Gorina as the Official Cloth

[macguy]

First of all you people, every room in the country is in the minority for catering to players. If the only pool room available to you changes cloth to ipt, are you saying you quit. ha ha ha. Get a clue. Some people cannot go elsewhere, your only responding to what is available to you. 90 percent of the customers paying the money have no clue what cloth they are on. They play on anything. Why in heavens name do most rooms cover their tables with more than one kind? The cheap for the bangers and the expensive for the players. If I decided to change all my tables to nap cloth my business would not suffer, as there is no other game in town and that is how it is in a lot of areas. Now big rooms have the luxury of doing both because they have enough tables but those are far and few between across the nation. So it could happen people, a room owner could force you to play on IPT cloth and if a person has no choice he will play on it. DUH!

It takes very little to lose a customer. Pool is not any necessity in their lives most can take it or leave it, it's just something to do once and a while. Do anything that they don't like and they don't come back. Unless they are hard core players they can go from coming in on a regular basis to not playing at all. If you talk to most players, me included, you'll find they often go for years at a time not playing then take it up again. Customers have to be cultivated, as soon as you think they can't do without you, you will find out differently. I know one place that changed the inside color, they painted it red, and saw such a drop in business the repainted the place in like six weeks.

 

[Gabber]

Ted, you quoted this from the IPT.
"In our testing it was shown that on the same Diamond table, the worsted cloth produced 97 percent of the time at least one ball pocketed."
97 percent ???????????????????????????????????????? I can safely say without any shadow of a doubt this statement is ABSOLUTE BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone who has ever played 8ball knows this to be true. Try it yourself. Shoot a 100 breaks and see how many times you come up dry.

Gabber.......

 

[Gabber]

Ted quoted,

In order to break and run out on the IPT nap cloth you must possess a very powerful break, knowledge of running patterns, pinpoint cue ball control, and incredible accuracy with a powerful stroke. It has been proven that the harder you hit the cue ball the less accurate the shot becomes. These factors dramatically reduce luck.How much luck is there in 8Ball? These conditions will mean that the better player will more consistently win. IPT Tournament Conditions, like the U.S. Open golf conditions, are designed to make luck much less of a factor. Show me the luck factor.To win an IPT ANYTournament, a player must have tremendous physical and mental stamina, ability to handle pressure, knowledge of running patterns, a high degree of accurate shot making, a powerful stroke, a powerful break, and excellent cue ball control. The winner must possess all of these skills. IPT Champions will not be lucky. They will be true athletes who have the mind, knowledge, skills, and physical fitness to be the best.

They are implying that todays champions are just lucky!!!???? What a friggin insult!

Gabber...never applied for the IPT or has any intention of doing so. OK?

 

[nfty9er]

What in the hell are you smokin?

Let me see if I have this straight: You are suggesting that, hypothetically, we have a town where there is only one place to play pool. And that the pool establishment's owner, for some other inexplicable reason, might choose a cloth that is difficult to play on, is only available through select channels, and costs considerably more than other premium cloths. So you are saying, if this bizarre acting room owner chose to install IPT cloth, the town would be forever doomed to play on it. Is that about right?

Just out of curiousity, what percentage of the pool playing population do you think might actually encounter such an unusual place? Also, I wonder, on what planet do you imagine this place existing?

First of all the original question was a hypothetical, so if that is the case any scenario can possibly happen. I guess you missed that point.
To answer you stupid question you will be required to believe their are cities and towns with only one pool room and many with only bars with bar boxes. You think all rooms only install Simonis or Tour championship. More than you even know install slow difficult playing nap cloth. Some have both. It is not beyond the realm of possibility a small room owner buys into the IPT and only wants his customers to play on that cloth so everybody can practice on tournament conditions. What difference does it make if you buy it from a certain company, that is no different than buying any cloth from any company, makes no difference to the room owner and who said IPT cloth is more expensive than any other cloth you choose to install. Have you seen outlandish prices that I don't know about? Simonis is so expensive now nobody in their right mind will install it on all tables. And I am a room owner and the only place in town. The closest to me is 40 miles and if I thought it would be beneficial to me to have slower cloth I would do it in a heartbeat. Customers that bring in the most money could care less and are out to have a good time for recreation. You cannot survive on whiny players that will only play on a certain cloth. If you are force to play on slow cloth you will and it is not the end of the world. What the hell do you think people played on in the past before Simonis 860. I grew up on slow cloth, no big deal. Do you honestly think there multiple pool rooms in all towns around the country. For every customer you lose for whatever reason there is one to take their place that likes what you did, just as long as you treat them with respect and let them enjoy themselves.
Doomed to play on it? What a joke. How many thousands of people play on slow bar cloth in leagues daily. Are they doomed? They are having a ball. I have played in tournaments that had 3 different types of cloth and had to play on each condition. Adjust and don't whine.

