Hall of Fame for Parica
- Thread starter DrawtheRock
- Start date
Couldnt Care what they accomplished as gamblers?
How could you not care about what they accomplished as gamblers since that is how most pro pool players have to try to make a living. To me the gambling counts more than the tournaments because the tournaments clearly dont show who the best player is. Archer and Souquet are great players but in Parica's prime they would get beat playing him heads up in a long session (not short ones like in the tourneys--to make sure luck doesnt play into things). The reason why they would get beat is because he was the better player and shouldnt the best players get into the hall of fame?
sjm said:
How could you not care about what they accomplished as gamblers since that is how most pro pool players have to try to make a living. To me the gambling counts more than the tournaments because the tournaments clearly dont show who the best player is. Archer and Souquet are great players but in Parica's prime they would get beat playing him heads up in a long session (not short ones like in the tourneys--to make sure luck doesnt play into things). The reason why they would get beat is because he was the better player and shouldnt the best players get into the hall of fame?
DrawtheRock said:
I totally agree that Jose belongs enshrined among the best players ever and surely if gamblers have a place, he belongs there too.
But who beats Jose in his prime??? Tony Ellin in his. I've seem them play for the cash (5K) and it wasn't pretty. Tony had the nutz.
randyg said:
Thanks, Randy. This must be a relatively new rule, for Jean Balukas was inducted at 26 years old in 1985 and, more recently, Loree Jon Jones was inducted in 2002 at age 36. Perhaps women are eligible at an earlier age than men. FYI, Ralf Souquet turned 40 very recently.
DrawtheRock said:
In the modern era, nobody has done better than Souquet against Reyes, Bustamante and Parica in competition. Asians I've met over the years at tournaments have limitless respect for Souquet's game. Perhaps you'll join them in that sentiment one day, instead of making excuses for his vcitims.
The age requirement changed a couple of times, SJM. So, Mizerak and Sigel, for example, got in prior to the age limit going up.sjm said:
The age limit may not be in effect this year either. There is a "20 year of competition" statement.
Fred <~~~ gets to vote this year
What about Souquet over Sigel?
So do you think Souquet is a better player than Mike Seigel was?
sjm said:
So do you think Souquet is a better player than Mike Seigel was?
What about Souquet over Sigel?
So do you think Souquet is a better player than Mike Sigel was?
sjm said:
So do you think Souquet is a better player than Mike Sigel was?
Mike was a victim
I rate Mike higher as well, in fact a lot higer...and he was definitely a victim (your choice of wording) of Paricas when they played for money.
In fact, Allen Hopkins was amazed at how easily Parica beat him.
Again, just my opinion of why I think the best player should be in the Hall of fame before other people..... who wouldnt have liked playing him for the cash.
I respect your opinion but do not agree with it
sjm said:
I rate Mike higher as well, in fact a lot higer...and he was definitely a victim (your choice of wording) of Paricas when they played for money.
In fact, Allen Hopkins was amazed at how easily Parica beat him.
Again, just my opinion of why I think the best player should be in the Hall of fame before other people..... who wouldnt have liked playing him for the cash.
I respect your opinion but do not agree with it
I just saw this thread, Drawtherock....
If it were up to me, I would first of all have Thomas Hueston, Jerome Keogh and Bennie Allen inducted. It's almost shameful that these greats are left out and forgotten and, in my opinion, far less worthy candidates have already recieved induction.
I've always been a fan of Jose Parica. Met him several times, easy to talk to and funny as heck when he wants to be. A better money player than tournament player. Too often the bridesmaid....2 second place finishes in the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships, 3 third place finishes in the same tournament. Never won it. He has 2 unsanctioned World 9 Ball Championships that he won in Japan. The promoter called these tournaments "World Championships" but that's not quite the case.
I know about his Camel tour winnings and P.O.Y., but outside of the DCC's, he has no real major championships. Lot's of mid-level tournaments won though. Much the same could be said of Bustamonte....great talent, no major championships other than at the DCC and 1999 Challenge of Champions. Won several Camel events.
Before I would vote for Parica or Bustamonte, the modern players who would get my vote are Allison Fisher, Oliver Ortmann, Ralf Souquet and Johnny Archer.
