Has the quality difference between "custom" and "production" become negligible?

Production..........all day long. Custom use to be the way to go but now and for a while now the production market has caught up to and passed most custom makers for obvious reasons and the number one reason is $$$$$$$$$..........lol.......the little guy has MUCH, MUCH less of it.

Someone mentioned quality of wood. Hmmm.......production shafts made today do not have to be super old.......hell, it can be cut today and put into production next month (if not sooner) and still play with or better than most customs (new and old).

There are exceptions to every rule but in this case there are VERY few exceptions.

Just because the cue someone holds has ivory....etc...etc in it does not make it a better cue...........hell, it dont even make it a good cue. What it makes it is.......expensive. That's it.
 
I believe passionate cue makers will always make the highest quality cues. But anyone can believe whatever the hell they want.
 
Let's define custom cue

I think it's important to define custom here... a custom shirt isn't a shirt from a small shop, it's a shirt tailored just for me, I select the fabric, buttons etc.. and then it is made just for me and my body - my measurements.... There's not another one the exact same fit.

There are lots of players on the forum claiming to play with a "custom" cue. Unless it was made just for you, your bridge, your design, your stroke, weight preference, balance point, taper, etc, it's just another production cue. It was just made in a smaller shop or factory.

So, yes there is a difference between a custom and production cue, but where it was made or how many people made it has nothing to do with whether it is custom or not.
 
9ballhasbeen said:
There are lots of players on the forum claiming to play with a "custom" cue. Unless it was made just for you, your bridge, your design, your stroke, weight preference, balance point, taper, etc, it's just another production cue.
Click to expand...

To play the devil's advocate I will pose this question:

A custom cue ceases to be a custom due to a change of ownership?
 
Type79 said:
To play the devil's advocate I will pose this question:
A custom cue ceases to be a custom due to a change of ownership?
Click to expand...
Still "Custom Tailored" made. If it has non-standard dimensions.
Just not tailored for you.

Then there's "custom design" with standard dimensions.
 
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Type79 said:
To play the devil's advocate I will pose this question:

A custom cue ceases to be a custom due to a change of ownership?
Click to expand...

I am new to this whole area but I think you guys are worried over the wrong terminology. "Custom" vs "Production" are not necessarily antonyms.

I think when most people here talk about the value of a custom cue they speak of a piece of art. Art's value comes from how it appeals to one for non-utility reasons, from rarity, from the life (or death) of the artist, age, provenance. It has a subjective value; it may also have utility and be a good cue, but that is not the reason for its value. Make a nearly perfect copy and the copy may sell for a tiny fraction because it is a copy, even if 99.9% of the people can't tell the difference.

Production is about utility. Sure, maybe appearance, but almost by definition it is not rare, it is not about a specific artist or their reputation. Make a copy that is indistinguishable and you just made another one -- if anyone bothered to do so it would be worth about the same.

I think "Custom" might more probably be termed "Art", with all that implies. Sure, it may have objective values as well; a Picasso might have "great color", but it's value does not come from the technical components alone.

I'm finally starting to realize most of the sales I see here are from art dealers. ;)
 
Linwood said:
I am new to this whole area but I think you guys are worried over the wrong terminology. "Custom" vs "Production" are not necessarily antonyms.

I think when most people here talk about the value of a custom cue they speak of a piece of art. Art's value comes from how it appeals to one for non-utility reasons, from rarity, from the life (or death) of the artist, age, provenance. It has a subjective value; it may also have utility and be a good cue, but that is not the reason for its value. Make a nearly perfect copy and the copy may sell for a tiny fraction because it is a copy, even if 99.9% of the people can't tell the difference.

Production is about utility. Sure, maybe appearance, but almost by definition it is not rare, it is not about a specific artist or their reputation. Make a copy that is indistinguishable and you just made another one -- if anyone bothered to do so it would be worth about the same.

I think "Custom" might more probably be termed "Art", with all that implies. Sure, it may have objective values as well; a Picasso might have "great color", but it's value does not come from the technical components alone.