 

[nfty9er]

Thats the point

It takes very little to lose a customer. Pool is not any necessity in their lives most can take it or leave it, it's just something to do once and a while. Do anything that they don't like and they don't come back. Unless they are hard core players they can go from coming in on a regular basis to not playing at all. If you talk to most players, me included, you'll find they often go for years at a time not playing then take it up again. Customers have to be cultivated, as soon as you think they can't do without you, you will find out differently. I know one place that changed the inside color, they painted it red, and saw such a drop in business the repainted the place in like six weeks.

People can take it or leave it, they could care less about the cloth. Do you think people stop playing on bar tables at the bars because of slow cloth. Hell most are terrible but thousands of people are playing. I grew up on slow cloth , big deal, I could handle it again. I have played in tournaments with 3 different types at once. I really cannot believe painting a room red would drive out customers. Did you know that is the most popular color for bars with the decor or carpet as psycologically it makes you drink more. That is a proven fact over the years. Of course the lighting should be dim. You are talking about players that dedicate a lot of time to the game, thats fine but those are a mere fractionf of the pool business. You know you make most of your money on the weekends with the party animals, ball bangers, and people out for a good time. The cloth does not affect them at all but it does affect me because they abuse it all the time so most do not deserve $175 a table cloth.

 

[macguy]

People can take it or leave it, they could care less about the cloth. Do you think people stop playing on bar tables at the bars because of slow cloth. Hell most are terrible but thousands of people are playing. I grew up on slow cloth , big deal, I could handle it again. I have played in tournaments with 3 different types at once. I really cannot believe painting a room red would drive out customers. Did you know that is the most popular color for bars with the decor or carpet as psycologically it makes you drink more. That is a proven fact over the years. Of course the lighting should be dim. You are talking about players that dedicate a lot of time to the game, thats fine but those are a mere fractionf of the pool business. You know you make most of your money on the weekends with the party animals, ball bangers, and people out for a good time. The cloth does not affect them at all but it does affect me because they abuse it all the time so most do not deserve $175 a table cloth.

One of the first things you ALWAYS hear when a new player used to crappy bar tables comes in is how nice the tables are. Fast, they can draw the ball the game is really fun compared to the slow crap in the bars. The great quality of the tables is what brings them back. Many have trouble playing on the bigger tables yet they come back over and over because the tables play so beautifully and it is really fun.

Your comment that for every customer that leaves one comes in to take their place is ridiculous. You will have hundreds of different customers come and go before you pick up one that becomes a dependable regular. No customer can be taken for granted. That's the difference between just making a living and a gold mine. Many business owners who think they are doing well just don't know the difference, they have never really made real money and it may be their own fault. Very very few business reach their real potential due to bad management. Success is not just the act of avoiding going broke.

 

[tedkaufman]

Ted quoted,


They are implying that todays champions are just lucky!!!???? What a friggin insult! Luck is always a factor in pool games. I've been playing pool for 40 years, and I have never played a game that didn't involve some luck. It's even a significant factor in 14.1, but far more so in 9-ball and 8-ball. How often after winning an event have you heard a player say, "I got the rolls." What the IPT is attempting to do is minimize the luck factor.

Gabber...never applied for the IPT or has any intention of doing so. OK?

I think that is quite evident. Yet you persist in complaining how they set up their conditions, which you never intend to participate in. Why is that?