Archer is a cinch to get in when he's eligible, as is Allison...as for the two German super-stars, if Robin Bell-Dodson and Lori Jon Jones made it, it would be shameful if these two weren't someday inducted. This is not meant to disparage the aforementioned ladies, but talent for talent and title for title, let's be fair here.
I would also have Don Willis, Grady Mathews, Bugs Rucker, Rags Fitzpatrick, Hayden Lingo, Vernon Elliott and Ronnie Allen in the HOF, but there's NO WAY the BCA will ever induct any of them. Sad.
There are so many other accomplished players and fan favorites who will, in all probability, never receive induction, BUT, the real fans of pool know who's who in the pecking order. We all have our favorite players enshrined in our own H.O.F.'s.
If it were up to me, I would first of all have Thomas Hueston, Jerome Keogh and Bennie Allen inducted. It's almost shameful that these greats are left out and forgotten and, in my opinion, far less worthy candidates have already recieved induction.
I've always been a fan of Jose Parica. Met him several times, easy to talk to and funny as heck when he wants to be. A better money player than tournament player. Too often the bridesmaid....2 second place finishes in the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships, 3 third place finishes in the same tournament. Never won it. He has 2 unsanctioned World 9 Ball Championships that he won in Japan. The promoter called these tournaments "World Championships" but that's not quite the case.
I know about his Camel tour winnings and P.O.Y., but outside of the DCC's, he has no real major championships. Lot's of mid-level tournaments won though. Much the same could be said of Bustamonte....great talent, no major championships other than at the DCC and 1999 Challenge of Champions. Won several Camel events.
Before I would vote for Parica or Bustamonte, the modern players who would get my vote are Allison Fisher, Oliver Ortmann, Ralf Souquet and Johnny Archer.
Archer is a cinch to get in when he's eligible, as is Allison...as for the two German super-stars, if Robin Bell-Dodson and Lori Jon Jones made it, it would be shameful if these two weren't someday inducted. This is not meant to disparage the aforementioned ladies, but talent for talent and title for title, let's be fair here.
I would also have Don Willis, Grady Mathews, Bugs Rucker, Rags Fitzpatrick, Hayden Lingo, Vernon Elliott and Ronnie Allen in the HOF, but there's NO WAY the BCA will ever induct any of them. Sad.
There are so many other accomplished players and fan favorites who will, in all probability, never receive induction, BUT, the real fans of pool know who's who in the pecking order. We all have our favorite players enshrined in our own H.O.F.'s.
Terry Ardeno said:
I agree Terry(like usual). Most of the die-hard pool fans know who played good enough to make the HOF. However, the BCA will not elect people on what is know in the gambling circles. Some people on this thread says that the person who played the best belongs in the HOF. It would be nice for the HOF to work like this, but they need some credentials to go by. These credentials come in the form of tournament wins. Bustamante beat Archer out of money, but does that mean that he should get into the HOF before Archer? Don Willis, Keith, Searcy, Rags, Bugs, etc. played as good or better then some of the known tournament champions, but who they beat out of money, won't get them into the BCA HOF. Do you think the NBA should induct him to their HOF? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault I know he didn't play in the NBA, but he still played better then most of the guys that were. The BCA seems to have certain tournaments that they qualify as majors. Most of the people in the HOF seem to have won a few of these tournaments.
BTW, I think Parica should get in. He does seem to have enough tournament wins. However, he does not have as many major wins as Archer or Souquet, so they may get the nod before Parica.
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rossaroni said:
I think you are wrong about Parica. In fact, he does have more wins than Archer and Souquet. Jose's resume has well over 100 triumphs -- WINS, not second or third places -- as of 2003. That is when I saw it for the first time. Jose's wife has it, I think. I didn't save it, unfortunately. I wish I had. Many of these wins are unknown to the American pool media.
Before the WPA came into existence, Jose won the very first world pool tournament in Japan. When Jose was on top of his game, winning every single event he played in, it wasn't done here in the States at that time. It was pre-Efren Reyes era too.