I'm finally starting to realize most of the sales I see here are from art dealers. ;)
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I agree.

IMO........most..... if not all mid-range production cues (~$250) will play with if not above most all custom cues but will not be as valuable to the owner or other people who like to collect or buy and resale custom cues.

Give me a mid-range priced Mcd, Joss, Schon, pechauer...etc...etc....any day to use as a player. Easy to purchase, easy to repair, plays every bit as good as the user needs regardless of skill level and has a price point that is much desired.
 
jrctherake said:
I agree.

IMO........most..... if not all mid-range production cues (~$250) will play with if not above most all custom cues but will not be as valuable to the owner or other people who like to collect or buy and resale custom cues.

Give me a mid-range priced Mcd, Joss, Schon, pechauer...etc...etc....any day to use as a player. Easy to purchase, easy to repair, plays every bit as good as the user needs regardless of skill level and has a price point that is much desired.
Click to expand...

What's MCD if that's Mezz I'll agree on that choice the others not so much ,Mezz by light yrs is the best production cue bar none

1
 
one stroke said:
What's MCD if that's Mezz I'll agree on that choice the others not so much ,Mezz by light yrs is the best production cue bar none

1
Click to expand...

Mcdermott.

I like Mezz equipment every bit as much as any other production cue.

Point is.....I'm more consistent with production cues vs most custom cues due to production cues being more consistent from cue to cue opposed to customs being ......well.......not consistent from one cue to another (in general).

Other reasons: if my custom get stolen or broke I cannot replace or repair it nearly as fast or cheap if at all. If my production cue get stolen or broke I can have another cue that looks and plays "identical" to it within a few days to a week or so.
 
Bump for the good old days

Shawn Armstrong said:
This is quickly turning into cuemakers justifying their existence. Pretty funny :)

I asked about fit, finish and repeatability. It's quickly turned into art, and hugging wood for 20 years. Let's take a look at the "For Sale" sections to see how many "custom cues" have shafts with "taper rolls".......
Click to expand...

LOL.

Remember this post?

Pretty funny.

This thread is good entertainment.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5375804&postcount=31
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
This is quickly turning into cuemakers justifying their existence. Pretty funny :)

I asked about fit, finish and repeatability. It's quickly turned into art, and hugging wood for 20 years. Let's take a look at the "For Sale" sections to see how many "custom cues" have shafts with "taper rolls".......
Click to expand...
Pechauer is a production company but they bought their own timberland acreage and select their own trees, then mill them in their own facility. Admittedly just the maple so the exotic woods they source elsewhere like everyone else. They built their own machine shop and create all their own screws and joints in house. Mr. Pechauer looks at and hand signs (not a stamp) every cue in their Pro Series before shipment. Name another company or custom cue maker that does all that?
 
ddg45 said:
Pechauer is a production company but they bought their own timberland acreage and select their own trees, then mill them in their own facility. Admittedly just the maple so the exotic woods they source elsewhere like everyone else. They built their own machine shop and create all their own screws and joints in house. Mr. Pechauer looks at and hand signs (not a stamp) every cue in their Pro Series before shipment. Name another company or custom cue maker that does all that?
Click to expand...

Not something I care to discuss. Jim (HawaiianEye) got his panties out of place after I made him look bad. He went on a fishing expedition, and decided to reply to several of my posts, some of them nearly 13 years old. Dead topic. Move on.
 
The focus on shafts is making it that way. Partly you would be right. Have you ever played with a solid piece of wood with the right
sized pin for your shafts? You ought to try that sometime. You'll be surprised.



Shawn Armstrong said:
Having recently took some time off from pool, and getting back into it, I ended up having to look at my cue inventory, and started horsing around with different manufacturers and custom cues. Perhaps, 10-20 years ago, there was a measurable gap between the custom cues, and the production cues available at the time. Now, it seems that the top quality production cues are as good as the custom cues available today.