 

[tedkaufman]

First of all the original question was a hypothetical, so if that is the case any scenario can possibly happen. I guess you missed that point.
To answer you stupid question you will be required to believe their are cities and towns with only one pool room and many with only bars with bar boxes. You think all rooms only install Simonis or Tour championship. More than you even know install slow difficult playing nap cloth. Some have both. It is not beyond the realm of possibility a small room owner buys into the IPT and only wants his customers to play on that cloth so everybody can practice on tournament conditions. What difference does it make if you buy it from a certain company, that is no different than buying any cloth from any company, makes no difference to the room owner and who said IPT cloth is more expensive than any other cloth you choose to install. Have you seen outlandish prices that I don't know about? Simonis is so expensive now nobody in their right mind will install it on all tables. And I am a room owner and the only place in town. The closest to me is 40 miles and if I thought it would be beneficial to me to have slower cloth I would do it in a heartbeat. Customers that bring in the most money could care less and are out to have a good time for recreation. You cannot survive on whiny players that will only play on a certain cloth. If you are force to play on slow cloth you will and it is not the end of the world. What the hell do you think people played on in the past before Simonis 860. I grew up on slow cloth, no big deal. Do you honestly think there multiple pool rooms in all towns around the country. For every customer you lose for whatever reason there is one to take their place that likes what you did, just as long as you treat them with respect and let them enjoy themselves.
Doomed to play on it? What a joke. How many thousands of people play on slow bar cloth in leagues daily. Are they doomed? They are having a ball. I have played in tournaments that had 3 different types of cloth and had to play on each condition. Adjust and don't whine.

You were the one doing the whinning when you said everyone would have to play on slow nappy cloth because that's what the IPT chose for their tournaments. (Here's your quote in case you forgot: "If the IPT is successful, we are all doomed to play forever on crappy, nappy cloth, in a world where ball-bangers rule."
) What's become more evident, however, is you are too cheap to put a quality material on your tables.

 

[3kushn]

Gorino "M" is great cloth for 3 cushion. IMO better than Simonis.
Gorino pool cloth seems to be a similar quality as the carom cloth. (I don't Play the game.)
The only complaint I've heard is that it's Too Fast. IMO no such thing, but the attitude forced the room owner to go back to the nap for the bangers.

Too bad. They may never learn what it's like. It's kinda like being used to palying sand lot baseball then playing on a professional baseball field. Guess what they don't know won't hurt you.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Gorino "M" is great cloth for 3 cushion. IMO better than Simonis.
Gorino pool cloth seems to be a similar quality as the carom cloth. (I don't Play the game.)
The only complaint I've heard is that it's Too Fast. IMO no such thing, but the attitude forced the room owner to go back to the nap for the bangers.

Too bad. They may never learn what it's like. It's kinda like being used to playing sand lot baseball then playing on a professional baseball field. Guess what they don't know won't hurt you.

I have to disagree here. 3C needs fast cloth because you are sending the ball 3 or more cushions. In pool, you need to be able to do very tiny, miniscule ticky tack shots for safeties where you just nudge a ball or go off a ball to hide. I have been very shocked and disappointed that on extremely fast tables, the same tiny stroke brings the cueball out WAY more and sells out.

You lose the intricacies of pool on too fast of cloth. On the other hand, with extremely slow cloth, you lose something there too in trying to move your ball around, which can favor males to be able to muscle it around and break. A happy medium can be achieved. Hopefully, it will be IPT cloth speed, especially before it gets worn in, lol.

 

[Gabber]

First Ted said,
"Lastly, what is your problem with the IPT and KT? Are you upset they didn't invite you to play?".

I replied,
"...never applied for the IPT or has any intention of doing so. OK?"

Ted comes back with,
"I think that is quite evident. Yet you persist in complaining how they set up their conditions, which you never intend to participate in. Why is that?".


The fact that I am not in the IPT nor do I have any intention of trying to qualify makes me NEUTRAL ie objective. Whats your motivation for blindly swallowing the IPT BS?

