Gorina as the Official Cloth

[Jimmy M.]

Golf plays tournies on faster greens as does lawn bowls, snooker on faster cloths, I figure ice-skaters on faster rinks. Still not sure I see the logic of playing pool tournies on slower cloths...especially 8-ball where CB power is not of primary importance.

I suspect the decision to use nap cloth went something like this:

Sigel: Hey Kevin. If these young whipper snappers had to play on the cloth I used to play on, they'd all be in trouble. The game is easy now. That's why you see all these players that are so-called champions. Back in my day, we used to walk to the pool room in the snow! Bare foot! Up Hill! Both ways!

Kevin: Well, Mike, you're the expert on pool. I'm just the expert on everything else. You think we ought to make these young punks play on that cloth and show them what REAL POOL is all about?

Sigel: Absolutely! Now we'll see who the best in the world is. Everyone thinks I'm past my prime but, the truth is, the fast cloth has just made the game so easy that these chumps can compete with me!

Kevin: Consider it done.

 

[pool]

Has anyone played with Gorina cloth? If yes, what is your opinion with the cloth that the IPT has decided to go with?

Just curious as a room operator.

John

Our local room has Gorina on the main table. I don't know if it is because it wasn't installed well (loose, then restretched a month later), but I don't really like it. Don't get me wrong, it is some of the fastest cloth I have ever seen on a pool table. Ridiculously fast. The balls roll forever even when the look like they are about to stop. Maybe that is what I don't like because you need to stroke so softly that the ball rolls off really easily. Granted, this is a table flaw, but wasn't as noticeable with Simonis. I really like the speed of well-installed Simonis 860. I know Gorina was more expensive thatn Simonis...

 

[shinyballs]

I had Gorina installed on my old 8' table once. I can't remember which kind, but I do remember that it played way too fast, although it did wear as well as simonis.

I agree that this is all because of Mike Sigel. It sucks.

I'm going to be recovering my GC soon and I'm considering going with Championship or something other than Simonis due its limited lifetime.

If anyone has any suggestions, please reply.

 

[Nostroke]

I suspect the decision to use nap cloth went something like this:

Sigel: Hey Kevin. If these young whipper snappers had to play on the cloth I used to play on, they'd all be in trouble. The game is easy now. That's why you see all these players that are so-called champions. Back in my day, we used to walk to the pool room in the snow! Bare foot! Up Hill! Both ways!

Kevin: Well, Mike, you're the expert on pool. I'm just the expert on everything else. You think we ought to make these young punks play on that cloth and show them what REAL POOL is all about?

Sigel: Absolutely! Now we'll see who the best in the world is. Everyone thinks I'm past my prime but, the truth is, the fast cloth has just made the game so easy that these chumps can compete with me!

Kevin: Consider it done.

Yeah exactly-Of course you have to throw in the no jump sticks, tight pockets etc stuff too.

Kevin gotta be the first one to listen to Mike in years!

 

[8-ball bernie]

it seems to me that 95% of players in the pool rooms around america are inexperienced, and wouldn't know the difference between slow cloth or fast cloth and also wouldn't care.

 

[Jimmy M.]

it seems to me that 95% of players in the pool rooms around america are inexperienced, and wouldn't know the difference between slow cloth or fast cloth and also wouldn't care.

The problem is that 95% of the room owners around America DO know the difference and they are the ones making the decision whether to use worsted or nap cloth. We can argue this forever, but KT will have a hell of a time trying to convince the masses that nap cloth is the way to go.

 

[thebestpoolroom]

The problem is that 95% of the room owners around America DO know the difference and they are the ones making the decision whether to use worsted or nap cloth. We can argue this forever, but KT will have a hell of a time trying to convince the masses that nap cloth is the way to go.

Hi Jimmy,

You are absolutely correct! We will never use the slow nappy cloth as our official cloth.

John

 

[Colin Colenso]

I suspect the decision to use nap cloth went something like this:

Sigel: Hey Kevin. If these young whipper snappers had to play on the cloth I used to play on, they'd all be in trouble. The game is easy now. That's why you see all these players that are so-called champions. Back in my day, we used to walk to the pool room in the snow! Bare foot! Up Hill! Both ways!

Kevin: Well, Mike, you're the expert on pool. I'm just the expert on everything else. You think we ought to make these young punks play on that cloth and show them what REAL POOL is all about?

Sigel: Absolutely! Now we'll see who the best in the world is. Everyone thinks I'm past my prime but, the truth is, the fast cloth has just made the game so easy that these chumps can compete with me!

Kevin: Consider it done.

