Ah,
Just having a little fun Murray. :wink:
Rick
Just having a little fun Murray. :wink:
Rick
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Having some pins made
- Thread starter opiesbro
- Start date
I would heed KJ's advice and put a lot of thought into this before you go plunking down a bunch of cash. Making a bolt and making a precision pin are not the same thing. If a bolt is in tolerance and fits its good. The pin has to be precise on all dimensions and inter-related. I've never worked in a "Bolt shop" but I was a machinist for 14+ years. If you look at the lathes in the shop mostly likely they are all using Taps and Thread-Chasers. Neither guarantees concentricity.
If you get some of the pins from say Atlas you can see how they are made. I can just about guarantee they are done on a CNC lathe. One is by the undercut at the back thread and the second is the teet at the end opposite the center. These are done in one operation to ensure concentricity.
I have searched several times and I can NOT find Plug or Ring gauges so you would have to check them by first trigging out the dimensions then using thread wires. There is a guy on here named John Rocker, if I remember correctly his website has a pic showing the dimensions you'd need to figure out and check (although the pic was for Sanding Mandrels, same concept). Search for Rocket Cues. You are going to need to know things like minor and major Dia., Thread Class, Tolerances, types of metals (in Stainless Steel there is a wide range and yes the type does make a difference), will they need to be passivated, Electro-polishing, etc..
Make sure you know exactly what you're doing before moving forward.
We are all looking for find things cheaper. But, there have been several people on here that have taken a financial bath (not the mention the public ridicule) making/selling things without fully understanding what all is involved and how to verify the final product. If you do move forward I'd be interested in 3/8-10 and 5/16-14 pins.
Just a final warning, if you do not heed the advice given and just plunge forward, do not be surprised when people want their money back because the product is not up to par and you're sitting on a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff you can't sell.
It is not rocket science (no pun intended) and not that hard if you know what you are doing. Do your research. Know exactly what the final product should look like AND how to inspect them.
lol, maybe I should have made myself clearer.
I've been making cues for 25+ years. However, I do not make American pool cues, nor am I familiar with your particular joints, methods, and preferences.
Furthermore, I have made and designed many of my own joints over the years. In fact, I would hazard a guess I have a great deal more experience than most of the posters on here when it comes to joint design and manufacture.
I know exactly how to fit, or at least how I would choose to fit, any number of joints.
I am simply asking for a quick education on what you guys as makers and players prefer, what you look for and why, what particular pins are most popular and the reasons why etc..
To the op, I would say if you can get it done cheaply at work, do it. Cnc set up and volume production make manufacture impossible for the majority of part time cue maker/hobbyists. You have an opportunity to make exactly what you want without the usual expense. Take advantage of it
One final question, if anyone would like to help - what is the most popular cue joint used on american pool cues? I don't mean the most common on mass produced models, I mean is there a general consensus amongst accomplished players as to the most preferred type/style of joint?
Thank you and apologies for becoming more involved in this thread than I intended.
lol, maybe I should have made myself clearer.
I've been making cues for 25+ years. However, I do not make American pool cues, nor am I familiar with your particular joints, methods, and preferences.
Furthermore, I have made and designed many of my own joints over the years. In fact, I would hazard a guess I have a great deal more experience than most of the posters on here when it comes to joint design and manufacture.
I know exactly how to fit, or at least how I would choose to fit, any number of joints.
I am simply asking for a quick education on what you guys as makers and players prefer, what you look for and why, what particular pins are most popular and the reasons why etc..
To the op, I would say if you can get it done cheaply at work, do it. Cnc set up and volume production make manufacture impossible for the majority of part time cue maker/hobbyists. You have an opportunity to make exactly what you want without the usual expense. Take advantage of it
One final question, if anyone would like to help - what is the most popular cue joint used on american pool cues? I don't mean the most common on mass produced models, I mean is there a general consensus amongst accomplished players as to the most preferred type/style of joint?
Thank you and apologies for becoming more involved in this thread than I intended.
I don't think there is a general consensus but 3/8-10 and 5/16-14 seem to be the most common. 5/16-18 is also very common since you can buy the taps and threaded rod anywhere.
My personal preference is Uni-Loc but I have no plans to use it in my cues.
Here is a link to the different makers and the pin types they use.
http://www.predatorcues.com/images/available_joints.pdf
And then there's the oddballs, like Ray Schuler's joint. Early Samsara was similar. Can't forget the boat anchor that Schmelke uses. And the list goes on.
Thank you very much for the info and link. The start of my u.s.a. joint education (I'm sure there's a joke there) :grin:
I assume the 10 and 14 refer to threads per inch?
May I ask, if your preference is uni-loc why would you not use in your own cues?
The most popular joint screw today is the radial pin.
Yes, You assumed correctly, the 10 and 14 stand for the TPI. I've used 5/16-18 and 5/16-14 in a few cues, as well as uniloc, but I mostly only use 3/8-10 pins now. Everyone has their own preferences though.
The parts are expensive and I'd have to buy the tooling as well. Never know though, one day I could decide to switch but it won't be any time soon.
You haven't had to fight to get the shaft off yet....
