Have You, Do You, Will You, Hustle?

[ridinda9]

for all those who replied "I'm not good enough to hustle "

Hustling isn't about being the best player in the room.
It's about knowing who you can and can't beat in the room.
There may be a top dog there that you can't beat.
make some games with him, and lose to him. That's the tax you pay for gambling in his room.
But make MORE games with the players you CAN beat. Keep it close and let them think they COULD beat you.
You don't have to beat everyone, and you don't have to win every game.
You just have to walk out of the room with more money than you walked in with

 

[RunoutJJ]

Hustling isn't about being the best player in the room.
It's about knowing who you can and can't beat in the room.
There may be a top dog there that you can't beat.
make some games with him, and lose to him. That's the tax you pay for gambling in his room.
But make MORE games with the players you CAN beat. Keep it close and let them think they COULD beat you.
You don't have to beat everyone, and you don't have to win every game.
You just have to walk out of the room with more money than you walked in with

Very true but why lose anything if you can keep it close and beat the players you're suppose to in the right order? I see your point but why lose in the first place. Why not take everybody for every penny they have? Why pay tax??

 

[Banks]

I tried once against a guy that showed up at the bar probably six years ago. I think i barely lost the first two as this complete banger told me how good he was. He had some story of being the best in his area or in southern Oregon or something else obviously untrue. He quit at $10 up when it was pretty apparent i was messing around, pocketing smoothly and then drilling a shot. I didn't know any better.

Nowadays, i offer up a skill level spot to my apa friends. Before, it was more of a way to practice, but now it's become a bait to get them to play, usually for 5 or 10. I was up on a 4, him playing as a 3, about 69 to 16, when he proceeded to get 9 in the last rack, including 3 or 4 banks in a row! He played the next set without a spot and lost 75-21. Phew.

Another time recently, a couple friends were at the bar to play a bit and show me their new Valley cues. I'm a local A and they're decent B players. I offer the 8 and one bites. Long story short, i finally lost a set when we split 2 with him getting the 5 or 6 out after the break and the breaks. I think i was up 50 and threw him 10 or 20 cuz he wanted to go grab a bite with someone.

An old hustler explained the difference to me not long ago between playing for money and gambling. Gambling is getting into a game with a toin-coss outcome. When you play for money, your job is to make the win more likely than the loss. I don't mind playing a losing game here or there, giving up a tough spot or playing an even game, but my wallet certainly isn't big on bleeding.

 

[curlyscues]

I may have misspoken in the "pull up when it's tied" thread where I said I thought the majority of az'ers either have, do, or would like to hustle someday.

For the purpose of this poll we will define "hustle" as hiding your true speed, hiding who you really are by disguise or other means, or saying or doing anything else that is not true in an attempt to give yourself any kind of an edge.

It will be a straightforward 2 option poll.

Thanks in advance for your vote and feel free to add your thoughts and comments in the thread.

best,
brian kc

i voted that i used to when i played all the time, but then again, i did get awful lucky a lot in the old days.

but i have a question about some games i played a bit more recently.

there were about 3 guys that were a bit annoying at times and i told one that he wasn't very good and i could beat him with the broom i was using to clean the room. he said no way, so i did. he came back 3 more times but couldn't quite get there.

the owner must have heard or by coincidence they took away my broom and replaced it with one with a metal handle that would hurt the balls.

so the next guy i told him i would beat him with a long handled squeegee and did on 3 occasions. (gotta watch out when playing with a squeegee, couple times when breaking the head was turned wrong and i punched myself in the kidney.)

and another guy once with a 1 iron. (couldn't hit it out of the fairway, but it wasn't bad on an 8')

ok, now the question was that hustling? i gave them weight, sort of.

M.C.

 

[bdorman]

I play only for fun...because if I played for money I'd be less than broke.

Since I just play with friends we leave money out of it. Cut-throat is fun when the lay of the table almost forces two players to gang up on one...add money to that and it becomes less fun.

 

[ridinda9]

didja ever watch "the Hustler"?

Very true but why lose anything if you can keep it close and beat the players you're suppose to in the right order? I see your point but why lose in the first place. Why not take everybody for every penny they have? Why pay tax??

"Just for that, I'm gonna beat you cold", and Fast Eddie beats him in 7 straight games, doesn't even let him shoot!