I wouldn't be surprised if it started out a bit like that, but Kevin, while I'm sure he's not infallible, has proven himself to be a very smart marketer. I'm sure he has thought more deeply into the issue.

If we look at his other products, such as Mega Memory and Natural Cures, he seems to like to swing for the fences with products that tend to go against the grain of existing standards. So by going with a different kind of cloth, he could make the brand more distinctive.

But as others have commented, this may be a much harder sell to industry than it is to the average Joe. But if average Joes start asking for IPT cloth on their tables, sellers may begin change their minds.

Amyway, still very curious to hear how this chosen cloth plays...how it grips/slides at the rails and what speed it plays compared to new simonis 860.

 

[JPAlexis]

pool Table cloth

I owned a 21 table pool hall for 10 years. When a new customer would ask me about cloth, they would always say they wanted Simonis. When I would ask what kind? They would say Simonis.
Simonis has 3 different pool table cloths (760, 860, and carded). They have 2 carom cloths and they may have two different snooker cloths. Granito has Basalt, Tournament 2000, carded for pool tables, snooker and A and M Carom cloth. The difference between the Simonis and Granito if you used the similar grade was that Granito was a touch faster and wore slightly better. That means there is not much difference at all. I stated to buy bolts from Gorina, only because their customer service was more friendly and better.
If the IPT is going to use a nap cloth, I believe they will use the Snooker cloth as it has a nap and is slower.
For any ones information, I put Championship 3030 tour Edition on one table, It played a touch faster than Simonis 860, but really wore well. I would suggest maybe 30-40% more usability. The color faded and didn't look good. When the customers asked what it was, they thought I was lying and that it was Simonis 860. They would say, "Well it plays like Simonis."
The first time I played on Simonis was in 1989 and it was 760, I don't think they made 860 yet. I was shocked as I could not control any shot and I felt they had put green newspaper on top of the slate. It was so fast. Gradually I got used to it and preferred it. I felt you had to have better touch, better control. I think the slow cloth is very easy to get used to compared to the faster worsted wool cloth. The worsted wool cloths cost 3 times as much as the carded cloth.

JP ALEXIS

 

[MikeJanis]

My personal favorite from a BUSINESS point of view, is Championship Tour Edition. Although not quite as fast as Simonis it lasts TWICE (maybe more) as long in the abusive enviroment of a typical pool room. Just my $.02

..........


Mj

 

[juegabillar]

I suspect the decision to use nap cloth went something like this:

Sigel: Hey Kevin. If these young whipper snappers had to play on the cloth I used to play on, they'd all be in trouble. The game is easy now. That's why you see all these players that are so-called champions. Back in my day, we used to walk to the pool room in the snow! Bare foot! Up Hill! Both ways!

Kevin: Well, Mike, you're the expert on pool. I'm just the expert on everything else. You think we ought to make these young punks play on that cloth and show them what REAL POOL is all about?

Sigel: Absolutely! Now we'll see who the best in the world is. Everyone thinks I'm past my prime but, the truth is, the fast cloth has just made the game so easy that these chumps can compete with me!

Kevin: Consider it done.

Excellent! I'm sure that's exactly what transpired.....

 

[Scottster]

Notice the Trend?

Game of choice: 8 Ball

Type of cloth: Nap

Hmmm, sounds like parts of the game that every drunk banjo playing inbred that thinks they can play pool, because they can make a ball by hitting the cue ball mach 1, and go 9 rails for "shape?" has in common with their game.
Whats the next announcement?
The IPT has decided to use the 3 1/2' X 7' Diamond smart tables.
Just because someone has a bunch of money doesn't mean they are best for "The Game" .

IPT "International PImpin' Tour" you thought the players were whored out before? Just wait, now you are gonna have the top players playing only because of the big money involved. Oh, wait, its not the top players, they still have to pay the pimp to get on the street corner via "OPEN" tournaments.

 

[Subsonic2u]

IPL and Worst(ed) cloth

I get the IPL newsletter and saw their attempt at promoting the worst(ed) cloth available. They seem to insinuate that only the old time players have a good stroke and can play on that slow cloth. Not so. All pro players worth a hill of beans have a good stroke. The only thing it does is discriminate againt the women who do not have the arm strength of the male players. Just look at how many women have won spots/qualified for the tour. Even those like Allison Fisher and Karen Corr can't play all day and all night on that slow cloth. On a fast cloth all good players can compete equally, u don't have to have a strong arm to slam the Q ball to get a ton of spin. I have seen a local tournament go to 18 hours non-stop and that is tireing on anyones arm and body. I was dead tired just staying up and watching.