BTW, you never answered my question.
Do you believe that this statement from the IPT,
"In our testing it was shown that on the same Diamond table, the worsted cloth produced 97 percent of the time at least one ball pocketed.", .......is true?

Gabber

 

[tedkaufman]

First Ted said,
"Lastly, what is your problem with the IPT and KT? Are you upset they didn't invite you to play?".

I replied,
"...never applied for the IPT or has any intention of doing so. OK?"

Ted comes back with,
"I think that is quite evident. Yet you persist in complaining how they set up their conditions, which you never intend to participate in. Why is that?".


The fact that I am not in the IPT nor do I have any intention of trying to qualify makes me NEUTRAL ie objective. Whats your motivation for blindly swallowing the IPT BS?

BTW, you never answered my question.
Do you believe that this statement from the IPT,
"In our testing it was shown that on the same Diamond table, the worsted cloth produced 97 percent of the time at least one ball pocketed.", .......is true?

Gabber

Do I believe that on worsted cloth a pro player would make a ball on the break 97% of the time? That seems high, actually. My guess would be closer to 75-80%. But that is a guess, not a study. What is certain, though, the percentage, whatever it is, would be much higher on fast worsted cloth than it would be on slow nap cloth. And that is the whole point.

Do I believe everything the IPT puts out? Well, I lived for 25 years in NYC, so I am naturally at least somewhat skeptical whenever someone makes a pitch for anything. So, no, I don't always buy everything the IPT says.

However, on the issue of playing conditions for the IPT table setup, I have had first hand experience, and I have no doubt whatsoever that their setup puts more pressure on a player's game.

My friends Sammy and Laurie John Jones have a table set up in their showroom which they use for practice for the IPT. The table is an Olhausen, not a Diamond, since they are Olhausen dealers. But otherwise, it has the same cloth (Mali nap, soon to be replaced by Gorina) and 4.5" pockets, as the IPT conditions.

Here are some observations I've made after playing 8-ball and 14.1 for several hours: One, in straight pool, a typical breakshot does not open the full rack. Almost always, it's necessary to go into the stack a 2nd or 3rd time. On Simonis 860, with an identical breakshot, the balls will open up like a sun-starved flower on a spring morning. Two, it requires a considerably better stroke to move the cueball; you can't get away with a short punch stroke to move the cueball longer distances. Three, because the nap cloth is not as smooth as 860, a player takes a risk any time he slow-rolls a ball any distance. This is something I always hated about nap cloth. (That's all I used to play on 20 years ago.) So, to be sure of the ball rolling true, a player will have to hit the shots harder and walk the cueball to positions he could gently roll it on Simonis 860. That puts more pressure on a player's game, because it is a lot more difficult to stroke a shot with a dead cueball and walk it exactly 6" than it is to gently roll it that distance. But that is the whole idea. These conditions are intended to be difficult and to ratchet up the pressure on a player's game. After playing on this table for several hours, I think the setup conditions are excellent for the intended purpose. The pocket size is fair, but not easy. The cloth is playable, but requires more skill. On balance, I think the IPT has done a great job with the playing conditions.

 

[jsp]

...Here are some observations I've made after playing 8-ball and 14.1 for several hours: One, in straight pool, a typical breakshot does not open the full rack. Almost always, it's necessary to go into the stack a 2nd or 3rd time. On Simonis 860, with an identical breakshot, the balls will open up like a sun-starved flower on a spring morning. Two, it requires a considerably better stroke to move the cueball; you can't get away with a short punch stroke to move the cueball longer distances. Three, because the nap cloth is not as smooth as 860, a player takes a risk any time he slow-rolls a ball any distance. This is something I always hated about nap cloth. (That's all I used to play on 20 years ago.) So, to be sure of the ball rolling true, a player will have to hit the shots harder and walk the cueball to positions he could gently roll it on Simonis 860. That puts more pressure on a player's game, because it is a lot more difficult to stroke a shot with a dead cueball and walk it exactly 6" than it is to gently roll it that distance. But that is the whole idea. These conditions are intended to be difficult and to ratchet up the pressure on a player's game. After playing on this table for several hours, I think the setup conditions are excellent for the intended purpose. The pocket size is fair, but not easy. The cloth is playable, but requires more skill. On balance, I think the IPT has done a great job with the playing conditions.

