Hatred for jump cues.

[MitchAlsup]

The problem with jump cues is that they are designed to remove the difficulty of what should be a challenging shot as much as possible.

Way back when, Formula One cars ran fully treaded tires basically because nobody understood that slicks would provide more traction. But Formula One still runs their races in rainy conditions, and the competitors would be foolish to run in heavy rain conditions on slick tires that are so great in the dry. Thus teams have the ability (and option) to change from slicks to intermediates to wets depending on the conditions.

Way back when, pool players played with one and only one cue because nobody understood that having a break cue and a jump cue would allow them to achieve better scores. If everybody has one (or both) then the skill used while shooting with these remains key to whether you win or loose. Thus pool players now have the ability to use whichever stick is better for the shot at hand. But those that choose to stick with one stick (sic) find themselves at a disadvantage.

This is progress--and indeed the way progress transpires--and the way it should be.

The skill is not diminushed, conversely the overall skill level needed to remain at (or get to) the top has increased (relative to 9-ball with neither a break nor jump stick.) {Notwithstanding that 14.1 is a better and more challenging game in general, but makes for boring TV unless one also plays 14.1}

Jump cues are designed specifically to require as little skill as possible and to do the job for you. The less effort and skill required to jump with a jump cue the better and they constantly attempt to create more and more gimmicks with those cues to further reduce the effort and make the jump cue the answer to all hook situations.

Even if one has mastered the ability to get the cue ball up and over the impeding ball, they still have to land it in right spot and knock the object ball in the pocket. They will have to learn the sublties of landing jump shots on object balls, and the way the object ball reacts when hit by a jumped ball. Thus, the jump cue still requires considerable skill to use 'effectively' even when getting the cue ball off the table has been simplified.

The manufactures are creating more and more gimicks (A.K.A. products) in order to make money! People buy them because of deficiencies in our schooling system (and general overall afluence). This is known as the "Its the arrow not the indian" theory.

I also suspect that audiences enjoy watching the use of jump sticks and hardly notice the use of break sticks. The general camera work is so poor that one cannot see Earl performing a gently massé curve to make an otherwise impossible shot--because the chosen angle hides all of the subtle effort that makes Earl so great. Camera opeators and the back office producers need to have enough knoledge of pool to know where to position the camera for optimal TV coverage of the skill involved not just of the shot.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Jump cues SUCK

I hate jump cues. Now, I'm deadly with one, but I still hate them. I use them because I don't get more games on the wire, or bonus points for kicking instead of jumping. That being said, they should have never been allowed in the game in the first place. My thinking is, there is no place in the game for a 40" cue. I think a player should be allowed 2 cues maximum. The minimum length for either of those cues should be 52". There should be no phenolics allowed. If you can jump with a 52" leather tipped cue, then you possess a SKILL. That can't be bought. I'm not saying jump shots suck, but 40" gimmick sticks do.

 

[ajohnson13]

I'm keeping my jump cue

I am not going to argue the validity of the Jump Shot. I believe it has its place, just as the kick or masse shot.

The jump cue has been engineered to increase the ease of the jump shot. Just as the newer technology of drivers in golf are engineered to increase the ease of driving the ball farther and straighter. The long armed putter, the 60 degree sand wedge, etc., each and every club in a golf bag has been engineered and re-engineered over the years to perform specific shots on a golf course. This, over time has increased the difficulty of the game by making it easier.... Huh? .... What I mean to say that because of newer technology equipment players have the opportunity play better, and one has to up their skill level (and equipment) to compete on the same par.

The same is true in pool. Rule changes, and technology advances, dictate that a player needs to adapt to new skill sets to compete on a higher plane. I realized when I put a WD tip on my jump cue I could now perform Jump/masse shots, I just needed to learn how to be accurate with it. Just another tool in my arsenal to help me win.

I love my jump cue and would not want to give it up. I will use it whenever I see fit, unless house rules or the tournament or league dictate I cannot. I also recognize the need to be able to kick well, as well as to be able to play position. Therefore I practice all of these, just like I practice draw, top, and english.

My .02

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I am not going to argue the validity of the Jump Shot. I believe it has its place, just as the kick or masse shot.

The jump cue has been engineered to increase the ease of the jump shot. Just as the newer technology of drivers in golf are engineered to increase the ease of driving the ball farther and straighter. The long armed putter, the 60 degree sand wedge, etc., each and every club in a golf bag has been engineered and re-engineered over the years to perform specific shots on a golf course. This, over time has increased the difficulty of the game by making it easier.... Huh? .... What I mean to say that because of newer technology equipment players have the opportunity play better, and one has to up their skill level (and equipment) to compete on the same par.

