Guess whats in the box!!!!

classiccues said:
ROTFLMAO..

Ahhh just one more for tonight....

DSCF0157.jpg


Oh and BTW, unlike are cue images, these are not something we are willing to share with other sites (except where you see me put these). They will be in a special historical section soon to be published on the pool table magic site. What else is there???? Many rings, metal, all the plastics, foils, and the best part.. the punch tools that made the actual pockets. The above image.. might qualify as the real first catalog.

JV
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Just an update.. this catalog is catalog 1a.. falls BETWEEN the first and second catalog. Not the initial flyer I suspected it was.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Just an update.. this catalog is catalog 1a.. falls BETWEEN the first and second catalog. Not the initial flyer I suspected it was.

JV
Click to expand...

No, it is the initial flyer. This is their first line up of cues. It pre-dates what is commonly accepted as "the first catalog". That's why it doesn't show all the cues. You are lucky to have found one. I have the more famous "first catalog" original but this one is the first one and it's rarer. I have been looking for one and also there is a card that falls in between the first and second catalog that's missing as well.

Chris
 
TATE said:
No, it is the initial flyer. This is their first line up of cues. It pre-dates what is commonly accepted as "the first catalog". That's why it doesn't show all the cues. You are lucky to have found one. I have the more famous "first catalog" original but this one is the first one and it's rarer. I have been looking for one and also there is a card that falls in between the first and second catalog that's missing as well.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,
Then you have another mystery.. the commonly accepted first catalog I have has a 1965 date and this one is May of 1966. As can be seen on the corner of the cover. Which I didn't notice until someone called me. But either way its one I haven't seen before.

JV
 
classiccues said:
Chris,
Then you have another mystery.. the commonly accepted first catalog I have has a 1965 date and this one is May of 1966. As can be seen on the corner of the cover. Which I didn't notice until someone called me. But either way its one I haven't seen before.

JV
Click to expand...

I've checked it out - you have the first one for sure. The one you have is the 1965 catalog and it was in use 1965 - 1966. The full first line catalog was undoubtedly published later in 1966. You know how they say history is constantly being re-written? Now you know why.

The books, the Blue Book, Billiards encyclopedia, etc were written well after the fact, after memories faded. Many of the "facts" are close but they are stories and recollections, and a lot of them were off too. The date Eugene Balner passed away is constantly misquoted, etc. I am continuing to archive information to get the facts as close as possible. I have had other evidence that the date was off by a year as well.


Maybe we should call them "first line", "second line", etc. I am also still looking for the card that was published showing the first "second line" designs in 1968 which was between the first line and the full second line catalog.



Chris

PS - when I get a chance, I am going to re-write the history section on my site to accommodate this first flyer and to correct the dates.
 
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Anyways... on to what happened

I was loading the truck up after VF and a guy walks up to me and says hey did I miss the show.. and I said yeah your about a half hour late. He says damn.. I have some stuff I wanted to sell maybe to a cuemaker. I asked what he had, and he showed me these three boxes. The first thing I saw were the forearms and said jeez... he proceeded to tell me he worked at Palmer for a while and stopped in when they were closing up.. yadda yadda yadda.. after seeing the ring box I didn't care if he told me he came in an alien ship. When he shows me the MOP box.. I was like in fully dysfunctional mode.. and I said how much for all of it.. he says I don't know.. what do you think its worth.. I said just give me a price and lets move on.. he says I think I might be asking to much.. I was thinking 350 dollars, I looked at him, looked at the stuff, looked at him, he says.. you think thats too much.. I said no.. here is 350. If you find anything else, call me.

JV
 
classiccues said:
I was loading the truck up after VF and a guy walks up to me and says hey did I miss the show.. and I said yeah your about a half hour late. He says damn.. I have some stuff I wanted to sell maybe to a cuemaker. I asked what he had, and he showed me these three boxes. The first thing I saw were the forearms and said jeez... he proceeded to tell me he worked at Palmer for a while and stopped in when they were closing up.. yadda yadda yadda.. after seeing the ring box I didn't care if he told me he came in an alien ship. When he shows me the MOP box.. I was like in fully dysfunctional mode.. and I said how much for all of it.. he says I don't know.. what do you think its worth.. I said just give me a price and lets move on.. he says I think I might be asking to much.. I was thinking 350 dollars, I looked at him, looked at the stuff, looked at him, he says.. you think thats too much.. I said no.. here is 350. If you find anything else, call me.

