Have you played with a hybrid shaft yet??
- Thread starter Mensabum
- Start date
Well I can tell you why my shaft isn't in anyone's bag. It's because they aren't technically on the market yet. If you remember, you had noticed a post of mine that showed my personal shaft which was a hybrid prototype and you asked me about it, to which I replied. They aren't on the market yet, I'm still finalizing some stuff, but if you want to send me a shaft I can convert it for you.I heard about these shafts on AZ and had to know more bcuz all I heard were good things. Couldn't understand why more players weren't using them.
I found and bought 2 shafts, one from Jaden, well known AZ member, the other from Vince Sangmeister, formerly of Black Boar. You may have read my comments about Vince's Shafts on other threads.
Both shafts played very well. I was quite surprised!! I'm not a big fan of CF and I may have secretly been hoping these hybrids wouldn't perform. Made me rethink my position on CF and shafts in general.
Imo, Vince's shaft played better than Jaden's, but Jaden's played well and was less expensive, although I did have to send my own own shaft to him for modification, so it balances out.
Jaden has been making these for quite some time and here's what I don't understand. As well as both of these shafts played, I can't help but wonder why they aren't in half the cue cases out there??
The shaft Vince made for me was the nuts!! This thing is a stone cold killer. It has the feedback I demand, consistent hit, miniscule deflection and there's no loss of power or CF noise on contact w/CB.
The CF section is longer than Jaden's, and Vince adds some goodies inside to improve the hit. Dampers, a proprietary ferrule material and ask him about the foam. All of this makes the front end of the shaft about as light as it can be. Just point and shoot. Jaden's shaft was also on the low end for deflection. Practically unnoticeable during normal play.
These guys are a couple of mad geniuses!! Thinking of ways to innovate and make this sport better.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot with either shaft, although Vince gets my final nod.
Check out these hybrids fellas!!! You won't be sorry!!!
Contact Vince @ 610-605-7318.
Contact Jaden @ 480-290-0274.
Tell em who sentcha.
You sent me the shaft and the rest is history. I appreciated the business and the kind words. Unofortunately, I didn't have a cue around that had the pin type you had so I couldn't test it either. The one I made you is also slightly different than the one's I make since it doesn't use my ferule or tip.
I didn't like sending it out untested so I can't attest to the hit, but that's all good. You seemed satisfied, which is all a manufacturer can ask for and converting that shaft for you lit a fire under me to finalize Ontarget Billiards and get some stuff to market, so I appreciate it. People can look forward to Ontarget Billiards to start coming on and if you wanna call to chat or want something special in the mean time, just let me know.
Not true, some Cyanoacrylate and polishing will do wonders to gouges in CF...
I hope this thread stays civil and doesn't turn into what most have been lately. Mud slinging contests.
I'm simply wondering why these aren't more prevalent, given how well they play.
Guys like Jaden and Vince should be 3 feet deep in orders. I don't get it.
Granted, CF performs or players wouldn't play with them. If they were to pick one of these up and play with it, I believe the difference in feedback and playability would open up a whole new can of preferences for the younger players. Open a few more eyes, as it were.
Glad to hear it Jaden!!
If I jumped the gun, forgive me. The way these played lit a fire and I had to let others know. I sincerely hope this hasn't caused you or anyone else problems. Not my intent.
Quite the opposite in fact.
Your track record in this game speaks for itself my friend.
I will add that had I realized Jaden was forced to make accomodations due to the pin in the shaft I sent him, 5/16-14, I would have listed them or acknowledged same in my original post.
Hello gents. So in response to the numerous posts on the subject if anyone has ANY questions about my product and what I'm trying to achieve by building a CUSTOM hybrid shaft my phone number is 610.605.7318 Please shoot me a text before you call though because I don't answer most calls due to the telemarketers and robo-calls. I live in Philadelphia and everyone is welcome to come by and have a beer or a coffee and hear my life story. Lol I don't know any of the other hybrid makers personally so I won't comment on their product nor will I compare my work to theirs or anyone else's for that matter. What purpose does that serve? That will not keep me from voicing my opinion on shafts I've owned and played with or worked on. That being said, I'm home or in my shop most evenings and the phone call is free. Be prepared though because brevity is not my strongest attribute. As for Mensabum all I can say is he's a stand-up guy and we collaborated intently on the shaft I built him and I look forward to building him a few more down the road. I consider him a good friend through several bijillion calls/text messages and questions and observations. So...... Have a terrific evening. I look forward to chatting with you.