The same is true in pool. Rule changes, and technology advances, dictate that a player needs to adapt to new skill sets to compete on a higher plane. I realized when I put a WD tip on my jump cue I could now perform Jump/masse shots, I just needed to learn how to be accurate with it. Just another tool in my arsenal to help me win.

I love my jump cue and would not want to give it up. I will use it whenever I see fit, unless house rules or the tournament or league dictate I cannot. I also recognize the need to be able to kick well, as well as to be able to play position. Therefore I practice all of these, just like I practice draw, top, and english.

My .02

I love when every equipment junkie brings up gold equipment and compares it to pool. Major difference between the two bodies - the USGA and the PGA has an equipment governing body that disallows equipment that doesn't maintain the integrity of the game. They can make a ball that will fly 400 yards, but the rules body has shot it down. They can make a 70 degree wedge for the guy that hits the ball behind a tree, but the max allowable loft is 64 degrees. They can make a golf ball that floats across a pond you hit it into - not allowed either. However, pool has been given carte blanche when it comes to a creation. Phenolic tips - no problem. Jump cues - no problem. It's recently been discovered that the phenolic tips damage cue balls. Some players are morified that a sanctioning body can disallow this ingenious invention. Get used to it. You don't hear Tiger Woods crying because he can't use the golf balls that travel 500 yards. Just because someone can invent it doesn't mean it should be allowed to be used. They allow jump cues, but didn't allow Strickland's finger extensions. What's the difference? Both allowed the jump shot to be executed easier. Why should Earl be punished because he has shorter fingers than would allow him to jump properly?

Gimmicks are crap. Get rid of the jump sticks. If you are so good, kick out of the hook. Otherwise, if the guy was able to put you in jail so good that you can't kick out of it, don't you think he deserves ball in hand? Safety play is all but gone because of the jump cue. A guy shouldn't need to weld you to a ball to get ball in hand.

 

[Celtic]

Way back when, Formula One cars...

Dude, car racing is a far cry from friggin pool. Part of the whole point of car racing is not only the skill of the racers but the ability for the car companies and the racing team to build the best car to compete in such that Ford looks better then Chevy when they win a race.

You just compared an apple and a friggin camel.

 

[Gerry]

actually, the jump shot did nothing more than fill the pockets of cue companies like Predator, leap frog, cuetec etc......in our sport there is only so many things you need to purchase to play. By adding a "so called" legal shot they get to sell you all ANOTHER piece of equipment.

If you really look at the % of games won using the jump vs not the #'s are surprising. They are about the same as games won/loss to the player who pushes out.

the push out is basically a death sentence to great players.....the jump shot IMO is like the veg-o-matic, or the george forman grill, or oxy-clean, or any number of fad gimicky junk.

yea, I don't care for jumpers. I like to watch great players work out a problem and kick like a mule.....not pull out a shorty and SMASH the table like a fool trying to go airborn.....



G.

 

[ShootingRazbone]

A couple weeks ago I drew the break and run 10 ball oppurtunity at a tournament. You break... if you make any balls you continue to shoot but the pocketed ball on the break doesnt count towards any money....

So... I made the one on the break but getting on the 2 obviously is luck! Well I didn't... stone hooked behind another ball the length of the table with the 2 near the top corner. At 84 dollars a ball I needed to jump to make the 2 ball. No way around it. Used my jump stick, made the 2, and had the 3 and 4 as ducks... ran out for 600 bucks and some change. Yea I like em! Until they are deemed illegal by the "powers to be" you are forced to use them or find yourself disadvantaged.... and broke!

 

[CHRIS_SPORT]

like grady once said, "i can teach anyone with any sort of coordination how to jump a ball in 30 mins., but it takes years to learn how to kick well". he said this referring to a jump cue being used during a match. i agree with him. more knowledge involved in kicking.

Your right about that, But some times you can kick at the ball because other balls.

9 out of 10 players that hate for ppl to jump don't know how or is no good at aiming with a jump cue. Having a jump cue has saved me alot of money. I think if a player hooks him self it just made it hard to run out or get a leave so why cry. even the best players don't make evry jump shot mustless get safe.

 

[Johnnyt]

Why the hatred for jump cues? You ask a fair question. I'll try to give you a fair answer from an old-timer's perspective.

It's not really jump cues as such that I dislike. It's the changes that have happened to pool over the last 30-35 years, and jump cues, phenolic tips and so forth are just a part of it.