As with everything, there are drawbacks. My buddy got one on his new duffern and it took both of us to take it apart, not just once but twice now. Then he has had it loosen and come apart also during a match....I'll just stick to my 3/8x10.... it works for me.
Dave
The one that screws straight into wood?
You haven't had to fight to get the shaft off yet....
As with everything, there are drawbacks. My buddy got one on his new duffern and it took both of us to take it apart, not just once but twice now. Then he has had it loosen and come apart also during a match....I'll just stick to my 3/8x10.... it works for me.
Dave
As above, the one that screws into wood?
I can only see issues with this. Wood expands and contracts.
I would guess it must surely cause problems like these for many people?
Uni-loc
Uni-loc corporation makes 2 main kinds of joint pins. They make the Uni-loc, which is a family of similar metal to metal quick release joint screws and female inserts. The second is the Uni-loc Radial, which is metal to wood. Joey was referring to the Uni-loc Radial. It's my favorite too.
Dave was referring to the quick release one, which sometimes sticks together.
By the way, I refer to the Uni-loc brand Radial because there are similar, but not compatible, joint screws made in Asia and elsewhere. Most people prefer the Uni-loc version.
Uni-loc corporation makes 2 main kinds of joint pins. They make the Uni-loc, which is a family of similar metal to metal quick release joint screws and female inserts. The second is the Uni-loc Radial, which is metal to wood. Joey was referring to the Uni-loc Radial. It's my favorite too.
Dave was referring to the quick release one, which sometimes sticks together.
By the way, I refer to the Uni-loc brand Radial because there are similar, but not compatible, joint screws made in Asia and elsewhere. Most people prefer the Uni-loc version.
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Early Samsara's were 5/16X18 with a thin walled pilot. Schulers, .302X14 with a different insert for the shaft because the joint screw doesn't stick out that much. Similar to some Paradise cues I have seen. I can't think of his name right now but someone had some brass plugs made with a 9/16" o.d. head and the head was 3/8" long to accommodate these odd balls.
You haven't had to fight to get the shaft off yet....
As with everything, there are drawbacks. My buddy got one on his new duffern and it took both of us to take it apart, not just once but twice now. Then he has had it loosen and come apart also during a match....I'll just stick to my 3/8x10.... it works for me.
Dave
I tell all of my customers this, Once a month, they should take a cue tip with finger nail polish remover on it and swirl it around the inside of the brass insert on the uni-loc. This will keep it clean and prevent it from locking up. Most houses have both Q-tips and nail polish remover. OR, they can pay me 30 to unlock it cause they are lazy. Most common reasons for it locking twice, Dirty again and, or, the burr was not removed when it froze the first time.
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3/8X10, Radial, 5/16X14 and uni-loc are all neck and neck.
There might be one or two bastard sizes here.
This is from one of my old posts,
9/32X18 Jackson cues), 5/16X18 (Numerous makers), .298X14 (Mali),
.302X14 (It's George, Schuler, Paradise), 5/16X13 (One model by Brunswick),
5/16X14 (Numerous), 5/16X14 acme (Josswest and Michael Webb),
5/16 max (PFD). radial, Uni Loc, Radial ball screw, 3/8X8 acme (Guessing Wes Hunter), 3/8X8 standard (Certain Harvey Martins),
3/8X10acme (Tim Scruggs and Mike Gulyassy, 3/8X10 standard, 3/8X11 (Southwest, Murray Tucker, and a few more)
3/8X11.5 (Undersized by Blud), 3/8X12 (Tad), 3/8X14 (Bender and Omega),
3/8X14 undersized for Cuetec, 3/8X16, 7/16X10 (Joe Barringer), 7/16X11 modified, (Cog),
1/2X8 wood thread by a few, 1/2X13 Dufferin joint, Schmelke joint. Probably a few more,
Please note*
When ordering a cue with what you think is an odd sized screw that you or your repair guy doesn't have, Ask for an extra set of joint protectors because something is better than nothing.
This is from one of my old posts,
9/32X18 Jackson cues), 5/16X18 (Numerous makers), .298X14 (Mali),
.302X14 (It's George, Schuler, Paradise), 5/16X13 (One model by Brunswick),
5/16X14 (Numerous), 5/16X14 acme (Josswest and Michael Webb),
5/16 max (PFD). radial, Uni Loc, Radial ball screw, 3/8X8 acme (Guessing Wes Hunter), 3/8X8 standard (Certain Harvey Martins),
3/8X10acme (Tim Scruggs and Mike Gulyassy, 3/8X10 standard, 3/8X11 (Southwest, Murray Tucker, and a few more)
3/8X11.5 (Undersized by Blud), 3/8X12 (Tad), 3/8X14 (Bender and Omega),
3/8X14 undersized for Cuetec, 3/8X16, 7/16X10 (Joe Barringer), 7/16X11 modified, (Cog),
1/2X8 wood thread by a few, 1/2X13 Dufferin joint, Schmelke joint. Probably a few more,
Please note*
When ordering a cue with what you think is an odd sized screw that you or your repair guy doesn't have, Ask for an extra set of joint protectors because something is better than nothing.
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