Gripping with the back two fingers?

mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
What do you think about this video? LINK

I want analysis and/or your opinion either way, don't slam the guy if you disagree.

Thanks,
Marcus
 
mnorwood said:
What do you think about this video? LINK

I want analysis and/or your opinion either way, don't slam the guy if you disagree.

Thanks,
Marcus
Click to expand...
This might work well for some people (e.g., people who have a natural grip pivot on their last two fingers; or people who tend to tighten the grip during the stroke, except when they grip only with the last two fingers). FYI, Bob Jewett and I address this topic some HERE.

Regards,
Dave
 
i seen that video before and tried it just for the sake of trying it, it did not seem to do anything for me but i also only tried it for about 5 shots and moved on.
 
Hawaiian Brian's team from Hawaii back at the L.A. Open in the early '70's all were gripping the cue with their last 2 fingers.

I presume that that takes the grasp further back behind the wrist and allows the pendulum stroke to stay level a bit longer before the tip dips at contact with the CB.
 
Yes, I have seen quite a few of those videos. Helpful information.

First, the cue is not gripped, its craddled in the fingers. The thumb is just there to keep the cue from falling out of the craddle and onto the floor.

Since the cue is moving forward and striking the cue ball it is only natural to close your grip on the cue with pressure. This pressure sends important information to your mind so that the next time this shot comes up your grip hand will repeat the same pressure on the cue.

The biggest problem involves the two most powerful fingers on your hand, the index finger and the one next to it. You need to keep those two fingers out of as much play as you can. You will still grip the cue when hitting the cue ball but it will be with the two weakest fingers.

It doesnt take much effort to roll a 5+ oz ball with a cue that weighs approximately 4 times the weight so why use the two most powerful fingers to feel a shot.

I think that most will get a better feel for the balls by using this method of craddling.

John
 
V grip.... When the thumb and forefinger are in opposition you promote a loose grip and keep some of the wrist muscles out of play..... Anyone write using the thumb and last 2 fingers assuming they have more than those 3 digits on their hand?????
 
LAMas said:
Hawaiian Brian's team from Hawaii back at the L.A. Open in the early '70's all were gripping the cue with their last 2 fingers.

I presume that that takes the grasp further back behind the wrist and allows the pendulum stroke to stay level a bit longer before the tip dips at contact with the CB.
Click to expand...

+1

John
 
If you ask Freddy the Beard, he would tell you to use the front two fingers for top spin and the back two fingers for back spin.

I've been using this for a couple of years now and find it does make a difference.

As far as using the back two fingers for a long shot, I know it helps when I'm trying to get backspin. Really helps with the follow through.
 
There's a copy of this thread in the Ask the Instructor forum, so I hope folks don't mind I post a copy of my answer here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3510508#post3510508
sfleinen said:
Folks:

This technique has been used by snooker players for decades. It's called the "rear-fingered" grip.

Here's an example -- at 8:00 minutes into the Ronnie O'Sullivan vs. Chia-Ching Wu in the World Pool Masters (this link will go right to that spot when you click on it):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2Ye61WiLMk#t=8m

(Watch Ronnie's grip hand very closely in this outtake. You can see how the "pincer fingers" -- i.e. the forefinger and the thumb -- are completely loose and relaxed, while the cradle fingers -- the middle/ring/pinkie -- are cradling the cue.)

Additionally, think of it this way -- when you grip the cue like this, you are more emulating the way you throw a dart or a javelin, but in an underhanded fashion. That is, the leading fingers "fly outward and away" like a sabot, with the rear fingers being the ones to support the throwing implement until the last possible moment. In the case of throwing a dart or a javelin, because you're throwing it overhanded, your ring and pinkie are the sabot, and "fly outward and away" as you go through your stroke, with the "rear fingers" (the pincer fingers in this case, the forefinger and thumb) being the last to release contact from the throwing implement.

This is reversed for delivering a cue, because you're delivering it underhanded, not overhanded. Thus, the rear fingers are the ring and pinkie -- the thumb/index/middle are your sabot.

Fran is right, in that you don't have to exaggerate the movement with the "sabot" fingers opening up and flying away. It's sufficient to just feel the thumb and those first fingers release pressure from the cue, with the fulcrum in your hand being the ring and pinkie fingers that the cue rests on.