I just wonder how much of a kick back the IPL big shots are getting to try to BRING BACK a slow cloth that no one uses and no one likes. Slow cloth is a thing of the past and should be left in the past. I remember the old cars that u had to hand crank to start. I sure don't want to bring them back either. Some things are best left in the past.

I play in 4 leagues in 2 counties. There is only 1 place in that entire area that has a (1) slow cloth table. Every time we go there to play, all u hear is *****ing from all the players. Even the home team. All the bar rooms, clubs, and pool halls use a fast cloth, and most use Simonis 860/or similiar cloth. I don't know of any places in my area that are even considering changing to slow cloth. I know I'll never have it on my table at home.

I am, however glad to c that pool is finally getting some good prize money for the players. Now they will b able to support themselves. All other pro sports have had big prize money for years. Bout time.

 

[rackemfr9ball]

The Championship Tour Edition also looks better and gets less tears or holes in the cloth than Simonis or Granito.

Mj

Thanks MJ, and anyone else that gives 3030 Tour Edition a positive response.

But we are on a Woolen topic. We at Championship make a VERY good quality 21 oz WOOLEN called TITAN that does NOT pill like... most. Im not even sure this cloth was tested by the IPT but its the #1 choice in homes across the US!! #1!! We have more 21 oz woolen cloth in the market place than anyone in the Industry... Why use Gorina, show me quality, show me a room owner that WANTS to put this product on their tables... I tried getting Titan the time of day with the IPT, no response! Mr Siegel is much bigger than I...

 

[BlackDragon]

I just find playing on a faster cloth that rails are more important for position and theres more chance of the cueball going in.
On slower cloth, I play the cloth more for direction as spin grips on the cloth.
On fast tables the cueball just slides.
On slower tables, it curves.
I like playing slower cloth because its more precise.
I think it does separates a players ability.
I think they got it right.

 

[jjinfla]

Hi Gerald,

We are having the same problem at The Pool Room in Marietta, GA. where we hosted the IPT qualifier. Most of the pool players and our regulars hate it.
John

One of your regulars, Art Robin, is visiting down here and he told me he didn't like it.

But, were the players in the tournament really complaining thaat much about it?

Jake

 

[Timberly]

were the players in the tournament really complaining thaat much about it?

Jake

Considering these guys were doing everything they could to get onto the IPT, I seriously doubt that they're going to publicly say a negative word about anything involved with the IPT.

The simple fact that George Breedlove (and others) had to bring in a lint roller should tell you something. Most pool players don't like anything interfering with their game or their momentum. Having to stop and use the lint roller on the table while you're trying to play the best pool of your life... I'd bet the farm that the players hated it.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Considering these guys were doing everything they could to get onto the IPT, I seriously doubt that they're going to publicly say a negative word about anything involved with the IPT.

The simple fact that George Breedlove (and others) had to bring in a lint roller should tell you something. Most pool players don't like anything interfering with their game or their momentum. Having to stop and use the lint roller on the table while you're trying to play the best pool of your life... I'd bet the farm that the players hated it.

Could be a new pool tool to market. I could be sponsored by the AAA Lint Roller - the best picker upper since caffeine, speed, or that hot guy in the bar last night, lol

 

[Colin Colenso]

Not all nap cloths pile up. Hopefully this Gorina tourney cloth cloth with have a smooth, albeit higher friction surface.

The point in the IPT press release that the slower cloth makes break and runs harder is a fair point, and certainly golf is an example of a game where the highest profile events are usually played on the longest and toughest courses.

The other option would to reduce run out percentages would be to tighten the pockets even more...to around 4 to 4.25".

 

[sniper]

I suspect the decision to use nap cloth went something like this:

Sigel: Hey Kevin. If these young whipper snappers had to play on the cloth I used to play on, they'd all be in trouble. The game is easy now. That's why you see all these players that are so-called champions. Back in my day, we used to walk to the pool room in the snow! Bare foot! Up Hill! Both ways!

Kevin: Well, Mike, you're the expert on pool. I'm just the expert on everything else. You think we ought to make these young punks play on that cloth and show them what REAL POOL is all about?

Sigel: Absolutely! Now we'll see who the best in the world is. Everyone thinks I'm past my prime but, the truth is, the fast cloth has just made the game so easy that these chumps can compete with me!

Kevin: Consider it done.

ROTFLMAO The funny thing is, this may be eerily close to how they actually decided on Gorina as the official cloth. The only way Sigel will compete with the Efren and Thorsten's of the pool world is with considerable weight. A quick look at the results from the Sigel challenge matches at the IPT qualifiers will prove this to be true.