And Turtle Baker takes him in the back room and breaks his thumbs.

Paying the tax, and leaving them SMILING, can be the difference between walking out of the pool room and being carried out of the poolroom.
as Ron White once said:
"I don't know how many of them it would have taken to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use. . . . "


cover your expenses, don't get greedy. Leave 'em smilin', and you can come back and hit the same place again.Beat them cold, and you'll kill any future action there.
In the beef industry, we castrate all the males and slaughter them as soon as they reach full growth. You can only eat them once. But we let the females live, because we can milk them twice a day, every day.think about it. . . .

 

[poolguy4u]

Yes...I am a hustler. I start out playing for a dollar a game.

I don't tell people my real name and my look changes often.

Right now I look like Santa Claus but I'm not giving out any presents.



I don't usually win tournaments but will usually always finish in the money.

I always consider myself lucky and not skilled.:smile:

 

[Dopc]

Due to the "be honest" factor I had to vote yes.

I was young, poor and surrounded by easy marks. That was 15-20 years ago. Am I proud of it, absolutely not, am I ashamed by some of it, absolutely. Did it assist in feeding, clothing and sheltering me, absolutely.

Did I leave that life behind the first chance I got, you bet your ass I did and never looked back (got a real job outside of the poolhall/bar scene). I had become what I despised and it made me sick to look in the mirror.

I grew up surrounded by compulsive gamblers, seen every side of it. I know first hand the pain, fear of the unknown and feelings of abandonment that come hand in hand with gambling (and other related issues as well). If you think for a second you can do it and not affect anyone close to you (wife, children etc), you're lying to yourself and you believe it....!!!!!!!!!!
I have my own family now, I'd rather jump of a cliff than to subject them to even a moment of any of that nonsense.

With that said, I'm not talking about friendly dollar/drink games or the occasional grudge match with a fellow competitor for $50-100 or more if you have it to spare. I'm talking about the day-in/day-out gambler, the guy who has 2 grand in his pocket one day, and $3.50 in his pocket the next. Then can't understand why the old lady left with the kids and he's the one crying the blues how life has treated him so wrong. I lived it, all 97% bad and the 3% good, and it sucked being the child in that situation.

I'm not here to try and tell anyone how to live, this is just the side of it most never talk about. I don't judge or look down on anyone who chooses this lifestyle either, after all they have to choose their own paths and pay the price if/when it comes full circle.

Oh, and that guy that just got done telling you how he's knocked everyone in town off for all their cash and then asks you for $5 for a pack of cigarettes, he's lying to you and he's broke for a reason.

Dopc.

I know this is not going to be a popular post around here with all the barking and glorious stories and how everyone around here is the winner (and, I hope for everyones sake thats' the case). But there is a brutal other side of this coin, and I almost never hear anyone talk about it. So, I thought I'd be the one to tell it and catch all the flack for it for being the loser chump for which I had no choice of as a CHILD!

 

[backplaying]

A good hustler gets the money, and a great hustler gets it and makes you like it enough to play again. I think some people have winning confused with hustling. Just beating someone out of money when you had the best of it, doesn't make you a hustler. I can really only think of one young player, I consider a good hustler at this time. When I think of good hustlers, people like Jack Cooney and Johnny Ross come to mind.

 

[Maniac]

I know this is not going to be a popular post around here with all the barking and glorious stories and how everyone around here is the winner (and, I hope for everyones sake thats' the case). But there is a brutal other side of this coin, and I almost never hear anyone talk about it. So, I thought I'd be the one to tell it and catch all the flack for it for being the loser chump for which I had no choice of as a CHILD!

All sides/opinions need to be heard. Thanks for giving yours. There are people on here that do not think that hustling and gambling are the same thing, but I say: You can gamble without hustling, but you cannot hustle without gambling. So, if they are not the same thing then they're darn sure first cousins. In hustling, there is someone LOSING an asset (usually money). When it is money, there is no telling what that money is SUPPOSED to be used for. I've seen people lose their rent money, grocery money, basically their budgeted household funds that keep the roof over the FAMILY and food on the table. I know more than one person who has lost his/her (yes, one of them was a woman) family from gambling woes.

