Help with Break Pratice. Instructors please !

[Bluey2King]

Hello;
I have started working on my Break. I will develop a killer break but I need some help.
Background:
I bought a BreakRac from Charlie Bond a couple of weeks ago. I started banging away at it just to get the feel of it. I was using my break cue which is a regular cue with a phnolic tip about 18 oz guess I removed the weight bolt. I shoped for and bought a Break cue on Ebay a used Fury for $72. It is much heaver my guess 21 oz. I have had this cue for four days and I notice that I am not hitting the CB where I am aiming. I am using a Jim Rempee CB. I am hitting consistntly high right. At the beginning of my pratice I am off my a cue tip! As I work on my focus I get closer but I see a pattern of I am off to the right and lots of times high and right. If I get down in my stance and shoot like a regular shot there is a big improvement but I lose lots of power.
I am requesting some instruction tips, advice, on how to approach this training systematicly.
Last night I practiced for a couple of hours straight on this and the end I racked up some balls to shoot a game of gost 8 ball then 9ball my Break was OK but I noticed that my stroke had changed. I think from all that Hard Hitting for a couple of hours.
Thanks in advance to all you guys are Great.

 

[Johnnyt]

I would try backing off your speed until you are hitting where your aiming. Then slowly use a little more power until you keep missing your spot again. Back off a little and that's about as hard as your going to hit them. Remember every table breaks different and dirty balls kill good breakers. Johnnyt

 

[Blackjack]

I would try backing off your speed until you are hitting where your aiming. Then slowly use a little more power until you keep missing your spot again. Back off a little and that's about as hard as your going to hit them. Remember every table breaks different and dirty balls kill good breakers. Johnnyt

This is the same advice I give.

Try breaking at 50% of your total breaking power. Increase the power gradually until you find the speed that is getting the best results for you. You will be surprised at how much more accurate you will hit the target by not trying to blast the crap out of the balls.

My students are always amazed at how light they can break and still make a ball... consistently.

FWIW, I've posted this a thousand times, and I will probably post it a thousand more: Never sacrifice accuracy for power.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Not knowing where you are breaking from, or specifics as to how you address the cueball, I can only try to give you some general advice.

1. When you address the cueball, lower the level of your head and look to see if you are aiming at the true center of the cueball. It could be that you think you are addressing the cueball in the center but are actually not. Practice addressing the cue in the center then begin to raise your level.

2. keep your cue as level as you can when addressing the ball and following through.

3. When you get in line and address the cueball try focusing on hitting the target on the cueball. (the break is one of the only times I focus on the hit of the cueball and not the object ball) I will also be interested in reading other posts about this to see if this is the norm for others or I am doing something very different.

4. Take a lot of pace off of your break, you need to develop the correct aim, and sight mechanics first. After you begin hitting your target correctly (cueball in the center and object ball dead square) begin to add more speed to your break.

By doing this all progressively (adding speed and noting the results)you will find the point where you have max power and are still hitting everything square.

You don't need a king-kong break in 9 ball to be successful (though it helps sometimes) you can get a good spread, pocket balls and keep the cueball in the center of the table by hitting your target dead square with less power.

In my opinion a successful break is one that makes a ball, keeps the cueball in the center of the table.

Again it will be interesting to read other posters view on this subject.


<<In the time it took me to write my post two others beat beat me in posting.>>

Hello;
I have started working on my Break. I will develop a killer break but I need some help.
Background:
I bought a BreakRac from Charlie Bond a couple of weeks ago. I started banging away at it just to get the feel of it. I was using my break cue which is a regular cue with a phnolic tip about 18 oz guess I removed the weight bolt. I shoped for and bought a Break cue on Ebay a used Fury for $72. It is much heaver my guess 21 oz. I have had this cue for four days and I notice that I am not hitting the CB where I am aiming. I am using a Jim Rempee CB. I am hitting consistntly high right. At the beginning of my pratice I am off my a cue tip! As I work on my focus I get closer but I see a pattern of I am off to the right and lots of times high and right. If I get down in my stance and shoot like a regular shot there is a big improvement but I lose lots of power.
I am requesting some instruction tips, advice, on how to approach this training systematicly.
Last night I practiced for a couple of hours straight on this and the end I racked up some balls to shoot a game of gost 8 ball then 9ball my Break was OK but I noticed that my stroke had changed. I think from all that Hard Hitting for a couple of hours.
Thanks in advance to all you guys are Great.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I see a # of top players breaking with a descending blow low on the CB. Somehow, "their" CB stays in the middle of the table. I try this, and on a face on hit with the OB, "my" CB comes screaming back like a banschee in heat. Some guy was watching my break and said "look at that (semi-pro) guy break over there. See his cue bow downwards at impact?".