This isn't a discussion regarding collecting cues. This is purely me observing fit and finish, quality of construction, and repeatability in the way that cues play. Predator is putting out a quality cue with CNC inlays - as good as a lot of the custom CNC guys, at a better price, with better technology. Lucasi is making a very good cue for the money - again, consistent hit, and they're coring their cues, like Predator, which makes for a very consistent hitting butt section. The other thing going for them is that they're available now - replacement shafts can be bought in a pinch, they play the same from shaft to shaft, and you have a multitude of options when choosing a shaft.

I know there are going to be a bunch of guys saying "custom is better", but I guess I'm not seeing that big a difference in the quality "gap" that was once there between custom and production cues. Again, not a smear campaign against the custom cuemakers. They will always have the appeal with a segment of the market. But am I the only one noticing that the quality gap is closing, or has closed? And in particular, the Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturers.

Remember, we're not talking about monster cues, or collector's pieces. We're talking about cues as ball pocketing instruments....
Click to expand...
 
336Robin said:
The focus on shafts is making it that way. Partly you would be right. Have you ever played with a solid piece of wood with the right
sized pin for your shafts? You ought to try that sometime. You'll be surprised.
Click to expand...

Sorry....I don’t understand what you’re trying to say in your post.
 
Minions pay for the "Custom" name. Thats how they stay in business.

The only thing you get with a "custom" cue is a custom high priced custom "paint job."

A "custom" cue won't make you play any better. Chrome don't get ya home.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Sorry....I don’t understand what you’re trying to say in your post.
Click to expand...

When I say "the focus on shafts" I'm referring to the LD and Carbon Fiber Shaft market. You can get wildly different hits with either kind of shaft on any kind of butt.

No longer is the hit exclusive to the way a butt is made because the shafts aren't the same maple shafts.
 
336Robin said:
When I say "the focus on shafts" I'm referring to the LD and Carbon Fiber Shaft market. You can get wildly different hits with either kind of shaft on any kind of butt.

No longer is the hit exclusive to the way a butt is made because the shafts aren't the same maple shafts.
Click to expand...

“Hit” has never pocketed a ball. I only care about performance.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
“Hit” has never pocketed a ball. I only care about performance.
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Sure it does. Hit and vibration send a message up your arm through your body to your brain and affect your speed control and confidence to get whitey where you want it.

I do understand what you're saying but how many Southwest's or high end cues have you played with that had a natural maple shaft? There is a distinctive hit, resonance and feedback
that people love. I can make just as many balls with a broomstick with my shaft on it though.

One of the most telling things I've ever done for working with cue ball control was get a solid piece of wood in a lighter weight and play with it. The hit was better when the stroke was pure,
bad hits you could feel and getting position was easier to feel. Whatever feel you need to get that magic combination is what you need regardless of how you go about getting it. Some think its the high end butt.

When I was playing with regular maple shafts I changed the ferrule once and was amazed at how that small change affected my feel for the table. It's not just making balls.

The hit matters for the feedback you need for your game. Now the possibility that the butt is being taken out of the equation does exist.
 
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336Robin said:
Sure it does. Hit and vibration send a message up your arm through your body to your brain and affect your speed control and confidence to get whitey where you want it.

I do understand what you're saying but how many Southwest's or high end cues have you played with that had a natural maple shaft? There is a distinctive hit, resonance and feedback
that people love. I can make just as many balls with a broomstick with my shaft on it though.

One of the most telling things I've ever done for working with cue ball control was get a solid piece of wood in a lighter weight and play with it. The hit was better when the stroke was pure,
bad hits you could feel and getting position was easier to feel. Whatever feel you need to get that magic combination is what you need regardless of how you go about getting it. Some think its the high end butt.

When I was playing with regular maple shafts I changed the ferrule once and was amazed at how that small change affected my feel for the table. It's not just making balls.

The hit matters for the feedback you need for your game. Now the possibility that the butt is being taken out of the equation does exist.
Click to expand...

Rubbish. Hogwash.
 
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