Who said anything about a lathe???
Also your drilling vertically to the exact rod diameter NOT over "circling" or making moves where backlash would be a major issue unless your machine is way out...
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Has the quality difference between "custom" and "production" become negligible?
- Thread starter Shawn Armstrong
- Start date
Who said anything about a lathe???
Also your drilling vertically to the exact rod diameter NOT over "circling" or making moves where backlash would be a major issue unless your machine is way out...
Well just an FYI, since those dot "inlays" are in ebony, how do you know they're NOT surrounded by black epoxy glue lines?? I'll answer that, you don't unless you're the one who did the work. Of course at that scale it's not really an issue due to he type of work but I just thought I'd put that out there since ebony is the easiest wood to "hide" sloppy milling work.
As for seeing this type of work from a "production" facility, it's not their equipment that keeps them from doing it because most production facilities could do this easily, it's that it takes more time (time is $) and/or not what they want to do...
Who said anything about a lathe???
Well I want a lathe, so that where my mind went when I heard of machines with NO wobble. If you know a milling machine without backlash, that's cool too.
So for those circles of small dots, what would you use? How would you keep the registration whilst rotating the cue? Or would you ignore the tilting from the curvature?
Thank you kindly.
You can easily see by eye there's no epoxy , and never production couldn't I said you wouldn't see it
1
Drill with a cutter to match the rod diameter as I've mentioned. As for "registration" the area is small enough that I don't think the curvature wouldn't be an issue BUT if you had a design where you think it would, you'd use rotary milling, providing you have a CNC milling machine fited with A axis rotary or a program to convert either your X or Y axis for A moves, to keep that in check. Determine what you want your final gaps to be and pocket a few thousandths over that. Turn it down those few thou to your desired diameter.
Somehow I think that tossing in patriotic bullshit is just that. This is a discussion about cues Joey, leave the personal / national nonsense out of it please.
Dave
I'd just like to add my last $.02. Custom cues are ART. You pay for a varying rate for art. You can buy a beautiful piece of art from a local guy for anywhere from $50-500. If you want an original from a GREAT artist though, you have to pay much more. This isn't to say the young up and coming artist, or for that matter a mass produced print is bad, but it's NOT the same.
In that same way, yes my $4500 cue plays amazingly well, but it doesn't play any better than my $450 plane jane. In fact, I'd argue my PJ plays better. Now if you stack my player against a mass produced cue, and had a blind test done, I REALLY like the odds that my cue has far better hit, and playability. (Keep in mind we're not talking about deflection in playability either. Just simply how the cue hits and feels.)
I'm not going to argue wither or not a master piece cue by a master maker is better than a production cue. It's a silly argument, for silly people. I appreciate an artist who has mastered their craft, and feel they should price that at whatever they feel their work is worth.
all the best,
Justin
P.S. Thanks to Mr. Wilson for help keeping the civility around here. Cheers! :thumbup:
In that same way, yes my $4500 cue plays amazingly well, but it doesn't play any better than my $450 plane jane. In fact, I'd argue my PJ plays better. Now if you stack my player against a mass produced cue, and had a blind test done, I REALLY like the odds that my cue has far better hit, and playability. (Keep in mind we're not talking about deflection in playability either. Just simply how the cue hits and feels.)
I'm not going to argue wither or not a master piece cue by a master maker is better than a production cue. It's a silly argument, for silly people. I appreciate an artist who has mastered their craft, and feel they should price that at whatever they feel their work is worth.
all the best,
Justin
P.S. Thanks to Mr. Wilson for help keeping the civility around here. Cheers! :thumbup:
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I really think the answer to 'how does a cue hit' is directly related to the question - 'Why do you play pool?'
I think lovers of production cues and those who proclaim that the hit doesn't matter are more toward the end of the spectrum of players that play primarily to make balls and win games. They want a tool that puts the balls in the pocket, and why spend $1000 to do that when I can spend $250 and get the same end result.
On the other end of the spectrum are those that play primarily for the sheer enjoyment of the game. Yes, they like to win and make balls, but the act of shooting and receiving the feedback is the ultimate reward. To these players the hit and feedback of the cue is the reward of playing.
I have owned many cues by many makers, and bar none the best ball pocketing machine I have ever picked up was a Predator Roadline sneaky. But after playing for a while with it, it just lacked that extra something that made me enjoy playing with it. So it is gone, and my Runde Schön R-5 is the new king of the hill as far as 'enjoying the experience goes'
*plink**plink*
my 2 cents
I think lovers of production cues and those who proclaim that the hit doesn't matter are more toward the end of the spectrum of players that play primarily to make balls and win games. They want a tool that puts the balls in the pocket, and why spend $1000 to do that when I can spend $250 and get the same end result.
On the other end of the spectrum are those that play primarily for the sheer enjoyment of the game. Yes, they like to win and make balls, but the act of shooting and receiving the feedback is the ultimate reward. To these players the hit and feedback of the cue is the reward of playing.
I have owned many cues by many makers, and bar none the best ball pocketing machine I have ever picked up was a Predator Roadline sneaky. But after playing for a while with it, it just lacked that extra something that made me enjoy playing with it. So it is gone, and my Runde Schön R-5 is the new king of the hill as far as 'enjoying the experience goes'
*plink**plink*
my 2 cents
Very interesting JasBy. I never looked at it that way. Sort of makes sense. I know guys that have must have 15k wrapped up in the cues that are in their cases. They love to play, love the game and love their sticks and are constantly switching off cues in an afternoon. They are low B players at their best but love the game. Many of the better players I know have production cues that they have doggedly LEARNED to play with, just as they have doggedly learned to get better at the game.
