Harold Worst 7 Rail Draw Shot - Fact or Fiction? Can anyone replicate this shot today?

This is where the Beard mentions the shot: This also from Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna: "As far as pool players go, we were all earthlings and Harold was from another planet. I watched Harold give Baby Face 130 to 100 [i.e., a 30-ball spot at straight pool] and win every game. I watched him shoot his way out of a Weanie Beanie trap when Worst gave Sonny Springer 8 to 6 and the break ... Harold had to be experienced to be believed. Harold had plenty of money and would play anybody, anything and bet all you wanted. So in my time at Johnston City, how many players picked on him to play even? Jacksonville's Sammy Blumenthal was the only one; they played snooker and Harold assassinated him. Previously, Sammy was undefeated in snooker for 20 years. U.J. Puckett had for years dazzled the crowd with his specialty shot, a five rail draw with the cue ball at least five diamonds away from the object ball ... Harold Worst watched Puck do the shot and then asked him if he could try it. Worst got down on the shot and got seven rails on the first try! Puckett never showed that shot at Johnston City again. I seen that with my own eyeballs. There was no stroke shot that Worst couldn't execute." Not in 'B with B' book.
 
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garczar said:
This is where the Beard mentions the shot: This also from Freddy "the Beard" Bentivegna: "As far as pool players go, we were all earthlings and Harold was from another planet. I watched Harold give Baby Face 130 to 100 [i.e., a 30-ball spot at straight pool] and win every game. I watched him shoot his way out of a Weanie Beanie trap when Worst gave Sonny Springer 8 to 6 and the break ... Harold had to be experienced to be believed. Harold had plenty of money and would play anybody, anything and bet all you wanted. So in my time at Johnston City, how many players picked on him to play even? Jacksonville's Sammy Blumenthal was the only one; they played snooker and Harold assassinated him. Previously, Sammy was undefeated in snooker for 20 years. U.J. Puckett had for years dazzled the crowd with his specialty shot, a five rail draw with the cue ball at least five diamonds away from the object ball ... Harold Worst watched Puck do the shot and then asked him if he could try it. Worst got down on the shot and got seven rails on the first try! Puckett never showed that shot at Johnston City again. I seen that with my own eyeballs. There was no stroke shot that Worst couldn't execute." Not in 'B with B' book.
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Well, where did you find it? Did you got to that dudes house?

Shit! He might be taking Friday off, you better get out the door.
 
I grew up in an extraordinary pool room in the 60's in Gloucester, Mass. Hippie Jimmy Reid learned the game there around the same time. There was another player there that I went to high school with named George Holmes. He was a heavy set big boy with red hair and a real character. We had 8 foot tables in there and old creaky oak floors. The rails were all burned by cigarettes and smoke hung in the air constantly. There was only one bathroom cause girls were not allowed, at that time.

Georgie had a big stroke, actually it was phenomenal and we all saw him draw the cue ball 7 rails on many occasions. He passed away about 25 years ago and in his obit his family spoke about how he should and could have been professional. Sadly he became an alcoholic and that shortened his life significantly.

Nick's Pool Room was a special place started by Nick Denikas and then taken over by his son Artie Denikas. I had the great pleasure of seeing Artie and his wife Jane out to dinner at a local restaurant overlooking the harbor called Cruiseport. We chatted for well over an hour about Jimmie Reid and Georgie Holmes along with many others. It was great seeing Artie; he was like a Dad to all the kids in there including me. He passed a year or so later.

But yeah, Georgie could draw the rock 7 rails on an 8 footer! Saw it too often. Made me feel like a wuss!
 
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OK, there are ways to get seven rails on a draw shot. One way is to use a power draw ala Sayginer the 3C player. He draws the ball and it hits the same long rail 4-5 times before it takes off to the other cushions. There are several old videos of Hoppe doing this and remember Worst was a Billiard player before a pool player.
 