I think you nailed it right on the head. I think this is the whole intended purpose for the IPT using slower cloth. Sure, some may think these playing conditions are "less ideal", but it surely does bring about a different game than what you'd play on fast cloth. And yes, I also buy the fact that this "different" game is much more challenging to master. Therefore, the stronger players will come out on top. Again, that's the whole point of this slow cloth.

 

[IPT-hopeful]

Why the sarcastic criticisms?

It just seems strange to me that there exists so many people out there ever so quick to criticize IPT, all in the name of appearing "balanced" in their viewpoints? And the rest of us should just listen and pretend nothing was said? Try constructive criticism, if you really must criticize, which is to remove pointless sarcasm in favour of fair comment that might mean something useful.

As explained quite clearly, tough conditions are going to bring out the best players. No quibble there. Slow cloth, tight pockets, round robins and all are imo doing just that. Why go on about whether it's going to affect the rest of the pool playing world where you know it won't? Just take it that that's the tough conditions called for in a tour called IPT. If you don't think it's tough, then try to qualify and play on it yourself. Or if you're too high handed to do so, ask some IPT players (the ones that did win tournaments recently) what the conditions are like. Wouldn't that be more constructive? Rather than get hot headed and abusive cuz your comments were disagreed with?

What I find missing in these discussions, is something the whole IPT idea hinted at, but hasn't been taken up when it should be, a point I'm gonna make:

If the IPT business model intends to create a successful tour where such large payouts are possible, primarily due to TV marketing, why has other televised tournaments and existing tours been able to payout so much less? From what is known, pool viewership is on the increase worldwide, so what happened to all that money?

 

[Gabber]

It just seems strange to me that there exists so many people out there ever so quick to criticize IPT, all in the name of appearing "balanced" in their viewpoints? And the rest of us should just listen and pretend nothing was said? The rest of us?????????? You have 4 posts to your name and you feel confident to speak for the WHOLE board? Does that sound 'balanced'to you? LOLTry constructive criticism, if you really must criticize, which is to remove pointless sarcasm in favour of fair comment that might mean something useful. Tell them to stop the BSing. That would be constructive.

As explained quite clearly, LMAO tough conditions are going to bring out the best players. If the conditions and the format favour the best players, why should club players finance the wages of the top players thru mini Ts and such, when they have no chance of winning any significant cash? If you are not in the top 75, you will only, maybe, break even!No quibble there. Slow cloth, tight pockets, round robins and all are imo doing just that. Why go on about whether it's going to affect the rest of the pool playing world where you know it won't? Just take it that that's the tough conditions called for in a tour called IPT. If you don't think it's tough, then try to qualify and play on it yourself. I believe you, it is tough.Or if you're too high handed to do so, ask some IPT players (the ones that did win tournaments recently) what the conditions are like. Wouldn't that be more constructive? Rather than get hot headed and abusive cuz your comments were disagreed with? You will have to forgive OPC. He can be hot-headed and at times he can be abusive, but his heart is in the right place.. LOL

What I find missing in these discussions, is something the whole IPT idea hinted at, but hasn't been taken up when it should be, a point I'm gonna make:

If the IPT business model intends to create a successful tour where such large payouts are possible, primarily due to TV marketing, why has other televised tournaments and existing tours been able to payout so much less? From what is known, pool viewership is on the increase worldwide, so what happened to all that money?

If you are a 'hopeful', which qualy have you entered.

Large payouts in golf/other sports come from sponsers, not from the club player.

The IPT just recently picked up roughly $500,000 in qualifiying money for 6 spots for a tour that doesnt even exist yet![ those spots, according to the IPT cost in total $12,000- what happened to the other $488,000 ? ]

A round robin format offers the LEAST chance to the hopeful amateur/semi-pro against the top players. Think about it.

If KT had had a few tournys and paid everything himself and THEN had the Qs, I might have a little more faith.
The facts are that the tour has been posponed for 6 months throwing other tours into disaray[ and postponment], despite them saying they would co-operate with other tournaments- ie the US Open and we all know how that went down!

