grip pressure when using english / side spin

kwoshunli

kwoshunli

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello All,

I just wanna ask. Is gripping too tight or too loose have effect on squirt / deflection?

I know that it is right to have a cradle type of grip, not too lose, not tight. just enough to feel the cue.

But I wanna know if there is a significant difference if you cue it too loose, or too tight.

any thoughts?
 
I might be one of the biggest offenders of this myself. :)

You ask if it has a significant effect. Think about how tiny the error can be that makes you miss a shot or position.

That little tiny error is pretty significant when it means missing. :)

The tight grip affects delivery of the cue, and IMO that's always significant.

Confidence and a clear picture of what you want to accomplish certainly helps guard against tightening up on a shot. And, that comes with regular play.

** As I read this question again, I'm going to say yes, in that when the cue contacts the cue ball there has to be a certain amount of shock. When you're hitting the cue ball off center, I'd guess the more you allow the shock to resonate through the cue shaft with a loose grip, the less the effect would be on shocking the cue ball off course. But I'm just guessing on that one. :)
 
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kwoshunli said:
Hello All,

I just wanna ask. Is gripping too tight or too loose have effect on squirt / deflection?

I know that it is right to have a cradle type of grip, not too lose, not tight. just enough to feel the cue.

But I wanna know if there is a significant difference if you cue it too loose, or too tight.

any thoughts?
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You'll most likely get various opinions about this but I'll give you mine. From personal experience, I KNOW that when I use English and I grip the cue stick too tightly, I don't make the object ball. It happened just this weekend on a bar table.

The opinions about why this happens is up for discussion but I believe that if you practice playing with a loose grip you will not hit the same spot on the cue ball as you would when you tighten your grip by accident or by reflex and that's what makes you miss (not hitting the cue ball where you think you are hitting it).

I believe an experienced player may understand (consciously or unconsciously) that deflection and swerve occur when they apply side spin and may adjust for both but when they accidentally grip the cue tip more tightly than they are used to, they simply hit the cue ball in a different spot and get different squirt and swerve than what they were accounting for. At least that's the way I perceive it.
 
kwoshunli said:
Hello All,

I just wanna ask. Is gripping too tight or too loose have effect on squirt / deflection?

I know that it is right to have a cradle type of grip, not too lose, not tight. just enough to feel the cue.

But I wanna know if there is a significant difference if you cue it too loose, or too tight.

any thoughts?
Click to expand...
If you hit the two shots with the cue stick going in the same direction with the same offset and the same speed and elevation, then the two shots will go the same. Of course there are few players who will hit the ball the same if their grip tightens up.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you hit the two shots with the cue stick going in the same direction with the same offset and the same speed and elevation, then the two shots will go the same. Of course there are few players who will hit the ball the same if their grip tightens up.
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Bob, are you saying that there is no difference in the grip pressure if you hit the same spot, the same stroke the same speed?
 
kwoshunli said:
Bob, are you saying that there is no difference in the grip pressure if you hit the same spot, the same stroke the same speed?
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Your question doesn't make any sense.

He is saying that all other variables being exactly the same, grip pressure is irrelevant.
 
Not only do I agree with Bob, but I think its a bad idea to overthink it. Let your subconscious worry about that stuff. Go with what feels comfortable and just focus on your target. Your subconscious is smarter than you are so don't think about overriding it. I'm only saying this because I used to be guilty of this and other trivial thoughts and it just held me back.
 
ScottK said:
Your question doesn't make any sense.

He is saying that all other variables being exactly the same, grip pressure is irrelevant.
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I'm asking if there will be more deflection / squirt if we grip the cue tighter or looser with the same tip offset, same stroke, same other variables.
 
kwoshunli said:
Hello All,

I just wanna ask. Is gripping too tight or too loose have effect on squirt / deflection?

I know that it is right to have a cradle type of grip, not too lose, not tight. just enough to feel the cue.

But I wanna know if there is a significant difference if you cue it too loose, or too tight.

any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Too loose and it can slip out of your hand, or be javelined during allot of follow thru. Too tight, then your natural pendulum becomes more of a Grab, not allowing the cue to hit thru the shot, and bringing in more variables which diminsh control, muscle memory/feel, and follow thru.

There's a right way and a wrong way to grip the cue, same with a can of coke, or a bowling ball. Too loose you'll drop the ball on your backswing, too much you'll tag along down the alley a ways with the ball or not release in such a way as to control forward direction. You can hold a coke can, depending on its weight, so it won't slip, or less and it will be difficult to control, or you can grab it hard and it will crush somewhat. As for deflection, no comment, too many variables.
 
JolietJames said:
Not only do I agree with Bob, but I think its a bad idea to overthink it. Let your subconscious worry about that stuff. Go with what feels comfortable and just focus on your target. Your subconscious is smarter than you are so don't think about overriding it. I'm only saying this because I used to be guilty of this and other trivial thoughts and it just held me back.
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not true... lots of people have very bad habits, ones they are NOT conscious of....



to the OP, a loose grip will help your game in so many many ways... just look at all the top players, 99% have a very loose grip even if it doesn't look like it, they do.
 