JV
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I hate people that are in the right place at the right time..... I'd be willing to bet you could fetch almost (if not more) $350 PER FOREARM, let alone everything else......
 
lol...

.....hope the guy doesn't read AZ. You might have a hard time getting the GOOD STUFF. :) :confused: :eek: Oh, wait, that is the GOOD STUFF. Don't see how it could get much better !!
 
classiccues said:
I was loading the truck up after VF and a guy walks up to me and says hey did I miss the show.. and I said yeah your about a half hour late. He says damn.. I have some stuff I wanted to sell maybe to a cuemaker. I asked what he had, and he showed me these three boxes. The first thing I saw were the forearms and said jeez... he proceeded to tell me he worked at Palmer for a while and stopped in when they were closing up.. yadda yadda yadda.. after seeing the ring box I didn't care if he told me he came in an alien ship. When he shows me the MOP box.. I was like in fully dysfunctional mode.. and I said how much for all of it.. he says I don't know.. what do you think its worth.. I said just give me a price and lets move on.. he says I think I might be asking to much.. I was thinking 350 dollars, I looked at him, looked at the stuff, looked at him, he says.. you think thats too much.. I said no.. here is 350. If you find anything else, call me.

JV
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Tate would probably given 10x that and his left testicle. :eek:
 
1pRoscoe said:
I hate people that are in the right place at the right time..... I'd be willing to bet you could fetch almost (if not more) $350 PER FOREARM, let alone everything else......
Click to expand...

BTW I have offers of over 1k on a forearm....

But time for another pic...

DSCF0146.jpg


The punches that used to make the pockets in the cues... in the old days this was CNC...

JV
 
Sell it! Now!

classiccues said:
BTW I have offers of over 1k on a forearm....

But time for another pic...

DSCF0146.jpg


The punches that used to make the pockets in the cues... in the old days this was CNC...

JV
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Keep one of course!
Nick :)
 
I just received confirmation that the box was made by Eugene Balner himself to hold the inlays. All of this equipment was part of the supply and tools that were supposed to go to Blatt when Palmer closed their doors.

The M forearms were all made by Eugene Balner himself too. It's all Palmer shop stuff. Palmer had the dies made to match their inlays. The inlays are genuine MOP from oyster shell and are thicker than usual guitar inlays to allow for turning.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
I've checked it out - you have the first one for sure. The one you have is the 1965 catalog and it was in use 1965 - 1966. The full first line catalog was undoubtedly published later in 1966. You know how they say history is constantly being re-written? Now you know why.

The books, the Blue Book, Billiards encyclopedia, etc were written well after the fact, after memories faded. Many of the "facts" are close but they are stories and recollections, and a lot of them were off too. The date Eugene Balner passed away is constantly misquoted, etc. I am continuing to archive information to get the facts as close as possible. I have had other evidence that the date was off by a year as well.


Maybe we should call them "first line", "second line", etc. I am also still looking for the card that was published showing the first "second line" designs in 1968 which was between the first line and the full second line catalog.

Chris

PS - when I get a chance, I am going to re-write the history section on my site to accommodate this first flyer and to correct the dates.
Click to expand...

I have a question, since I have been privy to the contents of the recorded interview with Pete and with his mother, why do you think the date of death is off? Both seem pretty consistent, its also the same as printed in the books. I think what needs to be realized is you are on the scene 15 years after those interviews and as you stated, memories fade and now are more faded. Knowing as I do, the people who put the books together, they are a thorough bunch and wanted to be as accurate as possible.

I am more interested in CUSTOM Palmers. The line cues, are easily recognizable and commonly collected. I have seen a few Palmers made that really stand apart from the line cues and I know of 3 I wish to obtain by years end. Not counting the ones I let go (sold) :(

Here is a question that the pool cue world would like to know. What happened to Paradises stuff when he died. I have an acquaintance that claims to know his son. But he can never get a hold of him. Maybe Pete bought some stuff?