I'm working on my break with my new Poison and (as usual), and the more info I run across, the easier it is to become confused! I like what you wrote Tony_in_MD - it's straight forward - level cue stroke, middle of the CB, square into the OB with only the power you can consistantly control. Is there a slight majority consensus on Tony's approach?

 

[Jason Robichaud]

This was/is the biggest adjustment for me coming from snooker. The flow and arm/body movement wasn't there and when I tried the CB went everywhere. I had to work really hard on timing and the ability to have everything release on CB impact.

For me I had to change a few things.

Feet: I put my feet closer together (instead of shoulder width apart) and made a step forward with one leg. Something like being in a starter block. My weight is more forward on that leg. I do this to funnel movement straight toward the break line.

Hands: I moved my cue hand forward and made a stronger tighter bridge loop. I found moving my cue hand put my arm in a better power band range (if that makes any since) On my back stroke I don't go much past 90 degree and follow dropping my elbow to allow a longer stroke while keeping my cue on a straight line. My tighter bridge has little impact on friction and slowing of the cue. It helped keep the cue tip still and on path.

Body: I incorporated some movement. I start the stroke with a little movement back loading my rear leg and then start moving forward and standing up at same time while moving my weight to front leg. I am trying to push my self up at an angle and straight forward toward the line of cue path. At impact I am probably half way standing straight on my way to standing tall after impact.

Timing: I worked on putting all three changes above in proper sequence and releasing at impact. If I'm off power can be lower, CB line off, unwanted spin etc.

I have really worked hard lately breaking and it is starting to show. I have better CB control, more power and a better thought standing over the break. The balls are spreading better, making more and have better CB position.

Hope this helps.

 

[Balabushka]

In my experience, sometimes the 'macho' is what prevents good breaking. It was happening with me. I felt I MUST break with a BOOM. Wasn't working. No accuracy.
I now break like just a plain hard shot. 70%, not 110%. I stay down, follow thru, NO body jump.

Accuracy trumps BABOOM. :groucho:

 

[Gregg]

Your not breaking hard if you are not jumping six inches into the air, your rear leg kicks out and up. Also you MUST following through until you tip touches the head rail, cue ball must pop straight into the air, and land exactly where it meets the head ball. Also you have to pocket the one ball with a perfect 30 degree angle on the 2 ball to get to the 3, every time, no exceptions.

Good luck

BTW, my break is awful. So don't listen to me.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I am not an instructor....so take this for what it's worth.

I find that if I try to break hard I have a habit of letting my body sway back a bit on my backswing....this of course throws everything out of whack.

I find that if I focus on keeping my body still and moving only my grip arm back with a slow take away with a slight pause at the back I get a much more consitent and accurate break.

Also...for the reason above...when I set up for my break shot. Part of the routine includes positioning my back leg (with a slightly inward bent knee) and a larger majority of my weight on that leg compaired to my normal set up.

I don't don't take a huge backswing and I don't have a huge finish...thus I don't have the 25mph break...But when I am breaking right I do get a farily decent snap on the rack.

I should also point out that I break from the back of the cue (so to speak) once I am lined up...I try and feel like my grip hand is what is going toward the spot on the 1-ball that I want to hit....(which for me is the overhead light reflection no matter where I break from)..so basically I forget about the actual tip of the cue...

Actually....Just go watch SVB break....effortless power....

 

[Robert Raiford]

I am using a Jim Rempee CB...I see a pattern of I am off to the right and lots of times high and right.

First of all, kudos for using a Rempe CB. Most players never really analyze where they are actually contacting the CB and come up with all kinds of reasons for why they aren't achieving their intended behavior (a good draw, for example). Chalk marks are great feedback and will help you improve must faster. I play alot of 3-cushion where extreme spins/speeds are common, and the Rempe ball (and my custom carom equivalent) has definitely helped me refine my tip-ball contact.

I bet you are tensing your back hand on the final stroke as you add power, and that is causing your cue alignment to change right before you strike the cue ball. The natural tendency is to grip the cue harder, which can cause the wrist to twist and also involve more fingers than your normal stroke as more muscles get recruited. If you're shooting right-handed, you could be twisting your wrist in towards your body, which would cause the cue butt to move to the left and the tip to move to the right. If you're lefty, your wrist is probably twisting up/out instead. As you start to involve the bigger muscles in your shoulder, it causes the butt of your cue to drop and your tip to raise.

I've found several things to be helpful for high-speed shots like the break in pool:

1) Start going to the gym if you aren't already. More strength in reserve gives you more control at higher speeds since you're farther from your limit.

