Helmstetter VS Adams VS other production cues

[justinb386]

I am looking for opinions of the quality and hit of Helmstetter cue VS Adams cues.

I see that Adams cues are more expensive, and I do not understand why.

Is it because they are of better quality, and do they hit any better (in any ones opinion)?

How does the quality of Helmstetter cues compare to other production cues makers (like Joss, Meucci, Mcdermott, and others).

Does anyone think they are in the same league as Adams Balabushka, or Joss?

I ordered a Helmstetter RH10 model (from the mid 90's), and paid $160 for it used.

I am wondering if anyone thinks it is of the same quality as the older Helmstetter cues (that are much more valuable, and collectible).

I have a feeling that there is not much demand for Helmstetter cues (for some reason), because I never see them sell for much on ebay (and the new high dollar Helmstetter cues never sell).

I hope to receive some replies on opinions of how Helmstetter cues compare to the nice Adams line of cues, and other production cues.

I have never hit with a Helmstetter cue, so I am worried that I will not like it.

I always used Meucci, Joss, and many other cues in the past (but have not hit with a Helmstetter cue yet).

Here is a picture of the Helmstetter cue I purchased.

 

[Cuebuddy]

I consider the two lines very closely related and have considered that the Helmstetter line to be the higher end cue. Richard Helmstetter has been around for along time and god only knows how many cues his companies have made.

Yes I'm sure the older ones are becoming collectible now but for the most part these two lines of cues have been mid range production and will not become particularly valuable in the near future.

As far as the hit... I think that the Helmstetter cues hit well and some hit as good as any production cue I have used.

Many of the designs of RH cues are timeless.

 

[measureman]

If the cue you bought is straight and has a good tip it will play as good or close to any production cue made.
Also its a good looking old school design.It should hit very close to the Joss type hit.
Most Adam cues are made in Japan which makes them more expensive then similar cues made in China.
They do have a few models made in China,they sell for around a $100.00.

 

[TX Poolnut]

I have one of the Balabushka Adams cues.

I like it, but it does give off that familiar "tink" sound that some cheap cues give off. Nevertheless, it hits straight and true and I can load plenty of english, if I feel the need. I have no experience with Helmstetter cues.

 

[buska95]

Dick helmstter owned or maybe still owns both adams and helmsetter. You all may also know him from his other claim to fame He is the designer of the big bertha from calloway golf. Both of those cue lines hit solidly and are good cues for the money. Every cue from ever Cuemaker Hits a little different, so you must find what you like then make it an extension of your arm to use it well. Meucci flex the most tip stays on the ball longer. McDermott flexes a little less Both adams and helmsetter are a little stiffer.
:wink:

 

[ridewiththewind]

The Adam, Helmstetter, and George Balabushka lines are all made in the same facility in Japan. Been making solid playing cues for a long time now. I have an old battle-scarred wrapless full splice Helmstetter 86-06 with a wonky shaft that I will still not part with, simply because it plays quite well. When I can get out to the local shoots and tournies, I will loan it out occasionally...problem is, the player using it typically doesn't want to return it...LoL.

I like the older Adam and Helmstetter cues....they have impressed me more than the Vikings and McDermotts I have played with, and I like the overall designs better, for the most part. It's a shame their value isn't as high as their US-made counterparts.

Lisa

 

[justinb386]

Thank you everyone for the helpful (interesting) information. The Helmstetter cue that I purchased retailed for $380, but other Helmstetter cues that do not look much different retailed for 2 times that price, so I am thinking that the Helmstetter cue that I purchased must not be as good of quality as the Helmstetter cues that retailed for the $700 range. I will just be happy if I am satisfied with the hit of the Helmstetter cue. I guess that I can always change shafts if I am not happy with the hit (or the taper of the shaft). I always liked a nice long taper in the shaft. Thank you again for your replies.

 

[Chopdoc]

As far as I am concerned the Adam, Balabushka, Helmstetter, etc cues are the same. Same factory, same construction in general. Same with other brands they have made. I don't know the current ones, but the old ones were pretty darn good.

Comparing it with a JOSS? Hands down the JOSS. McDermott? Hands down the McDermott. Sort of on par with some of the Vikings, but Viking made so many different types of cues with various joints it is not possible to categorize them in one statement. But I am speaking of cues at least 20 years old. I own examples of all of them. I don't know their modern permutations, though I do own a couple of more recent examples of JOSS.

So...my information and experience may be obsolete.

I like Adam cues, I wish to own more classic examples.

 

[justinb386]

I would really like to know why some of the other lines of Helmstetter cues retailed for 2 times the price of the RH 10 model (the cue in my picture). I guess the materials used must have been much better. I had a Viking cue (that did not look nearly as nice as the Helmstetter cue in my picture) that retailed for around $600 ($580 to be exact). Thanks for all of the helpful information.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Sometimes cues cost more due to the labor involved to make them and materials that are more expensive. A plain jane cue made from straight grain maple will cost very little compared to a cue made of snakewood. All other things being equal, a cue with 'short splice' points will cost less than a full splice cue.

 

[C.Milian]

My schon was the most consistent cue I've ever played with. I have a custom right now that I use to beat up before moving on to a real cue. From what I remember the original tip on the cue was so good I never had to replace it after many years. The shaft was so consistent....I don't what to talk about it any more.

 

[justinb386]

All of the points on my Helmstetter cue are very uneven. Does that hurt the value of the cue, or did most of the Helmstetter cues have uneven points? I really hate uneven points, and the points are so uneven that it makes me sick.