In an effort to increase TV coverage and the fan base, the tournament game was switched back then to nine ball. Nine ball meant that the break became very important, so players had to learn how to hit like Superman, with leaps and bounds and flying cue balls. Those of us who grew up with straight pool, a game of finesse, did not welcome this change. It's not right or wrong, we just don't like it. We think it lessens the game. The emphasis on the break eventually led to phenolic and G10 tips, but those are just a symptom of what we don't like, not the cause.

In a further effort to speed up the game, the penalty for a scratch or foul became ball in hand anywhere on the table. That penalty for not hitting the lowest numbered ball was so severe, particularly at the pro level, that jumping became an important part of the game. Jump cues are the result. Again, just a symptom, not the cause.

We old-timers liked our game better. Besides finesse, straight pool (or one pocket) requires more thought and creativity. In nine ball you know what your next shot is going to be, and that takes away a big part of what makes pool challenging. It all becomes execution, like bowling (well, not that bad).

The hoped for TV coverage hasn't worked out, as I guess you know. We are now left with a game that isn't any more popular than 30 years ago, but with a whole generation of pool players who know nothing but nine ball (eight ball too, to be fair). That is a shame. Not long ago I was at a room playing straight pool with a friend, and I heard some guy ask the counterman what were we playing. Worse, the counterman told him it was straight pool, a good beginners game. As Marlon Brando said, "the horror, the horror".

So ... jump cues, jumping, monster breaks and flying cue balls .... it's all a result of the attempt to make the game spectator friendly, and it's changed pool in a big way. Not for the better from our perspective.

Tap, tap, this oldtimer agrees. What I hate about jump cues is when you safe someone so they can't hit the OB w/o going a few rails and all they need to do is do a simple jump to get out of it. That takes way too much away from the defensive part of the game. A lot of players on here haven't been playing long enough to have played w/o them, so they really don't know where we're coming from on jump cues. Johnnyt

 

[JamisonNeu]

What's wrong with that? You still have to get lucky to make the shot or to leave your opponent safe.



Should you not be allowed to masse when you hook yourself either? Why single out the jump shot? Again, if you use a jump cue that makes the shot easier, you still have to get a lucky roll to get a safety or make the shot and get position.

You do make a good argument.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

You do make a good argument.

I don't think anyone has a problem with jump shots. It's the jump cue they have a problem with. Masses can be performed with your usual cue so I don't think anyone will have a problem there.

Like I said before, I think an interesting rule would be to allow jump cues at the start of an inning. Once the shooter changes to their shooting cue, they must use that cue until the inning is over.

 

[CreeDo]

Reasons for hating:

· Takes a 2D game into a 3rd dimension, which offends some purists who feel the original 'intent' was to keep the game played on a flat surface, where shots are the result of seeing the angles. You could say this is a completely 'anti jump' attitude.

· Allows less skilled players to get out of traps where normally you'd expect someone of their skill level to miss the OB and give up BIH.

· Also allows these players to get the hit after maybe an hour of learning the basics, while kicking takes much longer to learn. The oldschool player either sees it as the new guy hasn't paid his dues, or the old guy wasted a lot of time learning the 'wrong' skill.

· The 'gimmick' factor of the cues themselves. They are useful for only 1 thing and clearly not meant to be played with. You pull them out for 1 use then pack 'em in again. The haters feel like pool is only meant to be played with a real cue, and jump sticks are more like some weird cheating device than an actual stick you use to make shots. It's almost like the player grabbed a portable vacuum cleaner, sucked the cue ball up, dropped it on the OB, and then put the vac away and went back to his real pool stick.

· The equipment almost 'defines' the shot. While full cue jumping can be done, some of these 1-ball-width-away jumps really need a dart stroke and a short light cue with a phenolic tip. Take away the equipment and the close range jumps pretty much don't exist anymore. It's not like the equipment makes the shot 'easier', it's more like it makes something impossible possible. Whereas other stuff (whether it's big draw or 3 rail kicks or masse or whatever) can be done with any regular cue in the world, even a beat house stick. People resent the idea that you need to get out your wallet to add the close jump shot to your arsenal.

· Natural resistance to change. If I could go in the future and see some of the stuff added to pool in 100 years I might hate it too. Yet a future version of me that grew up seeing that stuff might think it's great.

My take: Hating on something you cannot change is useless. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Also, I think a lot of players overstate how easy it is to make shots. To get a hit, ok... sure, it's easy. But to make a shot is not easy, and getting leave is something of a miracle. The best kickers seem to be able to kick to get a predictable safety. If a guy jumps and leaves the other guy safe, it always seems to be more a matter of luck than a planned outcome.