This says everything.
In 2005, the IPT said only the top 75 in each tournament got paid.
In 2006, the IPT said that anyone in the IPT 150 [ season 2007] will earn a minimum of $100,000! ........................and they havent had a tournament yet!

I do agree with KT tho about the format for the show. What makes sport interesting is not just the technical exellence/the sport, its the personalities.
Why does everyone love to watch Earl?
Gabber....

 

[IPT-hopeful]

If you are a 'hopeful', which qualy have you entered. I don't think anyone's interested in which qualifier i've been in. That's not the point here, I'm not here to explain my handle

Large payouts in golf/other sports come from sponsers, not from the club player Really? And when golf/other sports were yet to feature in mainstream TV, exactly where did the sponsors come from? What was their incentive to invest in that sport? LOL I think you might want to rethink your business plan? The point is this : if the entry fees were $1 or say free, how many people do you think would have tried for the slots? How long would it have taken? Best of all, would you want to be the organiser for that qualifier? Or the room owner for that matter?.

The IPT just recently picked up roughly $500,000 in qualifiying money for 6 spots for a tour that doesnt even exist yet![ those spots, according to the IPT cost in total $12,000- what happened to the other $488,000 ? ] Are you trying to put a case for someone to dump millions into a sport and reap nothing out of it? Is it not commonplace in just about every other tournament to use entry fees as part of prize money or do you expect IPT to just hand over the money? Just as a comparison, what proportion of total prize money paid out so far does the 488K make up compared to the tournaments you're used to hearing about? LOL

A round robin format offers the LEAST chance to the hopeful amateur/semi-pro against the top players. Think about it. True, but remember two things. This is a pro-tour to bring out the best, and there are LOTS of great players worldwide, you and I just haven't seen them in action yet. And what's to prevent promising semi-pros from pushing themselves to bridge your perceived gap in standards, for a chance to change their lives thru playing pool? Are you saying upsets will not happen in this format? I don't think you'll bet on that, without odds given.

If KT had had a few tournys and paid everything himself and THEN had the Qs, I might have a little more faith. Are you for real? LOL. If you were the guy putting up the finances, would you do just that without attempting to collect back a fraction of payouts? Come on.
The facts are that the tour has been posponed for 6 months throwing other tours into disaray[ and postponment], despite them saying they would co-operate with other tournaments- ie the US Open and we all know how that went down!

This says everything.
In 2005, the IPT said only the top 75 in each tournament got paid.
In 2006, the IPT said that anyone in the IPT 150 [ season 2007] will earn a minimum of $100,000! ........................and they havent had a tournament yet!

I do agree with KT tho about the format for the show. What makes sport interesting is not just the technical exellence/the sport, its the personalities.
Why does everyone love to watch Earl?
Gabber....

What does my meagre 4 posts have to do with anything? Are you saying the more you post, the more "balance" or say you have in this forum? LOL. Why not just consider the point, rather than the quantity of it?

 

[DaveK]

If the IPT business model intends to create a successful tour where such large payouts are possible, primarily due to TV marketing, why has other televised tournaments and existing tours been able to payout so much less? From what is known, pool viewership is on the increase worldwide, so what happened to all that money?

Some tournaments pay the networks for their air time. You are assuming that when an event is on TV the network pays significant money to the producer/promoter, and that money might in turn be paid out as part of the tournament prize fund. This is not always the case.

Dave

 

[IPT-hopeful]

Some tournaments pay the networks for their air time. You are assuming that when an event is on TV the network pays significant money to the producer/promoter, and that money might in turn be paid out as part of the tournament prize fund. This is not always the case.

Dave

That's exactly the point, Dave. If no one watches the matches, I can understand from a networks or game promoter's point of view that it would make sense to pay for air time. But from many sources including IPT's recent broadcasts of the Sigel-Jones match, viewership is far from lacking. As for other better known tournaments, the trend has always been upwards too, especially in Europe and Asia. Someone or some people are making a lot of money off the players' performances, and it aint the players. Add to that advertising revenue (every one of the tournaments aired had loads of advertising from big guns) and you're talking about big bucks that is somehow invisible to the pool world so far. Talk about being taken for a ride, and no one seems to be taking up the issue?

