than normal, aren't you?" This has him wondering about his speed. Questioning.

He misses..."That's so unlike you. You've been watching me, huh?"

Continued slow play? Go to the bathroom after EVERY one of his misses. Trust me on this one.

Make sure he overhears you when you mention that "he's playing over his head. It won't last."

Now, remember only use these when you have been wronged. Otherwise, they are considered dickhead statements. We don't want to be labeled, now do we?
Click to expand...
Love this stuff..........weird how head games are a part of gambling in pool. Very true though.;)
 
sixpack said:
Treat it like the game it is and play slower than he does.

If they have TVs, watch TV instead of him shooting. Then glance when he shoots to make sure he doesn't foul, then watch tv again. Wait to shoot until he tells you it's your turn. Then act surprised and if you're playing 8-ball ask him which group you are :)

He'll quit doing it straightaway.

Celebrate his lucky rolls with him. Seriously. "Man, that was a sweet roll, you should have no trouble running out from here." (apply pressure)

And then when he doesn't: "Man, I thought you had that." (negative reinforcement)

And then when he does: "Yep, just like I thought." (diminish his accomplishment)

And then when you get a lucky roll: (Every single time) "I guess it's just my lucky night." (give him a reason to lose... He'll already be running the tape in his head "He got lucky to beat me"... once you give them an excuse to lose, they can't win)

Make sure you say all of these things with a smile and no matter what he says or does, keep smiling. Shake his hand at the end, even if he doesn't want to. Win or lose tell him "great shooting." That'll really piss him off.

If you do all of these, I bet you never lose to him again.

Seriously, if he has to play slow to beat you, you have the nuts. The triple nuts. Everybody knows it but you.

~rc
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Rep to you. That is some good stuff!!!
 
When all else fails, this is on page 344 in the Hustler's handbook. I mean, if EVERY option is used up. Resort to this.

Make sure everyone is watching and spread your arms and fly around the table after every one of his misses. You must throw in airplane noises and talk from the tower. "Upon the miss, you are cleared for landing." Come to a halt. Then, take a bathroom break. Come out soaking wet. Take ten minutes to dry off. Make sure to ask him if you may use his towel. Then run out.

Only do this if, upon his miss, it's an easy runout. You don't want to embarrass yourself.
 
In Vegas-BCA, it's very very common for players to take a lot of time. Great players will take as much as 20 minutes to run out a rack. I remember running out a rack in about 2 minutes and the other team was SHOCKED, like they never saw anyone shoot so fast.

Seriously, you have to learn to adjust to this. Whether his intention is to shark you or not is irrelevant, you're going to run into this.

IMO, especially on league nights, it's important to deter slow play. These league nights often begin after 6pm which provides a very small window to complete the night and get home at a reasonable hour. Slow play is not only holding up THAT match, it's holding up every match afterwards, as well. Complain to the league authorities about this with the overall time in mind.


I find the APA to be filled with a lot of nuts. I even played a guy (s/l 7) who refused to play safe and hated it when his opponents played safe. He said to me, "If you ***ing play safe on me, I'm gonna forfeit the match!" I proceeded to safe him IMMEDIATELY. He forfeited and I said, "Nobody in the world is going to tell me how to play this game."

Slow players are handled a bit differently by me. If their slow-play is intentional, after I beat them, I will not hesitate to bring up their pace. "Wow, you're a bit slow! You should learn to pick up that pace a bit, otherwise your team is gonna be here until 2am!"
 
To the OP...

If someone plays slow because that is their style, so be it.....they should do whatever works and helps them play better....

If they are doing it as a shark move, then they aren't the type of people I want to play......I do think it's poor sportsmanship, I'll let them know it, and I'll make sure I don't play them going forward unless I absolutely have too.....life is too short to waste my time waiting on someone that has no better intention then to try and get under my skin....

I will say that it is a good test of your patience....it's good to learn to play these types of people, take it all in stride, and overcome the shark.....it can really help your mental game and become just another hurdle you can overcome.....also, if his speed is usually a bit faster, it will likely hurt his game as well....

Like Jude said, I also believe there is a shot clock.....if he's sharking you, put his butt on the clock....also, you might speak to his captain about the fact that it's a league and both teams have to work in the morning......
 
Pure poor sportsmanship, no other way around it.

If that's how he plays his best that's another story but the fact that he told your teammate he does it on purpose shows that's not the case. He's a POS and so is anyone else who does that. I wouldn't piss on him if he were burning alive :eek:

I've never been burned by someone like that in the past, I just believe in sportsmanship and respecting your opponent. What he did showed massive disrespect
 
Big Perm said:
To the OP...

If someone plays slow because that is their style, so be it.....they should do whatever works and helps them play better....

If they are doing it as a shark move, then they aren't the type of people I want to play......I do think it's poor sportsmanship, I'll let them know it, and I'll make sure I don't play them going forward unless I absolutely have too.....life is too short to waste my time waiting on someone that has no better intention then to try and get under my skin....

I will say that it is a good test of your patience....it's good to learn to play these types of people, take it all in stride, and overcome the shark.....it can really help your mental game and become just another hurdle you can overcome.....also, if his speed is usually a bit faster, it will likely hurt his game as well....

Like Jude said, I also believe there is a shot clock.....if he's sharking you, put his butt on the clock....also, you might speak to his captain about the fact that it's a league and both teams have to work in the morning......
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Yeah, most APA matches in NYC are played on a single table and play doesn't begin until 7pm. Whenever a team has a slow pace, I'll always remind them to try and stay on top of it. Yes, there is a shot clock but I don't think anyone would want to play under those conditions. I don't mind it when people take a couple minutes to figure out what to do on a shot. It's when the routine becomes drawn out do I remind them that a long match is unfair to everyone.
 
APA team manual has this in a table on page 3.

ADDITIONAL TIME GUIDELINES
Each 8-Ball Team Match 4 Hours
Each 9-Ball Team Match 3 Hours
Each New Player Selection 2 minute limit
Each Coaching 1 minute limit
Average Shot 20 seconds
Special Shooting Situation 45 seconds (maximum)

If someone is abusing these time limits you are allowed to request a timekeeper for the match.
 
I have been against the "slow play" tech. I find the best cure is to play a deep safety. Wait for ball in hand and play safe again. Wait for another ball in hand and play safe. Eventually they say something like this is BS, in which case I remind them that both slow play and continual safeties are both legal but neither are fun. Problem solved.
 
crawfish said:
When all else fails, this is on page 344 in the Hustler's handbook. I mean, if EVERY option is used up. Resort to this.

Make sure everyone is watching and spread your arms and fly around the table after every one of his misses. You must throw in airplane noises and talk from the tower. "Upon the miss, you are cleared for landing." Come to a halt. Then, take a bathroom break. Come out soaking wet. Take ten minutes to dry off. Make sure to ask him if you may use his towel. Then run out.

Only do this if, upon his miss, it's an easy runout. You don't want to embarrass yourself.
Click to expand...

LOL! Love the Airplane!
 
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