 

[ARROWCRUSHER]

This cracks me up , some say it takes no skill to jump and make balls accuratly, that a six year old kid can do it. Well i disagree, the fact is if someone is that good and does not want to give some supposed bar room hack a chance with a jump cue , they should be good enough to run out every time then so the bar room hacks dont get a chance to use their jump cue. Actually i can kick from near every spot on the table , but if the other guy is going to use one then it is good enough for me to learn how, and i did. And it is not as easy as some think . !!!

 

[Jason Koopman]

The problem with jump cues is that they are designed to remove the difficulty of what should be a challenging shot as much as possible.

The problem with jump cues is that Robin Dodson can give a 6 year old kid or a bar room hack a "Frog" jump cue and in 5 minutes of minimal training where the cue itself does most of the work have him doing full ball jumps and pocketing the ball.

Jump cues are designed specifically to require as little skill as possible and to do the job for you. The less effort and skill required to jump with a jump cue the better and they constantly attempt to create more and more gimmicks with those cues to further reduce the effort and make the jump cue the answer to all hook situations.

We now have pencil thin jump cues built made to dart the cueball and jump over a full ball very close to the cueball, we have the phenolic tips that remove alot of the stroke and power needed to cause the "bounce" that makes the cue ball jump, we have slightly longer jump cues coming out now that make for more accurate jumping when you are not required to jump a full ball or have a fair amount of distance between the cueball and conflicting ball. And the mother of all horrors (so far) we have the Jump Buddy http://www.jump-buddy.com/ .

The more crap they come out with like this the more they remove the skill factor from the game. It does not take that much skill to jump with todays jump cues, those cues are designed to make jumping easy so this is common sense. You can watch an endless stream of APA 3 skill level players jumping in full ball jumps at the "Frog" booth and buying up those cues to make up for the fact they cannot play shape or kick.

The hatred I have for jump cues is what they are doing to the game. Pool is already looked down upon by the snooker crowd and now we are gimmicking it up to make it even more brain dead. How the heck anyone thinks that is a good thing is beyond me.

wonderfully explained and I agree but I will certainly use one as long as it is legal.

 

[JB Cases]

So ... jump cues, jumping, monster breaks and flying cue balls .... it's all a result of the attempt to make the game spectator friendly, and it's changed pool in a big way. Not for the better from our perspective.

I don't kow what constitutes an old timer here but I grew up playing two-foul pushout nine ball and saw it migrate to one foul. And as someone who witnessed first hand the evolution of jump cues and eventually became a huge seller and possibly a contributer to even greater popularity of them, I have to say that it's honestly like flipping a coin as to whether the "game" is better with them or without them.

I witnessed too many great, absolutely great fantastic and highly skilled shots using the jump cue in match situations among professionals, to ever consider the cue as a problem.

You are right that the evolution of jump cues coincides with the rise in popularity of Texas Express one-foul ball in hand rules. The jump cue merely fills a need. It is said to have been invented by no less than Hall of Fame professional player and video archiver Pat Fleming. Thus we aren't talking about some B-player trying to figure out how to jump like Earl. We are talking about world class players inventing new equipment to fill holes in the rules.

So when Tom in Cincy delights in taking away the jump cue he is really doing a disservice to those who know how to use the tool and need to use it. What he should really do then is to make "jump shots" illegal in his tournaments if he really feels that he should play around with the rules and further limit pool's growth.

I am sitting squarely in the middle. I think that a ban on jump cues should come with a ban on jump shots AND unintentional safeties. However as long as jump cues are allowed then I will endeavor to sell the best ones I can make and also to teach people how to use them properly.

I don't believe that tournament directors should have the right to displace rules according to their personal whims. To me that is far worse than a jump cue can ever be. In another one of those "if I had the money" fantasies I would endeavor to keep every TD on Earth from changing the rules as they wish. Pool is fractured enough without everyone dinking with the rules.

 

[JB Cases]

I hate jump cues. Now, I'm deadly with one, but I still hate them. I use them because I don't get more games on the wire, or bonus points for kicking instead of jumping. That being said, they should have never been allowed in the game in the first place. My thinking is, there is no place in the game for a 40" cue. I think a player should be allowed 2 cues maximum. The minimum length for either of those cues should be 52". There should be no phenolics allowed. If you can jump with a 52" leather tipped cue, then you possess a SKILL. That can't be bought. I'm not saying jump shots suck, but 40" gimmick sticks do.

If you can jump with ANY cue you possess a skill. If you can make the cueball spin to the right or the left then you possess a skill.

I bet you would have HATED to gamble with me in 1860 if I happened to have a piece of chalk in my pocket and you didn't.