Randall, that's true ; lots of people have bad habits. I wasn't saying to never think of anything. Rather, not to sweat the grip too much. What Bob said is correct.
Many people here have started threads obsessing about their grip. I have found I play better not worrying about my grip. As Gump said, "one less thing". Once I stopped focusing on the grip pressure, what part of my fingers were on the bottom, which part of my hand applied pressure on the cue, etc., my game improved. The OP already knows to cradle lightly. I suppose I went off topic but forgive me, I've been reading the small motions book lately lol.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If you hit the two shots with the cue stick going in the same direction with the same offset and the same speed and elevation, then the two shots will go the same. Of course there are few players who will hit the ball the same if their grip tightens up.
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It is been said many times by many professionals that end mass of cue is a factor for how much the CB squirts out; i agree, but i disagree on the location of that end mass and disagree that its amount is fixed for the particular cue; IMO the end mass varies with how you grip cue and weather cue bridge open or close, and distance between grip hand and bridge.

With a loose grip and open bridge, your cue will have uniform end mass and end mass location and uniform squirt (with same bridge / grip hand location)

Tight grip on the other hand does change the end mass, and its location thus amount of squirt
 
naji said:
It is been said many times by many professionals that end mass of cue is a factor for how much the CB squirts out; i agree, but i disagree on the location of that end mass and disagree that its amount is fixed for the particular cue; IMO the end mass varies with how you grip cue and weather cue bridge open or close, and distance between grip hand and bridge.

With a loose grip and open bridge, your cue will have uniform end mass and end mass location and uniform squirt (with same bridge / grip hand location)

Tight grip on the other hand does change the end mass, and its location thus amount of squirt
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Somebody agrees with me anyway ..... :thumbup2:
 
kwoshunli said:
I'm asking if there will be more deflection / squirt if we grip the cue tighter or looser with the same tip offset, same stroke, same other variables.
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No, there will not. A main reason is that the flesh of your hand is much softer than the ball, tip and wood of your stick. That soft flesh cannot change what the cue stick is doing during the very brief time the tip is on the ball. Many people refuse to understand or accept this -- do not attempt to argue with them as it is unlikely that they are susceptible to reason.

But the largest factor is that as far as squirt is concerned, all the important stuff is in the front few inches of the cue stick. If you got a heavy, hard metal bridge head and held it within a few inches of the cue ball, then you might start to see an effect. A hand bridge 12 inches back might have a tiny effect if you make your hand bridge more/less firmly. A very tiny effect. Like if your opponent is seated to left of the shot -- think bending the gravitational field.

What happens on the shot depends on how you have prepared the cue stick before it hits the cue ball -- you cannot change the shot while the tip is on the ball. Prepare the stick well.
 
Take a look at say..Shannon Daulton and or Buddy Hall.These two look like their trying choke the life out of the cue. Now take a look at say..Busty and or Efren or Danny D.I like to grip the cue lite but I'm not sure that it matters all that much.I'm thinking at impact we all tend to put more pressure on the cue, maybe.I think it matters on the type of shot you are shooting however.

One thing I noticed at Tunica watching SVB up close,was that he regrips the cue on his last stroke right before he pulls the trigger.Funny as I have never heard anyone mention that he does this.Yes I tried it when I got home but it was not for me,lol Just some food for thought,I guess.John B.
 
John Brumback said:
Take a look at say..Shannon Daulton and or Buddy Hall.These two look like their trying choke the life out of the cue. Now take a look at say..Busty and or Efren or Danny D.I like to grip the cue lite but I'm not sure that it matters all that much.I'm thinking at impact we all tend to put more pressure on the cue, maybe.I think it matters on the type of shot you are shooting however.

One thing I noticed at Tunica watching SVB up close,was that he regrips the cue on his last stroke right before he pulls the trigger.Funny as I have never heard anyone mention that he does this.Yes I tried it when I got home but it was not for me,lol Just some food for thought,I guess.John B.
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Yeah svb looks like he's gripping with with pinky and rear fingers then when he he releases his stroke its almost only his index fingers on the cue and through the follow through he hold on the the cue again with his back hand. I've tried it too and take a lot of getting used to lol.
 
John Brumback said:
Take a look at say..Shannon Daulton and or Buddy Hall.These two look like their trying choke the life out of the cue. Now take a look at say..Busty and or Efren or Danny D.I like to grip the cue lite but I'm not sure that it matters all that much.I'm thinking at impact we all tend to put more pressure on the cue, maybe.I think it matters on the type of shot you are shooting however.

One thing I noticed at Tunica watching SVB up close,was that he regrips the cue on his last stroke right before he pulls the trigger.Funny as I have never heard anyone mention that he does this.Yes I tried it when I got home but it was not for me,lol Just some food for thought,I guess.John B.
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Hi John, Bob, and 3andstop and all,

Lets get one thing for sure about loose grip, you will be using cue weight for your shots of which provides much higher degree of accuracy in term of speed hence positioning, since the arm weight is somewhat out of the picture. Additionally loose grip will keep arm dangling like a Plumb Bob in same position in relation to ground more accuracy and forces the cue to follow through due to arm bending if the player fails to do complete follow through

As far as squirt and loose grip i will have to stick with my opinion and Mr. 3andstop sorry Bob, not that i am a pro, but shoot few racks at time, and have a table at home, and was acknowledged by my friend Randy G. one day!
 
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