You can perform any shot on the table with any stick that does not have manufacturing defects and a has properly installed and maintained tip, as long as you take the time to learn how to use it. It is the Indian who knows exactly how to use the arrow he has to the best of its ability, not the Indian who keeps lusting after the newest bestest arrow ever made.
Having said that, production makers can make a cue just as "accurate" as a custom maker and a custom maker can make a cue just as "accurate" as a production maker. You don't need 99.99% accuracy in anything to play pool. If you keep lusting after that .01% you'll never learn how to use the other 99.99%. I think where the real difference is in the materials themselves and the expertise of the craftsmen, that goes for both sides. A custom maker or production shop that doesn't know their materials or methods well will not make a good cue. An experienced craftsman who knows their materials and methods, whether building custom cues or programming machines in a factory, will produce a good cue. The more cues you build the more chance for flaws in materials. Other than that I think its more of personal choice, and to each his own.
Having said that, production makers can make a cue just as "accurate" as a custom maker and a custom maker can make a cue just as "accurate" as a production maker. You don't need 99.99% accuracy in anything to play pool. If you keep lusting after that .01% you'll never learn how to use the other 99.99%. I think where the real difference is in the materials themselves and the expertise of the craftsmen, that goes for both sides. A custom maker or production shop that doesn't know their materials or methods well will not make a good cue. An experienced craftsman who knows their materials and methods, whether building custom cues or programming machines in a factory, will produce a good cue. The more cues you build the more chance for flaws in materials. Other than that I think its more of personal choice, and to each his own.
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Best post on this thread! I think you nailed it.
production cues rule and its no longer close
a $30 higher end tip today has more technology within it than your average custom, put that on a $70 chinese made players and you're already in the same ballpark as a good custom
anthyhing above that price range and its game over, synthetic materials are close to taking over, wood is done, soon enough the chinese will be selling revo type shafts for $100
wood and custom cues will be relegated to the colectable and nostalgia market only
not only that, as pointed out previously,Meucci and Cuetec have had champions winning wih their cues for decades, the "playability" of custom cues has always been a myth
a $30 higher end tip today has more technology within it than your average custom, put that on a $70 chinese made players and you're already in the same ballpark as a good custom
anthyhing above that price range and its game over, synthetic materials are close to taking over, wood is done, soon enough the chinese will be selling revo type shafts for $100
wood and custom cues will be relegated to the colectable and nostalgia market only
not only that, as pointed out previously,Meucci and Cuetec have had champions winning wih their cues for decades, the "playability" of custom cues has always been a myth
The short answer, IMHO, is "Yes". My daily player is a Lucasi and there's not a cue on Earth, of any cost, that's going to make me play measurably better or more consistent.
That being said, there's 2 approaches to manufacturing an item like a Pool cue:
1) You create a price point your research tells you most consumers will respond positively to, and you design/create your product within the budget that allows you the desired profit margin.
2) You create the best damn product you can, then price it based on the cost of production, other overhead (marketing, etc.) you factor in your desired profit and then set a price.
This is basically the difference between Production & Custom other than with custom the consumer has a larger say in things. Still, as someone else said, it's hard to buy a bad cue today. I think that's mostly due to technology along with excellent R&D.
It's a great time to be a Pool Player! -Z-
That being said, there's 2 approaches to manufacturing an item like a Pool cue:
1) You create a price point your research tells you most consumers will respond positively to, and you design/create your product within the budget that allows you the desired profit margin.
2) You create the best damn product you can, then price it based on the cost of production, other overhead (marketing, etc.) you factor in your desired profit and then set a price.
This is basically the difference between Production & Custom other than with custom the consumer has a larger say in things. Still, as someone else said, it's hard to buy a bad cue today. I think that's mostly due to technology along with excellent R&D.
It's a great time to be a Pool Player! -Z-
You're placing a lot of faith in the 1,000 or so "cuemakers" selling cues.
Shawn sez
"Has the quality difference between "custom" and "production" become negligible?"
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Absolutely not.
Dale
I'm not sure I understand what a custom cue is anymore.
The technology is alot more affordable now, so cnc has become available to everybody.
IMO SOME custom cue builders are really just very low volume production cues. Yes, quality control might be better, and they might use slightly better quality raw materials.
Again SOME custom cue builders seem to offer very little customization. Usually it's mainly wood flavour and pattern.
Is Ford a custom car maker because you can pick your colour.
IMO a REAL custom cue builder will offer customization on all aspects of the cue. eg pin, length, weight, thickness, taper, cored of not, length of each component like 12" or 13" forearm, length of handle, butt sleeve, balance, etc, etc, etc.This is just the tip of the iceberg.
So in short, if you know what you exactly want, go to a REAL cue builder. Next best option is a quality production cue.
The technology is alot more affordable now, so cnc has become available to everybody.
IMO SOME custom cue builders are really just very low volume production cues. Yes, quality control might be better, and they might use slightly better quality raw materials.
Again SOME custom cue builders seem to offer very little customization. Usually it's mainly wood flavour and pattern.
Is Ford a custom car maker because you can pick your colour.
IMO a REAL custom cue builder will offer customization on all aspects of the cue. eg pin, length, weight, thickness, taper, cored of not, length of each component like 12" or 13" forearm, length of handle, butt sleeve, balance, etc, etc, etc.This is just the tip of the iceberg.
So in short, if you know what you exactly want, go to a REAL cue builder. Next best option is a quality production cue.
I'm only speaking from my experince & perspective. It's more than fair to say YMMV. -Z-