 

[Cuebacca]

First let me disclaim my response by admitting that I've not played on brand new nap cloth very much. Also, I'm about a B+ ish player, so I'm not pretending to be any type of expert. Just trying to add another perspective for whatever its worth. This is just my opinion...

Nap cloth is slower, less responsive, and has more surface defects than worsted wool cloth, thus making it more difficult to play on. However I don't think that automatically makes it the better choice, nor favorable to the better player necessarily.

Again, I cannot speak for the pros, but at MY level, I would certainly feel like a less-skilled player had a better chance to beat me on nap cloth than they would on worsted wool.

I don't know if this next one is a fair analogy or not, but.. what about race cars.. does it favor the better driver to make everyone drive a less responsive vehicle, such as a Yugo? No, the high end race cars are used because they are more responsive, more sensitive to the drivers fine touch. You can simply do more with a high performance car and it takes skills to take full advantage of its performance. Imparing everyone through "inferior" equipment does not seem to favor the better driver. It just drops everyone's ability to perform. (at least in this analogy, IMO)

In my view, "difficult conditions" has more than one category. In one category, you have pocket size, playing surface dimensions, choice of game and format. In another category, you have equipment quality, such as rubber responsiveness, slate levelness, shape of cue tip, staightness of cue, etc. Perhaps a third category might be external factors, such as pressure from being on TV, or distractions from fans (example, basketball freethrows).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that at some point the "difficult conditions" argument breaks down. What if they had to play with completely dead rails, broom handles for cues, tables with one leg higher than the other three, and the opponent can toss grapes at the shooter from his chair? Obviously those difficult conditions are far exaggerated to the point of being rediculous, but things are not black and white. Even tight pockets would have their limit, in my opinion. Would 2.3" pockets favor the better player? IMO, no; it would just make everyone miss when they "shouldn't".

Anyway, it probably sounds like I'm bashing the IPT, which is not my intent. I salute the IPT for having the guts and vision to try to change pool for the better, and I hope it all works out well for everyone. I am happy for the players who made it onto the tour and I hope that everyone who deserves to makes it gets on as well. They can use whatever cloth they want, that's their prerogative. It would be silly (IMO) for a pro to abstain from the IPT solely because of the equipment, and its even in their best interest, for a number of reasons, not to complain or obsess about it if they don't like it.

The previous posters have added some interesting opinions favoring the nap cloth, and I respect those opinions and have learned from them.

Sorry for the long post. Again, just my opinion, which is subject to change at any time.

 

[IPT-hopeful]

..Nap cloth is slower, less responsive, and has more surface defects than worsted wool cloth, thus making it more difficult to play on. However I don't think that automatically makes it the better choice, nor favorable to the better player necessarily.

Again, I cannot speak for the pros, but at MY level, I would certainly feel like a less-skilled player had a better chance to beat me on nap cloth than they would on worsted wool.

I don't know if this next one is a fair analogy or not, but.. what about race cars.. does it favor the better driver to make everyone drive a less responsive vehicle, such as a Yugo? No, the high end race cars are used because they are more responsive, more sensitive to the drivers fine touch. You can simply do more with a high performance car and it takes skills to take full advantage of its performance. Imparing everyone through "inferior" equipment does not seem to favor the better driver. It just drops everyone's ability to perform. (at least in this analogy, IMO)...

I think you have made a fair point there, just not sure what the "sensitive" parameter here is. eg if the tables are fast and easier to play on, then the "sensitive" parameter here might be the difficulty of having to stroke the balls firmer and yet pot balls in relatively tight pockets on slow nap tables. Of course you could argue that fast cloth requires a sensitive touch too, but I think the traditional simonis used makes it easier, not harder, to move the cueball around the table. Unless of course they start using such fast cloth as for 3 cushion billiards which behaves like glass. Now that would just distract players from the game and worry about overdoing shots all the time, plus all the slow rolling with minimal stroke movement doesn't make good TV viewership. IMO