2) Concentrate on relaxing your wrist and only tensing the upper arm muscles involved in launching the cue forward. There's only so far you can do this thanks to involuntary recruitment of surrounding muscles as strength demands increase.

3) Experiment with a pendulum stroke. One argument for adopting it is that there are fewer moving parts, and therefore fewer failure points when the system is stressed due to high power, fatigue, or time off from the game. A "pure" pendulum has no shoulder movement and involves minimal fingers holding the cue.

4) Before breaking, take a few deliberate high-speed practice strokes that will tense your muscles similarly to the actual break stroke. Pay careful attention to where your tip ends up and final stick alignment vs where it was aimed at the cue ball. Adjust your entire body until the final tensed alignment is where you're hoping to hit the ball. It would be nice to have perfect technique at any speed, but this is a practical way to help make up for stroke idiosyncrasies in actual play.

Additionally, go buy Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" DVD so you'll have a clearer idea of what you are trying to accomplish on the break. The DVD is definitely better than the book (which is reproduced in Bond's book). 9-ball breaking isn't nearly as much about power as 10-ball or 8-ball.

Robert

 

[grindz]

There was another breaking thread on here that I saw recently. It had a great video attached and broke things down individually to each specific part. I'm not sure what it was labeled though.

td

 

[pooltchr]

FWIW, I've posted this a thousand times, and I will probably post it a thousand more: Never sacrifice accuracy for power.

Post it 1,000 more! Of all the advice that is given, when it comes to breaking, this should be carved in stone! Players want to control every shot they make, but for some reason, think a powerful out-of-control break shot is going to improve their break.
I would give you a rep for that one, but it seems I need to spread the wealth a little bit! Oh well, it's the thought that counts, right???
Steve

 

[Bluey2King]

Updte on Breaking

Hello to all:

Thanks for all the good comments and advice. I am still a work in progress..*L.
Last leauge night I just played 8 ball. ( Breaking question was aimed at 9 ball) anyway I played OK but got down 0-3 in the third game my oponet broke and ran five balls. I ran all my balls and hosed up my shape on the eight, which I missed and was a easy 1,2,3 for him. Now he is on the hill breaks and runs a few. I ran the table which had two sets of my balls tied up and this time I did NOT mess up on my 8 ball shape. (this not normal for me to run this well) Now the score is 3-1 and I get to Break I figure might as well go for the 8 ball Break, I did and BAM the 8 gets kicked right into the side pocket!! Now 3-2 and I feel a lot better about life..*S. I break get three balls and my choice I run a couple and play a safety. That worked so well I do belive that he got frustrated by not getting a chance to run. I win this game! 3-3 hill, hill and I am Breaking I take the time to think if I wnt to go for the 8 ball break or a more controled break and just try to win. I decide on the 8 ball break same as last time from the right side I am right handed I hit the second ball solid but not full force...BAM..same thing the 8 gets kicked in the right side pocket..!!! I win
I was so upset about my break pratice, and look what can happen it turned out to be the strong part for the night. Now I know that it was LUCKY too. It sure felt GREAT to steal a victory from the jaws of defeat!
Back to my pratice!! I have noticed how muscel memory is embedded in the mind. I had the hardest time hitting the CB softer. I would say to myself this time hit it easier and BAM I would hit it the same again and again. Now I have it to about 50% of what I was doing before my accuracy is much better!
That is on the BreakRac when I rack up the balls (9ball) I am making a ball I am keeping the CB above the foot string I am not parking it in the middle yet. (I will)
One more note on what I have found about my break I ws not following thru I was for lack of the proper term punching the CB. Now I am trying to be accurate and follow thru and HIT the 1ball dead on!!! I like to break 9ball from the left side 3" off the long rail.

Thanks again for all the input
Bluey2King

 

[Cameron Smith]

I see a # of top players breaking with a descending blow low on the CB. Somehow, "their" CB stays in the middle of the table. I try this, and on a face on hit with the OB, "my" CB comes screaming back like a banschee in heat. Some guy was watching my break and said "look at that (semi-pro) guy break over there. See his cue bow downwards at impact?".
QUOTE]

They actually aren't hitting the bottom of the ball. Pros who do that are compensating as they tend to hit higher than they were aiming (on the break shot).

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

shaft bowing on break due to impact or pushing down?

I see a # of top players breaking with a descending blow low on the CB. Somehow, "their" CB stays in the middle of the table. I try this, and on a face on hit with the OB, "my" CB comes screaming back like a banschee in heat. Some guy was watching my break and said "look at that (semi-pro) guy break over there. See his cue bow downwards at impact?".
QUOTE]

They actually aren't hitting the bottom of the ball. Pros who do that are compensating as they tend to hit higher than they were aiming (on the break shot).