Vince
Vince
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Paul_#_
Well-known member
This post is about hybrid shafts that have a CF top and a wood bottom. Little is known about these but players' seem to react to them in a similar fashion to that of shafts made of a combination of CF and wood.
The hybrid and the combination CF/wood shafts appear silly, wacky, and gimmicky. Still, players and companies like them. Companies like the shafts because the combination makes the shaft stronger, more consistent quality, and cheaper wood can be used. It appears most McDermott shafts are combination shafts (G-Core and I-series) or carbon fiber.
The weirdest combination shaft and that looks like an upside-down hybrid shaft is Cuelees EX Solid that has two types of wood near the tip with "internal reinforcement of . . . various wood species", and at the joint end a sandwich of carbon fiber rods sitting inside and outside the hollowed-out maple wood.
The wood dowel inside the hollow wood is replaced with a carbon fiber rod a few inches from the cue tip and continues to joint end. Nearer the joint, the wood core is encased with another carbon fiber rod to make the wood and CF sandwich.
Some swear by it. For example, an AZer wrote about EX Solid:
Then I'll guess it was the new cloth and dry, desert Vegas conditions then.I seemed to lose my draw with the CF shaft/s I've tried.
No. The stiffness of the shaft seemed to produce a dead feeling. I felt like I had to stroke harder believe it or not. Went to the AVID shaft...problem solved. Could have been a combination of several factors.
I'm sure my experience differs from others. I can only share my own views as it relates to CF.
Best of luck to you Vince.
I think I came out the
better in those exchanges.
I learned a helluva lot about how shafts play and what it takes to make a really good one.Thank you my friend.
I wish you all the best.
Some have said feedback is an antiquated norm, but there must be something to that bcuz every CF shaft manufacturer mentions feedback and how their dead stick has some.
"Just like wood," they all claim. "Excellent feedback".
It's my opinion that these younger players who use strictly CF cues and shafts simply haven't experienced feedback and/or what it contributes to the shot.
If more players were exposed to that 'antiquated norm', you might see a shift in how shafts are made, marketed and how long they maintain market share.
I hope hybrids are here to stay and I recommend one to any player looking for the best of both worlds!!
Uh oh!!! You're one of those old players that need to go away!!No. The stiffness of the shaft seemed to produce a dead feeling. I felt like I had to stroke harder believe it or not. Went to the AVID shaft...problem solved. Could have been a combination of several factors.
I'm sure my experience differs from others. I can only share my own views as it relates to CF.
Feedback?? Bah Humbug.
What I can tell members is this... I've played with the best CF shafts out there as well as wood and with the hybrids, I no longer avoid the shots that used to give me trouble. We all have a couple.I seemed to lose my draw with the CF shaft/s I've tried.
Full table draws while jacked up, those long thin cuts that deflection screws you on half the time.
I'm making shots now with the hybrids at a higher percentage than in the past.
To find an item in this game that's allowing me to improve at my age is something I never thought I would see.
I can't stress enough how much better these hybrids play. It's crazy.
I'm off my soapbox guys.
Thanks for reading my drivel.
Oops, I can't forget adding the Digiball to the mix. Sorry about that Nathan.
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dendweller
Well-known member
I'm confused about the word polishing in the context of cf. Everyone says you shouldn't sand cf because it exposes the fibers which you'd like to stay encapsulated in the resin they were made with but isn't polishing really sanding. If not, what's the difference. Is there a way to polish that doesn't expose fibers and potentially make the shaft shed?
But I'm only 55!Uh oh!!! You're one of those old players that need to go away!!
Feedback?? Bah Humbug.
Two things, epoxy resin is impregnated into the cf, and when you coat it with CA you're actually sanding or polishing the CA coating rather than the CF. The dangers arise if you break the structure of the carbon fibers themselves. Careful light sanding shouldn't damage them if you apply a coating of CA to it. the gouges are filled with CA prior to the sanding so you're not sanding the carbon fiber structure, just the CA.
If the CA isn't applied evenly, it can leave shiny spots but shouldn't damage the CF.
dendweller
Well-known member
So in your opinion, if you get a shaft and it takes a lot of cleaning to remove all the dust, do you think maybe they sanded too far?
Maybe. You really would have to sand down into the weave to damage the CF structure. Just getting some CF dust doesn't mean it's damaged necessarily. It also depends how the CF was impregnated and what weave it used.