Now, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against gambling. People can spend their EXTRA money in any way they choose. I don't care about that. But what some people either don't realize or simply don't care is, that sometimes that wad you just "fleeced" off of that poor chump may be the very money his wife is sitting at home budgeting the family finances with. You just don't know. I really, really feel for the wife/husband whose spouse is gambling away their life's financial resources without any knowledge of it until it's too late.

This is the darker side of hustling/gambling, and why I'm not a big fan of it and refuse to glorify it.

Denial is a b*tch.

Maniac (probably going to catch some of Dopc's flames now :grin

 

[Badbeat13]

No

No straight out hustlin' for me, that shit will get you killed.

If I go to a strange place to gamble with people I don't know and people who don't know me, I'll shoot a little below my speed. I will let them see that I can run balls and racks, but I won't be baring down like I'm playing for a C note or a dime. This way they know that I can play a little and the only ones who wanna gamble are the guys who've got some game. You may also have a few people ask you what kind of spot they can get, which might be their hustle because some of those types could possibly beat you playing even.

My personal rules go kinda like this. Never go to bars to gamble, because you may have a hard time collecting your winnings or getting out of the parking lot with your winnings.
Go to pool halls and sports bars where there are regulars in there that show up for gambling on pool. If you go to places like this your chances of finding trouble are less. Most guys at a pool hall type setting pay when they lose and expect to be paid when they win, hence no problems.
Bars on the other hand, some drunk basterd will wantt to challenge you for $5 or $10 a game. He wants your money if somehow he wins, but you ain't getting shit from him as far as cash if he looses. He's gonna start telling you to piss off, I don't owe you shit, your a hustler, pull out a knife or a gun. He might even pull out a tire tool from the back of his pick-up truck (true story here folks, it actually happened to me).

No hustlin' for me, but I love to gamble on pool.

 

[ridinda9]

they may be good hustlers, but you'll never know a GREAT hustlers name. . .

A good hustler gets the money, and a great hustler gets it and makes you like it enough to play again. I think some people have winning confused with hustling. Just beating someone out of money when you had the best of it, doesn't make you a hustler. I can really only think of one young player, I consider a good hustler at this time. When I think of good hustlers, people like Jack Cooney and Johnny Ross come to mind.

Because with the absolute best hustlers, you'll never even realize they hustled you.

You'll just think you had a lot of fun and came up on the short side.

 

[ridinda9]

Badbeat, you gotta join some 'private fraternities'

I'm an Elk.
I'm a Moose.
I'm an Eagle.
I'm a Shriner.
I'm in the VFW.
I'm in the American Legion.
Because no matter which of those places you walk into, once you show your membership card "you're one of us", and that breaks a lot of ice.
Loosing $20 to 'a buddy' doesn't sting nearly as much.
And because I DO keep the stakes low, I don't have to worry that I'm taking (much) food off his families table.

Oh, and if you're up $2000 dollars one day, and borrowing $5 next week, you AIN'T a hustler- you're a gambler. A hustler knows to quit if the tide starts to turn, and move (quickly) to a different mark.
A gambler tries to chase it and recoup the loss, which never works.

 

[backplaying]

Because with the absolute best hustlers, you'll never even realize they hustled you.

You'll just think you had a lot of fun and came up on the short side.

Exactly. One of the most common things said about a great hustlers was, he would beat you and make you like it. Not claiming to have ever been a great hustler, but I have had the same people play me every time they seen me, for years, never won and never asked to a just.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

So, not exactly a runaway at 52 - 38 but it may mean that I didn't get it wrong when I said that most azers either have, do, or would like to hustle.

I consider myself to be a moral, highly principaled person, yet, I have done a little hustle here and there in my life. Nothing recent, or even close to, but I have.

I think I will start another poll asking whether we think hustling, as defined in my op, is sleazy or clever (or both).

Thanks for voting and commenting on this poll.

best,
brian kc

 

[peteypooldude]

I have hidden my speed and still do. I like to think of it as"playing to the occasion" I have to be careful now though because I am having trouble staying in gear. It use to be where you wouldn't see a players speed until the match up started . I wouldn't intentionally miss balls but I would play loose shape and shoot at everything warp speed. If you do this they will come, problem is I don't play enough now to beat anyone... Well almost anyone