Thanks for responding Cameron. "Go watch the pro's" they all say to inquiring minds. So I did. Seems like (on the break) all were pile driving into the bottom of the CB, but who can see the impact point when their break cue is traveling at the speed of light??? You just dispelled a huge conflict Cameron - I just could not reconcile what I read (center of CB) and what I saw (low CB aim with a huge bow in the shaft).

Which leads me to ask about one more breaking possible "trick on the eye". The huge downward parabolic bow I see some guys generate on the break - are they creating the bow because they actually push the shaft down onto the cloth (IE. not because of impact with a gumby-flex shaft)????

 

[Cornerman]

Thanks for responding Cameron. "Go watch the pro's" they all say to inquiring minds. So I did. Seems like (on the break) all were pile driving into the bottom of the CB, but who can see the impact point when their break cue is traveling at the speed of light??? You just dispelled a huge conflict Cameron - I just could not reconcile what I read (center of CB) and what I saw (low CB aim with a huge bow in the shaft).

You can either pause the videos, or if you are able, check the chalk mark on the cueball. You'll see where the cueball is hit. Depends on the breaker whether it's hit at center, slightly above center or (reportedly) slightly below center. But, if they've squatted the cueball, it's never hit at that extreme low that they aim at.

Which leads me to ask about one more breaking possible "trick on the eye". The huge downward parabolic bow I see some guys generate on the break - are they creating the bow because they actually push the shaft down onto the cloth (IE. not because of impact with a gumby-flex shaft)????

It's generally due to driving the shaft into the cloth on follow through. Every (most every?) top breaker does this. Some will hold their bridge down which ends up really exaggerating the bow. Some will open up their bridge hand quickly so the cue stick will come up in the air. But, on slow motion, you'll see that even those that raise the stick still drive it into the cloth, if for only a few moments.

Fred

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Discovery Channel's Mythbusters...

got Nuthin' on AZ Posters! Another Urban Myth exposed!

Thanks Fred and friends.

Matt

You can either pause the videos, or if you are able, check the chalk mark on the cueball. You'll see where the cueball is hit. Depends on the breaker whether it's hit at center, slightly above center or (reportedly) slightly below center. But, if they've squatted the cueball, it's never hit at that extreme low that they aim at.

It's generally due to driving the shaft into the cloth on follow through. Every (most every?) top breaker does this. Some will hold their bridge down which ends up really exaggerating the bow. Some will open up their bridge hand quickly so the cue stick will come up in the air. But, on slow motion, you'll see that even those that raise the stick still drive it into the cloth, if for only a few moments.

Fred

 

[TSW]

I agree with the prior posters who said to slow down your break. Think of it as a firm shot into the center of the 1-ball, and then gradually increase the speed without losing accuracy.

Once you get your accuracy down and want to work on power, check out AZ's own Colin Colenso and his power breaking video. Lights-out breaking there. There may be a better quality video available, but this is the link I have bookmarked: http://www.cue-tv.com/blog/_archives/2006/10/12/2410328.html

 

[Robert Raiford]

I like to break 9ball from the left side 3" off the long rail.

If you are breaking in 9-ball from a particular spot all the time instead of reading the rack to decide where to break from and at what speed, then you definitely need to check out Joe Tucker's "Racking Secrets" DVDs! You will never look at a rack of 9-ball the same way again

Robert

 

[JamisonNeu]

I think I can help. I had that issue for five years. Every one said hit it softer I said no I will just keep scratching till I get it right.

You said you hit high left every time...then start aiming low right the amount you are going to hit from center and watch what happens.

If I hit the cue as hard as I can (27-31 mph) then I have to aim the tip at the cue ball low right about a inch. Then I am 95% to hit it center... I call this my "Natural Stroke."

It is the same as a pitcher that throws a fastball. Some of them aim ten ft in front of the mound...this is where I got the idea. I started looking into other sports ie bowling not every player aims his ball at the same board. In football some kickers aim left twenty yards and perfect kick every time. Why fight your own body's tendancy's???

My method for teaching this is to place a sticket note on the table. stick it to the table bend it up so you can hit it with your tip. Then place a dot on the paper near center ball. Try and hit the dot as hard as you can. You will find that you almost always have the same results. Well that is great!!!This means you can work with it. You have finally found something consistant...

All you have to do is think ahead. We know your going to hit high left you said so yourself. Prepare for it... By aiming at a different place on the ball you can get close to center, if not dead nuts center, without losing the speed of stroke. Most importantly remember every day is going to be a hair different. You must find the spot to aim at every day.

I only read your post I am sure all the advise you have been given is solid advise and workks for many people. I am only trying to tell you what works for me.

Jamison