It's a very effective, time-tested, and proven technique.

-Sean
Click to expand...
 
Never did get a good shot of what the thumb did during execution, and the camera angle looking at the back hand should of been Allot Lower. Would of liked to have seen how or what the thumb and two fore fingers did during shot execution. Poor camera angles for sure.
 
mnorwood said:
What do you think about this video? LINK

I want analysis and/or your opinion either way, don't slam the guy if you disagree.

Thanks,
Marcus
Click to expand...

im sorry i havent read the replies (which i will)
but ive never heard an instructor recommend that type of grip
jmho
icbw
 
OneIron said:
If I get thoughts like that in my head, I'll never make a shot. :frown:
Click to expand...

I assume you're a golfer...just wondered if we have a similar approach.
I played scratch golf ( sometimes:embarrassed2:) before I played pool.

So the first time I picked up a cue I grabbed it with my golf grip...back
three fingers...it remains my 'foundation grip' although I sometimes find
my hand going to 'thumb and forefinger' on certain hits at 3-cushion.

Like you, I don't worry about it, you gotta let the hand do whatever it
wants....better to worry what the cue is doing.
 
I've never heard of the back two fingers, but I have heard of the back three and the middle two. I'm at work so I can't hear the video, lol, but the general idea is that the index finger tends to be what causes steering and/or last minute grip tension changes. Alex Higgins always played with his index pointing down, Ronnie O'Sullivan also plays with his index off the cue. I seem to remember Louis Ulrich advocating this grip too.
 
Back two fingers

I hear Hennessee prefers to grip with his front two fingers. ;)

No offense meant to the Three Fingered Bandit...
 
I think I've tried just about every stroke and grip. I've used a slip stroke, a short stroking motion with a short follow through, a Buddy Hall/Allison Fisher type of pause in the back swing stroke, a slow and deliberate follow through similar to Buddy and a rhythm stroke. As far as grips, I've used the cradle grip with all fingers with the thumb pointing down, the middle two fingers only and I've used the last two fingers, especially with the follow through.

One thing that I have noticed with using the last two fingers when following through is increased spin on the CB. When I have to stretch really far I will use my little finger only and I get a lot of spin on the CB. I would disagree with the video about the accuracy of the aim. It has been my experience that accuracy gets worse, at least it does for me. I used this grip for a couple of months so I did give it a pretty lengthy test period.
 
My natural grip is with my thumb and first 2 fingers and my back 2 fingers stick out like I'm drinking a dainty cup of tea. I have been experimenting with some things lately and last night I was forcing myself to grip the cue with my entire hand. I did find that it gave me a straighter stroke path and my long shots became more accurate, but it sacrificed my feel or control of the shot and I ended up scratching some, which I almost never do. I never thought of just using the back 2 fingers.
 
I look at it like this... Your hands know more than your head will ever know in many situations.... Most of your tactile ability centers around the first and second finger with the ring and pinky being lesser in touch and control....

In essence I would likely refer to the pointer as Einstein the Middle finger as a mobile Stephen Hawking and the Ring and Pinky as tweedle dee and tweedle dum...

There are so many subconscious things that we do during a night of playing pool that I want the best feedback I can get being fed into my brain.... I think that best info is going to come from the digits that were designed in opposition to our thumbs..

Thumbs after all are pretty much the foundation of civilization and our technology if you really think about it.......
 
pt109 said:
I assume you're a golfer...just wondered if we have a similar approach.
I played scratch golf ( sometimes:embarrassed2:) before I played pool.

So the first time I picked up a cue I grabbed it with my golf grip...back
three fingers...it remains my 'foundation grip' although I sometimes find
my hand going to 'thumb and forefinger' on certain hits at 3-cushion.

Like you, I don't worry about it, you gotta let the hand do whatever it
wants....better to worry what the cue is doing.
Click to expand...

I never thought about it in terms of my golf grip but I think you've hit on something. I play golf right handed but I shoot pool left handed. This means my primary grip hand in both is my left. And I emphasize the last three fingers in both. (My best handicap in golf was 3).

But if I think about those details when playing, it can get pretty ugly. :cool:
 
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