 

[measureman]

All of the points on my Helmstetter cue are very uneven. Does that hurt the value of the cue, or did most of the Helmstetter cues have uneven points? I really hate uneven points, and the points are so uneven that it makes me sick.

A little touch up with a sharpie and you will be fine.
It's a production cue-don't look at it too closely.
I have seen custom cues with un even points. Cues are made by humans-not stamped out.
If it really bothers you, send it to me.

 

[acedonkeyace]

I am the person who was also bidding on this Helmstetter on E-bay.

What I wanted to tell you is first, this is not an RC-10 or RH-10, like it was stated as being. This cue is actually a model 97 cue and it is a model 97-10. Some of the differences are the silver is double lined not single lined like the 10 series was. These are nice cues and for some reason the buying world has a stigma against Japanese made items, even though in the 1980's and 1990's the best mass producers of the world were off course the Japanese, you remeber the TQM--Total Quality Management that Japan was following during these years. What USA finally got on board with in the 1990's and the 2000's.

The points you can't be picky with, you got the cue for under $200.00 and as long as mechanically it is sound, be happy that you got a nice 8-pointer with nice butt work for the price you paid.

If you do a search on my name 'acedonkeyace' michael kennedy, you will find that I sold this exact cue about 8 months ago and I sold it for, $150.00.

You might find the perfect buyer for your cue and get more, but that is about the market.

Remember, the retail in 1997 was, $450.00 which means the wholesaler could buy it new for $225.00 and after 15 years since these are production cues, most go down in value not up, these are not custom cues made in limited numbers.

So if you like the cue, be happy that you got a cue that was made with high end production techniques and the looks are still in style and at the same time has vintage looks to it.

Hope this helps a little bit,

If you have any other questions I can help you with, PM me or, e-mail me @
michaelkennedy_1@yahoo.com

Mike 'acedonkeyace' Kennedy

Happy Holidays:thumbup:

 

[cuesblues]

I really hate uneven points, and the points are so uneven that it makes me sick.

I wouldn't play with a cue that makes me sick.
There are enough issues with my mental game, and it's hard to continually worry that I may puke, if I notice uneven points on my cue.

 

[justinb386]

lol, I did not mean that the points literally made me sick. I just never seen such uneven points on a cue. It was really surprising how uneven all of the points were (up to around an inch in difference). They must have really made some big mistakes when they built that cue (unless all of the production models were that bad).

 

[Chopdoc]

lol, I did not mean that the points literally made me sick. I just never seen such uneven points on a cue. It was really surprising how uneven all of the points were (up to around an inch in difference). They must have really made some big mistakes when they built that cue (unless all of the production models were that bad).

Actually they have made some incredible full splice cues of the level one couldn't even come close to in a domestic cue...for the price...and they were very well executed. Some of them have been featured in the gallery section within the last few months.


I would say that such uneven points are the exception for an Adam...not the rule.

I have two "earlier" Adam cues (late seventies/early eighties). The points are even and veneers very nice. Mine are great shooters.

Scroll though these posts:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=266707&highlight=adam

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=269870&highlight=adam

.

 

[manwon]

I am looking for opinions of the quality and hit of Helmstetter cue VS Adams cues.

I see that Adams cues are more expensive, and I do not understand why.

Is it because they are of better quality, and do they hit any better (in any ones opinion)?

How does the quality of Helmstetter cues compare to other production cues makers (like Joss, Meucci, Mcdermott, and others).

Does anyone think they are in the same league as Adams Balabushka, or Joss?

I ordered a Helmstetter RH10 model (from the mid 90's), and paid $160 for it used.

I am wondering if anyone thinks it is of the same quality as the older Helmstetter cues (that are much more valuable, and collectible).

I have a feeling that there is not much demand for Helmstetter cues (for some reason), because I never see them sell for much on ebay (and the new high dollar Helmstetter cues never sell).

I hope to receive some replies on opinions of how Helmstetter cues compare to the nice Adams line of cues, and other production cues.

I have never hit with a Helmstetter cue, so I am worried that I will not like it.

I always used Meucci, Joss, and many other cues in the past (but have not hit with a Helmstetter cue yet).

Here is a picture of the Helmstetter cue I purchased.

There is no difference as long as the cues are in the same price range, I mean how can there be they are made by the same people to the same standard.

Also they is a difference between new and old, I think that like with most production cues the older cues were build with better materials.

In my opinion Adam / Helmstetter cues are equal if not better than any other Production cues on the market in the last 40 years.

Oh and by the way, Adam / Helmstetter cues have never received the attention they deserve as collectible cues because they have always been considered imports because they were made in Japan. But, in my opinion they are equal in quality to any other production cues made in the 60's and 70's including Palmer Custom Cues. The only difference between Adam / Helmstetter and Palmer in my opinion is where they were made, as far as, the intricate designs splices and inlays the quality is certainly equal.

 

[johnqbs]

I have one of the Balabushka Adams cues.

I like it, but it does give off that familiar "tink" sound that some cheap cues give off. Nevertheless, it hits straight and true and I can load plenty of english, if I feel the need. I have no experience with Helmstetter cues.

I to had a balabuska, adam cue co. It was the GB-3 a great looking cue and played good. It had that tink sound, that I did not like at all. Not 100%sure but I think that the capped ferrule was the reason for the tink sound. I do know that a lot of cue makers do use the capped ferrule.
I still like the old school standard fiber through ferrule. As for me and my way of thinking a fiber ferrule has the best hit, feel and sound. I have an older m series Meucci cue that had a cracked ferrule, turned down the 3/8
tennon to 5/16 and installed the fiber ferrule with a triangle tip, Has the solid hit and feel with the sound it should have. JMO take care, john