JV
 
classiccues said:
I have a question, since I have been privy to the contents of the recorded interview with Pete and with his mother, why do you think the date of death is off? Both seem pretty consistent, its also the same as printed in the books. I think what needs to be realized is you are on the scene 15 years after those interviews and as you stated, memories fade and now are more faded. Knowing as I do, the people who put the books together, they are a thorough bunch and wanted to be as accurate as possible.

I am more interested in CUSTOM Palmers. The line cues, are easily recognizable and commonly collected. I have seen a few Palmers made that really stand apart from the line cues and I know of 3 I wish to obtain by years end. Not counting the ones I let go (sold) :(

Here is a question that the pool cue world would like to know. What happened to Paradises stuff when he died. I have an acquaintance that claims to know his son. But he can never get a hold of him. Maybe Pete bought some stuff?

JV
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hey you stole my question ( paradise stuff ).... wheres jimbo? Q theft.


ive seen some wrong info in print, and they still dont give doc a name or spell his last right.


so what else did you get?...... curious minds want to know.
 
classiccues said:
I have a question, since I have been privy to the contents of the recorded interview with Pete and with his mother, why do you think the date of death is off? Both seem pretty consistent, its also the same as printed in the books. I think what needs to be realized is you are on the scene 15 years after those interviews and as you stated, memories fade and now are more faded. Knowing as I do, the people who put the books together, they are a thorough bunch and wanted to be as accurate as possible.

I am more interested in CUSTOM Palmers. The line cues, are easily recognizable and commonly collected. I have seen a few Palmers made that really stand apart from the line cues and I know of 3 I wish to obtain by years end. Not counting the ones I let go (sold) :(

Here is a question that the pool cue world would like to know. What happened to Paradises stuff when he died. I have an acquaintance that claims to know his son. But he can never get a hold of him. Maybe Pete bought some stuff?

JV
Click to expand...

I was told the date was 1971 but checking Social Security records it turns out Jan 7, 1972 is correct.

Paradise is a fine example of how the life work of a famed cue maker can disintegrate into oblivion once they pass with no custodian or caretaker. I also believe this is why the cues are undervalued. This is why it's important to document the work when it can be documented. Now there is too much guesswork and there aren't enough bona fide examples available. I was told that before Frank passed away, he had closed up shop in Elizabeth and moved it into his house in Verona. Frank's son, Buzzy Thomas, was a professional drummer. After Frank died, I understand he sold off the equipment. Peter didn't want any of it. I would guess that the materials have been parted out and dispersed with their origin obscured.

You have a nice find. Eugene Balner is a fall of fame cue maker. The parts and catalog are now in the hands of someone who knows what it is and appreciates its historic and monetary value. The important part is that it's not going to be tossed into a dumpster and lost forever.

I consider most of Palmer's first, second, and higher end third catalog cues "customs". I don't want to spend my time making points of why, but that's my own perspective because they were mostly built to order based on the options the owners selected. Paradise had a catalog and numerous duplicate models too. They just did it faster than anyone else because of their building techniques. If you mean one of a kind, they are nice to have too. I have quite a few but I don't place much emphasis on them and they are not displayed on my web site.

Chris
 
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DSCF0155.jpg


What we have here are a few more forearms...

Note the bottom one with a phenolic buzz ring. I have moved 100's of Palmers, had a few rewrapped and never saw one with a buzz ring. The ebony in the center is a wedge bottom and I got a few of those.

Wait till tomorrow.. or Sunday...

JV
 
merylane said:
hey you stole my question ( paradise stuff ).... wheres jimbo? Q theft.
Click to expand...

A- No one cares.. B- He is stealing copyrighted logos nowadays...


merylane said:
ive seen some wrong info in print, and they still dont give doc a name or spell his last right.

so what else did you get?...... curious minds want to know.
Click to expand...

I hope to get pics of that Fry.. let me tell you.. we now think the blank is a Boti by using the model J we have as reference. Its a fantastic cue. But back to this deal. Turns out this guy collected and kept business cards.. wait till you see who's I got. Maybe I need to send them to PSA, what would a PSA 8 Balabushka business card be worth ??? LOL

JV
 
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