You might have asked the town sheriff to hang me for witchcraft after I beat you so easily.

So if you truly, truly believe that pool should only be SKILL based then find the most UNSUITABLE device for making a ball move and play with that and only that. Otherwise accept the FACT that no inert device makes the shot only the player wielding that device does.

 

["T"]

Wow, a surprisingly big response over a minor issue.

 

[JB Cases]

Reasons for hating:

· Also allows these players to get the hit after maybe an hour of learning the basics, while kicking takes much longer to learn. The oldschool player either sees it as the new guy hasn't paid his dues, or the old guy wasted a lot of time learning the 'wrong' skill.

Not true. You can learn to kick in five minutes. Tom Rossmann for example puts out cards with exact kicking systems on them. There is nothing in the rules that says you cannot use these cards to "refresh" your knowledge before you step to the table. Obviously having these cards confers an advantage over someone who doesn't have that knowledge.

· The 'gimmick' factor of the cues themselves. They are useful for only 1 thing and clearly not meant to be played with. You pull them out for 1 use then pack 'em in again. The haters feel like pool is only meant to be played with a real cue, and jump sticks are more like some weird cheating device than an actual stick you use to make shots. It's almost like the player grabbed a portable vacuum cleaner, sucked the cue ball up, dropped it on the OB, and then put the vac away and went back to his real pool stick.

Clearly they are meant to be played with. They exist to facilitate a need in the game as defined by the rules. Make a good hit or give up ball in hand. It's just an answer to a need.

· The equipment almost 'defines' the shot. While full cue jumping can be done, some of these 1-ball-width-away jumps really need a dart stroke and a short light cue with a phenolic tip. Take away the equipment and the close range jumps pretty much don't exist anymore. It's not like the equipment makes the shot 'easier', it's more like it makes something impossible possible. Whereas other stuff (whether it's big draw or 3 rail kicks or masse or whatever) can be done with any regular cue in the world, even a beat house stick. People resent the idea that you need to get out your wallet to add the close jump shot to your arsenal.

Ever tried those 3-rail shots and those masses with a mace? Or how about trying them with cue that has no tip at all? Or a cue which has an unchalked tip? The introduction of the tapered cue stick, the leather tip and the use of chalk all made formerly impossible shots possible. Why don't people resent the idea that a layered tip is better than a non-layered one and willing spend $30-$50 per installed tip on the HOPE that they will get better performance? A jump cue represents true performance that is the same for all and the results of using one lie SOLELY and COMPLETELY within the realm of the user's skill level.

· Natural resistance to change. If I could go in the future and see some of the stuff added to pool in 100 years I might hate it too. Yet a future version of me that grew up seeing that stuff might think it's great.

Exactly.

My take: Hating on something you cannot change is useless. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Also, I think a lot of players overstate how easy it is to make shots. To get a hit, ok... sure, it's easy. But to make a shot is not easy, and getting leave is something of a miracle. The best kickers seem to be able to kick to get a predictable safety. If a guy jumps and leaves the other guy safe, it always seems to be more a matter of luck than a planned outcome.

Agreed. People tend to completely overstate the amount of skill required because it looks so easy. Kind of like when we see professionals running out on tv and people say to us that it's easy because they never have a hard shot.

The only part of your statement that I disagree with is that jumping is a matter of luck. For the best jumpers who study this aspect of the game then jumping is a controlled shot with predictable outcomes.

Especially now, about 10 years after jump cues have matured and become an integral part of the game.

 

[JB Cases]

I don't think anyone has a problem with jump shots. It's the jump cue they have a problem with. Masses can be performed with your usual cue so I don't think anyone will have a problem there.

Like I said before, I think an interesting rule would be to allow jump cues at the start of an inning. Once the shooter changes to their shooting cue, they must use that cue until the inning is over.

But it is impossible to perform every masse with every cue. In fact the trick shot artists are quite fond of their "masse cues"

 

[Celtic]

wonderfully explained and I agree but I will certainly use one as long as it is legal.

I will as well. I made this jump in Vegas this year in teams in the 4th round getting us to 12.

CueTable Help

I only jumped 3 times in the entire of Vegas including both BCA and VNEA singles and teams, all events of which I played alot of matches and I made the hit on all 3 and made the shot on 2 jawing the third.

It is kind of amusing when people assume that if a person does not like jump cues they simply must not know how to use them as someone mentioned above. The reality is more likely that the people who really want the cues removed are the people who shoot well enough that they rarely need to use them and know the rails well enough to kick to better effect but when they do end up using them they are rarely going to miss with one.