If Jose Parica is a bride's maid in recent times, it should also be stated that he came in first place time and time again in his prime. What is remarkable about Jose Parica is that even though he will be 60 years old this year, he is still capable of beating anybody on the face of the earth, bar none, even Archer and Souquet.
Today's pool hotshot superstars get more notoriety than some pro players because they have fat stakehorses and sponsors that pay their way to attend events around the world. Of course, if given the opportunity, some other modern-day pros might be claiming a few victories if they had the dough.
I truly admire Jose Parica. He is one of the very few pool players I have let stay at my home. He doesn't smoke or drink, does not use any drugs. His only downside, if I may call it that, is the man loves to gamble. Nothing wrong with gambling, if you can afford it, but it sure is an expensive hobby.
Professional pool, competing in tournaments around the globe, is kind of like the lottery, I guess. You can't win if you don't play, and you gotta pay to play.
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Great Thread
Terry as always..another great post. I agree with you 100 percent. It is sad that these guys might not get in. Dan Marino never won a championship but he is definitely a hall of famer
Terry Ardeno said:
Terry as always..another great post. I agree with you 100 percent. It is sad that these guys might not get in. Dan Marino never won a championship but he is definitely a hall of famer
Here's an interesting article written by Jimmy Mataya entitled "Pocket Billiard World," January 1978, The National Billiard News, page 9. It kind of sums up the way some life-long players feel about pool politics.
Here's a few snippets:
I receive an issue of The National Billiard News every month, and I can stand it no longer. You have taken one of the greatest sports in the world, a sport that I have loved and competed in for 17 years of my life, and you have ruined it.
I am not only speaknig for myself, but for the thousands of other youngsters around the world that may like to be a champion some day in this great sport.
I am sick and tired of reading nothing but lies every month. All of your phony world championships, all of your phony organizations, and all of your phony so-called "Champions of the World." That's right. Phonies.
I hereby challenge anyone to a $25,000 winner-take-all challenge match.
Remember, dear readers, this was 1978 monies. 25 dimes was a HUGE chunk of change.
Continuing: I'm tired of reading these lies about someone who claims they have won more major tournaments than anyone else, and you know who I'm talking about.
And all of these big-time stars who are suppose to be maknig their own line of professional cues, they are just trying to become a legend without really winning.
Well, I have my titles, and I don't need to lie about them or doctor them up. I was the World Champion in 1971 and '72. I then moved west and went into semi-retirement. Since then, I have played in a few tournaments, won a few, lost a few. And for what? Only to get cheated out of my prize money in New Mexico, Florida, and Burlington, Iowa.
Wow, sometimes history does repeat itself.
Continuing: And then they have the guts to invite me to play in their tournament in Hot Springs, Arkansas and their phony World Championship in Baltimore, Maryland. Two more tournaments that didn't pay off.
I don't intend to have a running conversation with you people every month like the rest of those East Coast Cats! I intend to put my money where my mouth is. I say I'm the best pocket billiard player in the world today. Now all you have to do is give me an opponent.
I love this part: I don't care what his name is or what country he is from. One thing I do know, the money will be posted up front, every dime of it, so that everyone can see that it's not phoney, like some of your past challenge matches.
Another thing, I'm not letting you people off this easily. I don't want 1- or 200 people to watch this in a billiar parlor. I want National TV there because I am going to show the Championship of the World...
...The game is 8-ball, race to 15 for $25,000, winner-take-all and the world's title. The date is to be made sometime early in 1978.
You're not going to beat a weak Mataya and then go around bragging. I'll be ready. So send a copy of this letter to Howard Cosell. I want him to be there to count your champion out when I get through with him, whoever he may be or pretends to be.
I'm not going to let you people ruin my life and my game, to me the greatest game of the world. I'll be waiting for your answer soon, Champions. I'm the best there is, and don't ever forget it.
Pocket billiards, you owe me something, and I'm going to collect.
Sincerely yours,
Jim Mataya
(The Real World's Champion)
I wonder if anybody feels that way today!
Here's a few snippets:
I receive an issue of The National Billiard News every month, and I can stand it no longer. You have taken one of the greatest sports in the world, a sport that I have loved and competed in for 17 years of my life, and you have ruined it.