Baby Huey said:
OK, there are ways to get seven rails on a draw shot. One way is to use a power draw ala Sayginer the 3C player. He draws the ball and it hits the same long rail 4-5 times before it takes off to the other cushions. There are several old videos of Hoppe doing this and remember Worst was a Billiard player before a pool player.
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I don't think I've ever seen a player hit the same cushion with draw more than twice. Maybe with masse? In any case,

This is what I think of as a legitimate 7-cushion draw shot, and I would certainly bet against on any normal table. (This is from Virtual Pool, where you can dial the speed up to 11.)

1735324089248.png
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't think I've ever seen a player hit the same cushion with draw more than twice. Maybe with masse? In any case,

This is what I think of as a legitimate 7-cushion draw shot, and I would certainly bet against on any normal table. (This is from Virtual Pool, where you can dial the speed up to 11.)

View attachment 798922
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It would be easier if you moved that ob to about 2mm off the (top) long rail though, no?
 
Baby Huey said:
OK, there are ways to get seven rails on a draw shot. One way is to use a power draw ala Sayginer the 3C player. He draws the ball and it hits the same long rail 4-5 times before it takes off to the other cushions. There are several old videos of Hoppe doing this and remember Worst was a Billiard player before a pool player.
Click to expand...

I saw Saygnier get, I think, eight rails during his exhibition up in Chicago.

He had the CB and the other two balls in the corner. He jacked up and masse'd the shot causing the CB to repeatedly dive into the corner, almost like it was fighting to get out. Of course then, when the follow wears off, the CB trickles out and makes the point.

Lou Figueroa
 
Patrick Johnson said:
How does going rail first increase draw?

pj
chgo
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does the rebound add distance?
ie an assist to the speed of the cue ball
which indirectly would give you greater distance which people might think was all from the draw but the rail gets an assist
i have no idea if any of the above is true.....😂😂
 
bbb said:
does the rebound add distance?
ie an assist to the speed of the cue ball
which indirectly would give you greater distance which people might think was all from the draw but the rail gets an assist
i have no idea if any of the above is true.....😂😂
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Definitely some increase in spin from rail contact, but at warp speed, not sure it would have a discernable effect.

He responded, pretending he understood both the question and billiard balls.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't think I've ever seen a player hit the same cushion with draw more than twice. Maybe with masse? In any case,

This is what I think of as a legitimate 7-cushion draw shot, and I would certainly bet against on any normal table. (This is from Virtual Pool, where you can dial the speed up to 11.)

View attachment 798922
Click to expand...
I gotta try that. I got decent draw stroke
 
I never heard about 7 rails but Mike Massey would set up a draw shot on the end tail of a 9 Foot Gold Crown and would easily draw cue ball 4 rails.

On some of of his shots, based on the speed of the cue ball going around the table, if the angle off the forth rail was long enough to catch the fifth rail near the corner I am sure it would hit the sixth rail.

The older players I met in the 1960s told me a ivory cue ball would hold its spin longer than phenolic balls.

Could a ivory cue ball make it possible to hit 7 rails?

Did Harold Worst do it with a 2 7/16 ivory three cushion billiard ball?

Certainly the cue ball, the cloth, the rails, the table would have to be perfect to make it possible to hit 7 rails.
 
brunswick1901 said:
I never heard about 7 rails but Mike Massey would set up a draw shot on the end tail of a 9 Foot Gold Crown and would easily draw cue ball 4 rails.

On some of of his shots, based on the speed of the cue ball going around the table, if the angle off the forth rail was long enough to catch the fifth rail near the corner I am sure it would hit the sixth rail.

The older players I met in the 1960s told me a ivory cue ball would hold its spin longer than phenolic balls.

Could a ivory cue ball make it possible to hit 7 rails?

Did Harold Worst do it with a 2 7/16 ivory three cushion billiard ball?

Certainly the cue ball, the cloth, the rails, the table would have to be perfect to make it possible to hit 7 rails.
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At the US One Pocket Open in 2000 up in Kalamazoo, when, as part of an exhibition, Nevel shot the end rail, make the ball on the side rail, and draw the CB back three rails shot, Massey was juicing the CB for him.

Lou Figueroa
 
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