I am not only speaknig for myself, but for the thousands of other youngsters around the world that may like to be a champion some day in this great sport.
I am sick and tired of reading nothing but lies every month. All of your phony world championships, all of your phony organizations, and all of your phony so-called "Champions of the World." That's right. Phonies.
I hereby challenge anyone to a $25,000 winner-take-all challenge match.
Remember, dear readers, this was 1978 monies. 25 dimes was a HUGE chunk of change.
Continuing: I'm tired of reading these lies about someone who claims they have won more major tournaments than anyone else, and you know who I'm talking about.
And all of these big-time stars who are suppose to be maknig their own line of professional cues, they are just trying to become a legend without really winning.
Well, I have my titles, and I don't need to lie about them or doctor them up. I was the World Champion in 1971 and '72. I then moved west and went into semi-retirement. Since then, I have played in a few tournaments, won a few, lost a few. And for what? Only to get cheated out of my prize money in New Mexico, Florida, and Burlington, Iowa.
Wow, sometimes history does repeat itself.
Continuing: And then they have the guts to invite me to play in their tournament in Hot Springs, Arkansas and their phony World Championship in Baltimore, Maryland. Two more tournaments that didn't pay off.
I don't intend to have a running conversation with you people every month like the rest of those East Coast Cats! I intend to put my money where my mouth is. I say I'm the best pocket billiard player in the world today. Now all you have to do is give me an opponent.
I love this part: I don't care what his name is or what country he is from. One thing I do know, the money will be posted up front, every dime of it, so that everyone can see that it's not phoney, like some of your past challenge matches.
Another thing, I'm not letting you people off this easily. I don't want 1- or 200 people to watch this in a billiar parlor. I want National TV there because I am going to show the Championship of the World...
...The game is 8-ball, race to 15 for $25,000, winner-take-all and the world's title. The date is to be made sometime early in 1978.
You're not going to beat a weak Mataya and then go around bragging. I'll be ready. So send a copy of this letter to Howard Cosell. I want him to be there to count your champion out when I get through with him, whoever he may be or pretends to be.
I'm not going to let you people ruin my life and my game, to me the greatest game of the world. I'll be waiting for your answer soon, Champions. I'm the best there is, and don't ever forget it.
Pocket billiards, you owe me something, and I'm going to collect.
Sincerely yours,
Jim Mataya
(The Real World's Champion)
I wonder if anybody feels that way today!
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JAM said:
Holy Pool Balls, "King James" Rempe responded to Jimmy Mataya's challenge in The National Billiard News, March 1978, page 11:
Who owes you, Jim Mataya? Certainly not me, Jim Rempe!
How can you, who has only won two tournaments, think you have the privilege of challenging MY credentials?...Have you played in England, Japan, Canada, Mexico or Europe? How can you call the players from these places so-called "champions"?
You have never seen fit to enter these tournaments to challenge them, or if you did, you must not have made the finals.
Wow, King James is socking it to Jimmy in this article.
Continuing: If you were ever cheated out of prize money, your beef should be with the promoters of those particular tournaments and not broadcast as a knock against all billiards players and tournaments!
Believe me, no one wants a running conversation with you concerning your gripes against the game of billiards, which was originally called "a gentleman's game."
Here it comes: Did you say you want a $25,000 winner-take-all challenge match? Well, let's see the color of your cash, and we can set the match up immediately (or even sooner). Put your money where your mouth is, as the saying goes, and I will be glad to discuss terms with you.
You say you're sick of phony championships? Well, here is one for you that will be definitely for real. I challenge you to any three games of your choosing, and I will annihilate you!
Just in case you will permit ME to pick the three games (which I know you won't do), you can get a big price for your money. How's that for making it easy on you, Jim?
I'm not belittling your ability, Jim, but even you should know that it's not all that hard to get to the top playing billiards. It's staying on top that's tough. And I don't feel that two tournaments qualify you as a top contender!
Truly (not phony) yours,
Jim Rempe
Now, that's some fine barking in print, folks. :thumbup:
we need to get TAR involved for this! 